andrethx

it sounds like you've discovered that the 405 mi16 dipsticks (1172.99) are nearly unobtainium. NOS units show up on eBay UK and eBay France on rare occasion, but they are around US$100 (before shipping!) when they are available, instead of the usual $15-$30 for other 405 dipsticks. fortunately, spoox motorsports in the UK sells a reproduction that they say is a perfect match and made by the OEM (spoox has a shop on eBay UK, but the dipstick isn't sold there, only on spoox's own website). it's only £35, but once you add shipping, exchange rate, etc., it's US$82.89...I know this because I ordered one recently, I'll post about it when it comes in.

hi PJ, welcome to the group as with a lot of things, the answer to your questions is, "it depends." leaving aside that this is a rare-in-the-US French car, it's a car that has been sitting for 20+ years, so getting it started up and running will take a bit of effort and skill. getting the car started (if it's possible) will be a straightforward project if you know what you're doing, and definitely a good learning experience if you're just starting out with European cars from this period. that said, what happens next depends on what was meant by "ran and drove" -- presumably the car moved under its own power, but did it have any mechanical problems that needed to be addressed at that time? for example, 505 turbos are known for having cracked cylinder heads (for a variety of reasons I won't go into here) and they can run with this problem though not very well. so like any old car, there may be mechanical problems that require lots of money and/or skill to fix to get the car fully sorted. I'm no expert on 505 turbos, but off the top of my head the main issues that people see are rust (probably not an issue in this case), electrical problems (old electrics that were not super-robust to begin with) and cracked heads; I'm sure others here can add to this list. as far as I know the 86 turbos have relatively few parts that are "unobtainium" and some of those can be repaired if no replacement is available. there's lots of information here on this forum and on other forums you'll find links to here; also, the factory manuals are still available and some of them are even posted online. as for parts, we get them from a variety of sources; we have vendors listed here who stock NOS parts, new aftermarket parts and some of them have parts cars to draw from as well. there are also vendors in Europe and elsewhere who have parts available as well. again, it all depends on what you need, how much you are willing to spend and how patient you are. like I said, there are others here who know lots more about 505 turbos than I do and I'm sure they'd be happy to answer any specific questions you have. to start out with, though, I know we'd all enjoy seeing pics of the car, so if you have a chance, please post some! outside, engine bay, interior, etc.

I had a a problem with my car being hard to start; the solution ended up being a loose connection on the ignition module. I cleaned the connection and replaced it with a new one out of an abundance of caution, it's documented on my thread. in my case, the car was harder and harder to start until it wouldn't start at all. I don't think it was running roughly once it did start, but it's possible that your problem could be an intermittent connection somewhere.

rob, I think the inside of the glovebox is actually flocked (excluding the inside of the glovebox door). there are re-flocking kits available from a number of places, it's certainly one option for refinishing the inside of one's glovebox. as for missing parts -- are you guys familiar with the Miami Stu website? he has posted nearly all of the 405 parts microfiche plates; there are two different sets of 405 fiches, of course you want the pre-1993 (series 1) version as that's what we got in the US & Canada. these scans are the international version, so not all of the north american-specific parts are in them, but it's still extremely useful for un-muddling one's car, finding parts, etc. he also has the 205 parts fiches there, fwiw here is the plate for the LHD car glove box

hi joe I'm andre, I'm in Los Angeles and I own a 91 mi16 nearly identical to yours. I've been a poor member of the group for a few years now, and I've been meaning to resume posting but something always seems to get in the way. tonight I came to the site and read your build thread (nice!) and it gave me the push I needed to post again. anyhow, regarding the factory radio connector -- do you have any of the manuals for the 405? if not, I have most of them and I would be happy to send you a scan from the "405 Workshop Manual 1991 Electrical" showing the pinouts. but there is an easier way. you can buy a Peugeot 405 - to - ISO connector and use that as an adapter; it'll probably have to come from Europe (here's a link to one from the UK) but it'll make the radio installation much easier and cleaner. the one I got even had the wires labelled, but ISO wires are standard colors to it's pretty easy even if you get one that doesn't have the wires labelled. for example, on the one I linked to, the brown ISO connectors goes to the speakers and the black ISO connector goes to the car wiring...on the black connector, the red wire is + ignition switched, the yellow wire is + constant, the black wire is ground (earth), the orange wire is dashboard illumination and the blue wire is power antenna signal. you can just lop off the black connector and connect those wires to your head unit's harness. I'm connecting my head unit to an external amplifier so I'm not using the brown (speaker) connector, but if you're not using an external amp, the wiring on the brown connector is pretty simple: white pair = LF, grey pair = RF, green pair = LR and purple pair = RR (plain wire is positive and black striped wire is negative in every case). the orange connector that attaches to the Peugeot dashboard harness is keyed so it's impossible to get it wrong. hope this helps, happy to answer any questions

