andrethx Posted July 14, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2015 André I wish you have asked me about brakes before ordering those parts. 306 GTI6 front brakes are cheap now days. i absolutely plan to have that conversation with you. i just wanted to get better brakes in the short term, long term i would like to upgrade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted July 15, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2015 recently, i've had a problem with my 405 -- a few minutes after starting it, the engine will cut out. this happens whether the car is sitting still or moving on a crowded freeway at 60mph/100kph (ask me how i know ); the car would restart after a few minutes and cut out again later. i did a bit of online research and examined the engine and i determined that i have a bad socket on the ntc sensor. it's this sensor, on the cooling manifold on the left side (driver's side) of the engine just in front of the distributor: when i had met with savo a few weeks back, he had told me that the wiring on my ntc sensor was bad. close examination showed that part of the edge of the connector had broken off and the spring wire had consequently fallen off, so the connector no longer had a lock on the leads on the sensor -- it was just sitting loosely on the leads of the sensor, and any strong bump to the car would break the connection. i was able to exactly replicate the engine cutting out by disconnecting the connector by hand. here are some photos of the connector: why did this just start happening now? i can only guess that my recent steam cleaning exacerbated an existing problem. fortunately, this connector (bosch/AMP 1237000036) is available so i have ordered a new one to replace the bad one. i'm going to replace the sensor at the same time with a NOS peugeot unit. if you look at the pictures, you can see that the a previous owner zip-tied the wires leading to the sensor such that it tore the rubber boot leading to the connector. this doesn't appear to have broken the wires, but i'm going to add a bit of slack to this when i replace the connector. also -- it wouldn't be an andré build without new pedal covers. got in new covers for the brake & clutch pedals, the cover for the accelerator pedal is on order. yes, i need to vacuum my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2015 i started working on the socket for the ntc sensor and i noticed that the socket for the other temp sensor in the coolant manifold (item #9 in the parts diagram, above) had been changed at some point in the past and it wasn't done very well...new wire had been spliced in with crimp connectors and the whole mess had been wrapped in electrical tape that was coming off. so i ordered another socket repair kit (the two connectors are the same) and postponed the repair. the new socket came in yesterday so i spent a bit of time this morning working on this. here are the new sockets...it's actually a bmw part, they use the same connector: and here's what comes in the bag: it was hard to photograph the repair to the lower connector, but here's the final result. it works great! the upper connector was much more accessible so i was able to photograph that repair easily. i unwrapped the electrical tape and cleaned the sticky, nasty black adhesive residue (there was a lot) with some IPA. here's the old connector: i clipped off the old red connector; the crimp connections were very solid so i decided to cover them in shrink tubing for extra security: i put some larger shrink tubing on the wires and put the boot on with the big end flipped over (so i'd have some slack to work with): then i stripped the ends of the wire, crimped the terminals on and snapped them into the back of the socket, flipped the boot around and i was done. this connector also worked great! andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 8, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 8, 2015 i spent a bit of time this morning on my car....as i've mentioned in the past, a previous owner had the car repainted in the original color (alpine white or blanc meije). the paint job looks pretty good, except that the painters didn't mask things off very well and there are lots of areas of overspray on the car. one area that i've been wanting to tackle is the door seals. on the 405, there is a smooth rubber gasket that runs along the top of the door frames; on my car, that was clean of overspray so it was either masked or subsequently cleaned with good results. underneath that, though, there is a foamed rubber gasket that had some white overspray on it. the gasket itself if starting to show wear in the usual places, so i'd ultimately like to replace it but i haven't found any replacement pieces yet so i have been looking for ways to clean this. i finally found a method that works on detailingbliss.com, a detailers' forum that koll told us about a few years ago. the method involves lacquer thinner and scotchbrite pads. incidentally, the "show and shine" and "professional detailers' studio" sections are great if you like looking at pictures of clean cars.... anyway, i got started this morning. the whole thing took about an hour, it wasn't