welcome jmlabez, fuel senders for US 505s are difficult to find, since the fuel tank (and thus the sender) for US/Canada sedan models were unique. NOS senders are pretty much gone at this point, your best bet is to check with one of the parts guys in our vendor section for good-condition used. eventually, 505 owners are probably going to have to adapt something from another car or from a universal part. where are you in SoCal? I'm in west LA. you could check with Ukit in El Monte, he usually has wheels to sell. 642-442-3733. he may also have a fuel sender. andre

here are the three pages from the "grounds" section of the manual: there isn't anything else that i can see in the manual that gives any explanation of the syntax (i.e., format) used for the names of the ground points. your suggestion that "H" stands for Habitacle (passenger compartment) could be correct because while HM3 is used mostly for the tail lights (feux arrières), it does ground one of the interior dome lights (lampe lecture); also, the other HM* grounds (e.g., HM5, HM7) are used to ground many interior electrical accessories. i don't know where the rear ground points (prise de masse) are on the 604, but i doubt they are in the interior, they are most likely in the trunk (boot/coffre) as you suggest, but maybe the "H" in the name refers to the function and not the location...just a guess... andré

the 604 manual i have doesn't have individual diagrams for the 1982 but it does have the 1983s, which i assume are similar. here's the diagram for the turn signals, sorry for the shadows: unlike the 505 and 405 manuals that i've seen, the 604 manual doesn't have a separate table listing the location of the individual electrical components. the master schematic for these cars (too big to post, sorry) is only loosely "geographic," but it shows the flasher unit in the same general area as the dashboard instruments and switches; so my guess would be in the passenger compartment, behind or under the dash somewhere. the wire numbers are probably the same for your car, so worst-case-scenario, you could always trace the numbered wires shown here. it's probably a good idea to clean your rear ground trees while you're at it... andre

i put the rear deck back in place recently: and i managed to get the rear deck brake light back together with an LED bulb inside; i had to switch the wires because the polarity was wrong for the LED bulb. i got a second rear deck brake light from ukit but it was also broken. between the two lights, i managed to get enough pieces together for one complete light but i had to glue it shut with the bulb inside. i re-installed the light but the results were disappointing -- only the left side of the fixture lit up, even though there are no obstructions inside the fixture that would cause this...i'm thinking that the philips bulb i used (you can see a picture of it, upthread) is oriented such that the light is not evenly cast inside the fixture...the solution to this is to use a different type of LED bulb, the type with LEDs festooned around the entire outside of the bulb -- something like this: however, my fixture is glued shut so i'll have to break it open or find another fixture (that'll teach me not to bench test, i guess). but at least for now i have a working rear deck brake light, and the fixture looks correct: over the last few weeks, i have been working on the rear speakers on and off. i returned the pioneer speakers and got a pair of infinity 6.5" speakers; they look like this: these speakers had the lowest "above-deck" height of any coaxial speakers i could find...component speakers have woofer/midrange would fit even better, but that would have required me to make new holes in the rear deck for the tweeters and i want to stick with the stock appearance. to make these fit, i had to modify the stock speaker mounting "basket" by making an inside "lip" by using my dremel tool. the first one came out pretty good, the second one was even better. i've got a little more work to do on the wiring, then i'll mount them in the car and move on to the next thing.

aside from being busier at work these days (and the usual family obligations), i gotta say that the main reason i haven't been able to spend as much time working on my 405 as i would like is my passat. i got this car with the idea that i'd give it to my son when he got his driver's license (he's got a learner's permit now) and it's a good car, but there is always some little thing wrong with it. this car has a check engine light on 50% of the time, and it's always something minor. a couple of months ago, i had a check engine light when it was time to get the car smogged (emissions tested) and it took me a few weeks to get it straightened out and through inspection. i also got a new stereo head unit for this car with bluetooth and navigation as well as inputs for a backup camera. as part of the prep for that upcoming installation, i changed out the original antenna for an OE gps/radio antenna a couple of days ago.

looks beautiful, mike!

it really is a beautiful injection pump.

new battery. this is the unit that the battery company specifies for my car but the hold-down bracket doesn't quite fit. i will probably add a bit of L-shaped rubber to each side to make the hold-down fit snugly

got my battery tray back from the powder coaters (#savospec ), came out pretty nice. they did a good job of masking off the threaded parts the battery doesn't seem to be holding charge very well these days so i'll be replacing it soon. i've also got some new wiring on order, more on that later. with the rear deck panel out, i lubricated the trunk hinges with white lithium grease (thanks for the tip, goce ) i got some speakers, but they don't fit into the factory grill/speaker mount setup, so i'm sending them back for something else. i think i mentioned that my rear deck brake light was broken -- i got another one, but it is also broken. my "original" light was basically glued together with the original incandescent light bulb inside, so i decided to use the parts i had to do the same again, but with an LED bulb inside. i am still looking for a new or better-condition rear deck brake light, but until then i will have something that looks presentable and that functions. the bulb socket is hardwired to that part of the wiring harness, so gluing the light fixture shut means that the entire assembly is hard-wired to the car. so the first step is to add a connector so that i can change the fixture out easily when i find a replacement. andre

i think arun went with 225s, IIRC he had to roll his fender wells. you may want to review his threads (links above)

that's great news! if you don't mind my asking, what was the cost for these? also, when they come in, please post pictures! also, to answer your earlier questions -- i'm not aware of any off-the-shelf coilovers for the 505s, but some people (including arun, i think), have build their own so that's probably what you'd have to do to get coilovers for your car. speaking of arun, he was very careful to choose "truck wheels" for his car that didn't look like truck wheels; but i understand your not wanting to make any permanent changes to your car, that's a legitimate concern IMHO. the gottis are the only wheels with the correct bolt pattern that i've seen that are available in larger sizes than stock, otherwise you would have to use adapters to get larger diameter wheels. also -- if you are looking for a strut brace for your 505, forum members have discovered that a strut brace from a mitsubishi evo 7 is the perfect size (although you may have to drill some holes to attach it).

http://www.gbsalpine.com/wheel/gotti/eng/075.html

check out this project from arun, one of our forum members here: he modified the hubs of his 505 (v6) to use truck wheels, more commonly available here in the US and his subsequent wheel upgrade he also modified his suspension, this is a track car that he also drives on the street

reading your post has "refined" my memory of how all of these things work - i think your analysis is spot on. the solenoid system is essentially a second lock that's pre-installed on all of the cars to save on labor cost...the remote system is plug and play and IIRC it was even a dealer-installed accessory. so you have two possibilities, a car without the remote system and a car with the remote system; given the constraints the product planners imposed, the engineers came up with a system that is complicated but allows for both possibilities. there is a similar logic to the door locks on the car; my 1991 405 and my earlier 1986 505 both have power door locks but no remote. french manufacturers were way out front in offering remote locking/unlocking systems, from the early 80s on peugeots and renaults used an infrared-based system called the PLIP -- if you google that term, you'll find a lot of information out there on the internet as well as here on this forum. on the 80s and 90s peugeots, the transceiver unit generally goes in the overhead console, if you remove the panel of the plafonnier (dome light), you'll see a spot where the transceiver can be plugged in. the dealer kits were all bought up years ago but you can sometimes find good used ones (or even $$$ NOS ones) on the european ebays. it's also possible to wire up a modern RF-based remote locking kit at this install point, but you will still be left with the operational constraints of the system (i.e., no remote trunk-popping) unless you re-engineer things yourself. car looks great, by the way.