difficult. the only tricky thing was keeping the pad saturated enough to work but not so dripping wet that i got lacquer thinner inside my car. here are a couple of before pics, it's hard to see because it is so sunny today here in LA: and here's an after photo: andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted August 9, 2015 Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 Yeah good work! I hate overspray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 9, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2015 thanks mike. looking at these pictures, i realize that they are terrible. i'll try to find some better pictures that show the overspray better (and take some new ones to show the "after" better as well. ) from what i can tell from my research, NOS door gaskets for the 405 are NLA. the french owners generally replace their busted gaskets (joints) with good-condition used pieces or rubber bought by the meter. unlike the 505, the 405 door gaskets don't have that interior-colored u-channel attached to it, so using off-the-shelf rubber is feasible. in fact, as i was cleaning my door gaskets yesterday, i noticed that it was bunched up around the corners so it wouldn't surprise me if the 405 door gaskets were applied at the factor off of a big roll. so now i need to figure out the profile of the door gaskets and source it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted August 11, 2015 Report Share Posted August 11, 2015 Stock ones wern't out of a big roll, the right and the left are distinct items: http://www.miamistu.co.uk/pug/GB/405F/9/90F01A.HTM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 21, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 well, the starting/stalling problem that i thought was fixed, is not fixed; after a good stretch of the car running reliably, it is having problems again. so it wasn't the sensor connections at all. after the engine stalls, or sometimes when i try to start it from cold, it cranks ferociously but it won't start; with the key turned on, i can hear the fuel pump going so i'm thinking it's not the fuel pump or the pump relay. by the way, back when i thought the problem was with the ntc sensor, i got a NOS replacement (just need a new copper washer for it) and i also got a couple of used/known-good relays for the fuel pump (a replacement and a spare)...the one that's currently there is not the original, it's an italian aftermarket unit: so i currently have three suspects for the problem, here's what they are and what i plan to do about them: 1) the classic vacuum leak. i've searched for this, but not exhaustively. i plan to go through the vacuum lines one by one and replace them. 2) clogged fuel injectors. the car was running pretty well when i got it, so i started to think about what might have changed recently to cause this condition. one thing that i have been doing, is adding fuel injector cleaner with the last few fill-ups. according to this site and others i've read recently, this is a no-no on motronic cars of this vintage as doing so will dislodge all of the accumulated crap in the fuel system where it will get lodged in the super-fine screen filters on the fuel injectors, clogging them (much less of a problem on the mechanical injectors on CIS systems!). i checked out the resistance on the injectors and they were fine, so the next step will be to replace them or have them cleaned, rebuilt and tested. i'm leaning toward the latter as the reputable shops give you test reports, etc. 3) bad idle air control valve. this seems less likely than clogged injectors -- what the the chances that the IAC suddenly went bad? -- but it's possible and the symptoms i'm having are consistent with a bad IAC valve so that will be my third thing to investigate. i've also tested the resistance on the IAC valve and it's fine, but the mechanics could be messed up (or clogged) so i will most likely just replace it with a new bosch unit. the last two items are related to the cleanliness of the fuel system, so i will also replace the fuel filter as the cost is negligible and this is something that should be done anyway as part of regular maintenance. any thoughts, opinions, etc. are welcome! andré PS -- washed the car yesterday, it's looking pretty good these days except for the rear reflector panel which came loose (my repairs didn't hold): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Look inside the iac and you will see if it's clogged, it should look like that: If it's not slightly open the engine won't start properly. It can be opened for cleaning: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Looks great André :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 21, 2015 Report Share Posted August 21, 2015 Hi Andre - looks great! Hard start: I always like to determine if it's fuel or spark when things like this crop up. A shot of carb clean (or similar combustible) in the intake will confirm if electrical or fuel. (If it fires its fuel, if it won't fire even on ether there's no spark). Inductive timing light is a good way to confirm spark too. Do you ever try a little pedal, or even WOT when cranking? Good luck with the hunt! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 22, 2015 @SRDT -- thank you for posting this information! i will probably get a new unit, because my time is limited right now and i want to show my car at the French & Italian Car Show here in Los Angeles in a couple of months. but this is very valuable information, i will likely use this to clean the old one so i have a spare... aussi - bienvenue sur le forum! @savo -- merci, mon ami. @rabin -- that is a good idea, i will try it (the carb clean). usually when i start the car, i use a bit of pedal. i've also tried WOT since i've had this problem and neither seems to make a difference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 28, 2015 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 so now my 405 won't start at all. it will crank all day long, and if i've let it sit overnight it will start for a second, then die. so i did some investigation. as a testament to my pack-rat nature, i have a TAD99, which is a proprietary code reader for the 405 and other peugeots of that vintage. so i hooked it up and got some readings. the only code i got was 14, which corresponds to the NTC sensor. so while i might have screwed up the wiring for this sensor when i added the new connector, since i was having problems before that i think that it is more likely that the sensor was bad to begin with. i checked the factor manual, and it gave a range of resistance readings for the ntc sensor at different temperatures. because i can't start the engine (and heat it up), i could only take the resistance at ambient temperature (68F/20C) early this morning. instead of the optimum reading of 2280 - 2720 ohms, i got a reading of 2130 ohms. i'm going to have to go ahead and call this reading inconclusive, because the expected resistance goes down as the temperature goes up, so this reading could well be to spec if the temperature was a bit above 68F/20C, which it probably was. as luck would have it, though, i have a new oem ntc sensor. what i *don't* have is a new crush washer for the new sensor, so i'm going to have to wait a couple of days until a new one comes in before i can swap it out and see if that helps. in the meantime, i'm going to continue to look for vacuum leaks. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted August 28, 2015 Report Share Posted August 28, 2015 An original TAD 99! You can read the codes without it but it's not as easy and way less cool. The unused "2" position on the switch is for engines without catalytic converter bdw, here is an old VHS rip about motronic diag but in french: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcvrlz_autodiagnostic-motronic-peugeot-405_tech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted August 29, 2015 Report Share Posted August 29, 2015 Sorry not reading trough topic an just jump in have u checked if spark comes after is stops running? if not change ignition module (general part) and coil those fixed my problems when I did have mi16. If sparks comes then fuel pump need direct 12V power to test it fuction. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 1, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 1, 2015 i spent a bit more time today diagnosing. yesterday, i realized that several sessions of cranking without the engine turning over or firing had probably depleted my car's battery. so i hooked it up to the charger overnight. when i put it back in today, the car started right up but wouldn't stay running for long (though it would restart with a bit of effort). if i kept the revs up above 2k or 2.5k rpms, it ran okay for a few minutes but then stumbled. if i was quick enough, i could catch it and give it a bit more pedal and return to 2.5k rpms for another few minutes; this cycle seemed to go on for a while. i hooked up a spark sensor (the kind that goes between the distributor and one of the spark plug wires) and started the engine up. with me out of the car shooting video of the sensor, here's what i got: https://youtu.be/7u5l1lZlbdI as you can see in the video, the spark fires fairly well at times, but when the engine stumbles, the spark does too; that is to say, it's a problem with the spark that's making the engine stumble, i think. i cleared the codes from my TAD-99 and ran it again, and i got the code for the ntc sensor again. so at this point, i'm thinking that the ntc sensor is bad or my wiring job was crap (but the car did this before i rewired the sensor so i'm leaning towards the first possibility ). it seems as if the ecu intermittently thinks the sensor is bad or missing, so it is cutting off the spark. this is my current theory which i will test when i get the new crush rings (and can install the new ntc sensor) in a few days....if that doesn't fix the problem, i suppose that means i had an ntc sensor issue and a spark problem. then i guess my next move will be to replace the ignition module and coil as V-M suggests.... feedback, thoughts, ideas, etc. welcome! andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 An original TAD 99! You can read the codes without it but it's not as easy and way less cool. The unused "2" position on the switch is for engines without catalytic converter bdw, here is