welcome mystreba! please post pics of your car when you get a chance. IIRC, the 505 trunk lock works the same as on the 405...to open the trunk, you push in the button. you use the key to lock & unlock the trunk (putting the key into the keyhole on the button) -- if it's unlocked, pushing the button will open it. if it is locked, pushing the button does nothing. the solenoid/actuator is there in the event that you have the optional remote (which was available in europe, not sure if it was available in the US/Canada). this remote would lock and unlock the doors; when you locked the doors, it would lock the trunk but when you unlocked the doors it would not unlock the trunk. there is no trunk release button inside the car. so if the trunk is locked, the only way it will open is if someone gets out of the car, rain or shine, and unlocks it with a key and presses the button. "wow," you are thinking, "this is a huge pain in the ass, why would anyone design a car this way." but actually, it is quite charming and french. protip: if you are taking a weekend getaway with your crush/significant other, make sure the trunk is unlocked before you pull into the porte cochere of that fancy hotel, or you'll be back there with the bellman getting your luggage out of the trunk since he will have no idea how to get into your locked trunk and you will definitely lose style points. this is part of the fun of owning an older french car, things will be going fine for a while and you'll be thinking, "hey, it's really not that different from other cars i've owned" and then you will encounter something like the trunk or the horn or any one of a dozen other things which will make no sense at first (and maybe even later). but we are here for you, ask anything and we will do our best to answer. also, if you haven't already, you should join peugeot-l (yahoo group) and our Facebook group. andre

that's good advice, goce, thanks. i will definitely do that. the bordeaux color was pretty common in the US/Canada on the 405s. my rear-deck brake light is all cracked and in bad shape; i got another one but it's only slightly better. we have had the requirement for the high-mounted third brake light in the US since 1986 so for the 405, this light is a US/Canada only part and is thus very difficult to find now. at times i have considered replacing the rear spoiler with one that has an integrated brake light so i could get rid of the rear deck light. this would leave a hole in the rear deck panel so i looked at getting a rear deck panel from europe and they are all black or grey as you note. of course, i could get a grey one and paint it bordeaux but i've decided to stick with the original configuration (at least with respect to the interior brake light). i have a pair of A/D/S 300i panel speakers, they were very popular and well-regarded at the time the car was new ("period correct," as they say), i had considered putting them in the rear deck of this car but i think i'll save them for a future project. instead, i am going to replace the worn-out factor speakers with good aftermarket speakers and use the original grills so it will look original but sound very nice. the original grills are kinda tired so i'm going to refinish them in the next few days with satin black spray paint.

a couple of days ago i found some time to remove the rear deck trim piece from the car. the most difficult thing about this sort of task in an old car is removing the part you want to replace/work on without damaging anything. the rear deck speakers were trashed, so i removed them from the mounts and measured them to make sure my replacements would fit yesterday i gave the rear deck trim a good cleaning with all purpose cleaner and a microfiber cloth i had some time late this afternoon so i painted the rear deck trim (plage arrière). it came out pretty nice, the dupli-color trim paint is a pretty good match for the original bordeaux color i gave it three coats with about 10 minutes of drying time in between (as directed). going to let it cure for a couple of days before i re-install.

7587.N9

thanks goce. my theory is that the plastic clips that hold the switch assembly on the backside of that trim piece broke and the screws were put in to hold the switch assembly in place; it doesn't look like the hole was ever covered. another piece that i'll probably have to replace. it's pretty clear that the big silver philips screw is not original; there was an original black screw that fit recessed into the front screw hole that i had just removed before this picture to get the size so i could replace both screws with the correct size. had some time today, put in the handbrake handle cover. like most jobs on my car, it was 90% cleaning. next on my list is to get the dashboard back together. i need to get some LED bulbs for the instrument panel before i put everything back together. i have a new windshield wiper control stalk that i need to install and i still need to get a new turn signal stalk. hopefully can get to those items soon.

question for mike, or savo, or any of the other 405-knowledgable people out there: are these holes original, or were they put there by a previous owner of this car? there were two long, thin black screws here...