an old VHS rip about motronic diag but in french: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xcvrlz_autodiagnostic-motronic-peugeot-405_tech that is a very interesting video, thanks for posting this link! with my bad french i was able to follow it, but i think that anyone who has read the factory manual would be able to follow even if they didn't understand french. i gotta say, though, this guy kinda freaked me out : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 2, 2015 Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 Give me a call after NTC sensor replacment if problem continues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 2, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2015 will do, thanks, savo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted September 6, 2015 Report Share Posted September 6, 2015 You can have a spark plug wire problem, sometimes a wire is old or didn't plug well and as the harness is really close electric arcs can mess up the motronic and reset it. This happened on at least two XU9J4 with ML4.1 but the M1.3 should probably react the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 got the crush washers in and finally found some time to replace the ntc sensor... car started right up and idled smoothly (unlike before). i let it run for quite a while and it didn't stumble at all. i haven't had a chance to test drive it yet but i'm (cautiously) optimistic.... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 22, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2015 success! my 405 is now back to running normally. i don't know if i mentioned it before, but i had pretty much narrowed my intermittent start problem down to an issue related to spark. i definitely had fuel -- not only did carb cleaner not help, but on occasion i could smell fuel when i flooded the engine trying to start it. even though my car seemed to start okay and run smoothly after i replaced the ntc sensor, the day after my last post i had trouble starting it again. i moved onto the next item on my list, the ignition module. i got a replacement and when i examined the old unit, i saw that the wire spring clip on the connector was bent out of shape such that the plug was not firmly attached to the module. i went ahead and replaced the module anyway -- i was in there and had the new one handy -- and i also bent the spring clip back so that it would hold the connection. the car started easily and ran without problems for 20 minutes in my driveway (while i puttered around cleaning up and putting away tools). i took it for a spirited drive this afternoon and it ran well, no cutouts or stalling and it restarted easily several times. so my problem was a loose connection on the ignition module (merci, SRDT!). i'm getting the fast-blink on the turn signal, so my next task will be to find the short or bad bulb and fix it. there is already a homemade ground wire attached to the left rear turn signal light so that'll be my first place to check. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 23, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2015 i'm getting the fast-blink on the turn signal, so my next task will be to find the short or bad bulb and fix it. there is already a homemade ground wire attached to the left rear turn signal light so that'll be my first place to check. it occurred to me today that the fast-blink didn't start until after i began changing out the incandescent turn/marker bulbs for LEDs, so i did a bit of research and discovered that this was probably the source of the problem. the tl;dr version is that the LED bulbs draw so little power that the car thinks the bulbs are out. the best fix is a new LED-compatible flasher relay, Super Bright LEDs sell an LED/incandescent-compatible unit so i ordered one (after verifying that it is the correct one for the 405). i'll post a report when it comes in. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 24, 2015 Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I was just about to make a post about it. I just converted my 405's to all LED light bulbs with LED flasher. I found my on Ebay for few bucks. http://m.ebay.com/itm/221550505483?_mwBanner=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted September 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2015 I was just about to make a post about it. I just converted my 405's to all LED light bulbs with LED flasher. I found my on Ebay for few bucks. http://m.ebay.com/itm/221550505483?_mwBanner=1 i think that is the same unit i bought, they look identical. Super Bright LEDs also sell a unit with a little dial on top so that you can adjust the blink rate. my ocd isn't that bad, though.... also -- my kids are volunteering at an event this weekend in van nuys, so after i drop them off i'm going to check out a plating shop nearby; i want to start getting my engine brackets cad plated so they look good again. when you had your stuff cad plated, you went with the yellow finish (not the clear), correct? i'm thinking that the yellow is the original finish for our cars... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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