robotic Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 First post- I've owned a '91 Mi16 for about 4 years now. It was in decent shape when I bought it, but I'm just going through a long list of relatively minor fixes. After replacing front end suspension and control arm bushings as well as tie-rod ends, an alignment was in order. I know there isn't really any adjustment for the rear, so I suppose this is more of a baseline to keep an eye on the rear camber. I'll have to double-check the Peugeot specs, but the rear right camber is out spec, leading me to believe I'm starting to have some bearing wear. I haven't felt any free play yet, but I was curious if anyone has feedback. I actually have the bearings but if I can delay this I wouldn't mind postponing this a while. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 There's a needle bearing in the trailing arm pivot that's known to develop play as well - or did you mean wheel bearing play? There's a procedure to drill the trailing arm bearing housing to install a grease zerk to get grease into the bearing to prolong it's life - but that'll be a crap shoot at this point. I'm sure Savo or Goce can provide better insight though since they're 405 guys. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 3, 2018 Report Share Posted January 3, 2018 Clink on that link above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotic Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 You are correct Rabin, to clarify, I was referring to the needle bearings for the rear trailing arms. If I need to replace them I'll consider installing a grease fitting while I'm at it. Savo, what kind of issues are you seeing on the rear wheels at your ride height? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Camer being negative,it’s not too bad but softer tires can’t last no more the 15,000 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotic Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Any chance the camber is from the needle bearings wearing out? Were you able to notice a big difference between camber before and after lowering? My car is at stock ride height currently, and my tires are wearing evenly at those numbers. I wouldn't be opposed to a slight drop in height though. Those shims in your build thread look like they move the entire wheel outboard. I don't see how they would impact camber or toe, unless I'm missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Shims would be slightly wedge shaped to affect camber/alignment - but it's moot since the 405 has a fixed spindle in the rear axle as per the pictures. Another potential cause option could be sag in the rear cross member itself. I worked on a 505 that had been "fixed" by a shop that essentially bent the cross member until the alignment was back into spec. Different suspension - but the idea would be the same. BTW: Grease fitting is for extending/saving the life of the bearing already in place. If it hasn't already deteriorated - adding grease will save the bearing and likely extend for the life of car. I wouldn't really wait until replacing them unless you plan on replacing them right away. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 I've had to replace the rear axle bearings on almost all the 405's i've owned, if the beam axles are undamaged is an easy on the car repair, not more difficult than lowering, if they are damaged, then it's a bigger job, decent size hydraulic press is a must. And funny enough driver's side seems always to be the first to fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 3 hours ago, robotic said: Any chance the camber is from the needle bearings wearing out? Were you able to notice a big difference between camber before and after lowering? My car is at stock ride height currently, and my tires are wearing evenly at those numbers. I wouldn't be opposed to a slight drop in height though. Those shims in your build thread look like they move the entire wheel outboard. I don't see how they would impact camber or toe, unless I'm missing something? I haven’t driven my 405 in stock ride height for more then one day so I can’t tell you difference before and after in camber,also my two DD 405’s are California cars so there is no needle bearing issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 4, 2018 Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 To be honest I wish they designed rear suspension like MKII Golf. Way more ways to correct this issue and they use coil springs in the rear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robotic Posted January 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2018 Thanks for the replies. I thought there might be a point at which you could tell when is a good time to change the bearings by looking at the camber, but as Goce mentioned, prolonging the work could be making it a more involved job down the road. The lack of adjustment can be annoying when it comes to tuning, but overall the rear end design seems to be a decent compromise between trunk space and fun handling. Just saw this when doing a bit of research, granted it isn't a 405-specific part, but bronze bearings would make the trailing arm something you'll never need to think about: http://marxxon.com/newsinfo/665.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 My ex-405 had this problem from new, rear toe was whacked out, nothing could be done about it under warranty, tires wore out quickly and cupped badly before that. Honestly, it was by far the worst thing about the 405 and what will stop me from buying another one, especially since they're all so old now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Correcting wheel camber should be possible by bending the rear beam should it not? I bought a TL'd 505 that had the rear camber corrected by bending the rear subframe. It almost looked odd for a 505 to have 0 degree camber at the back. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I would not bend the rear beam as it will not be accurate repair,this may cause more problems and new out of spec alignment issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 I was suggesting a pro repair - Body shop with a frame alignment jig and a smart tech would have zero trouble bending a beam back until the wheels were in spec. Backyard hack wouldn't be advisable at all. Be too easy to screw up without having an accurate way to see wheel alignment during repair amoungst other things. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 At that point this repair would exceed the value of the car :-( Leave it alone and live with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 10 hours ago, Mike T said: My ex-405 had this problem from new, rear toe was whacked out, nothing could be done about it under warranty, tires wore out quickly and cupped badly before that. Honestly, it was by far the worst thing about the 405 and what will stop me from buying another one, especially since they're all so old now. I agree with Mike,I wish they made it just like MK II Golf. Now AWD rear is worsed in my opinion,more weight,more parts to brake and still camber is not adjustable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 Because those are workhorse vehicles (206,306,405,406) here i've seen absolutely everything done with the rear axle, from using bushings instead of bearing, bushings made from (plastic, bronze, cast iron), the factory setup with added grease nipples is the best solution, i've seen too many 405 crash because of free play in the rear axle or tire waged to the inside of the wheel well causing an spinout, about using a frame alignment jig to bend the rear axle, i don't think is possible, it will rip the 2 M14 bolts the hold the complete axle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 hours ago, my3AWDgst said: I agree with Mike,I wish they made it just like MK II Golf. Now AWD rear is worsed in my opinion,more weight,more parts to brake and still camber is not adjustable. The X4 (AWD) are not adjustable, from the factory but is very easy to make it, the rear swing arms are simply bolted with an long bolt, elongating those holes and welding a washer is an easy way to do it, and as a person who has owned and driven both the x4 is hands down better suspension ( better roadholding, less body roll, soffter ride) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Goce said: Because those are workhorse vehicles (206,306,405,406) here i've seen absolutely everything done with the rear axle, from using bushings instead of bearing, bushings made from (plastic, bronze, cast iron), the factory setup with added grease nipples is the best solution, i've seen too many 405 crash because of free play in the rear axle or tire waged to the inside of the wheel well causing an spinout, about using a frame alignment jig to bend the rear axle, i don't think is possible, it will rip the 2 M14 bolts the hold the complete axle. I’d say that this is definitely (let’s not say bad design) a flaw in the design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 10, 2018 Report Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 hours ago, my3AWDgst said: At that point this repair would exceed the value of the car :-( Leave it alone and live with it. I'd can't see it being expensive. Shop rate * hours, and there's no materials. (Can't see it taking more than 2 hours.) Trick is finding a shop willing to do it, and a tech good enough to do it right. As for the bolts holding it - they shouldn't be stressed at all. Frame jig should be able to secure the mounted parts and then hydraulic jacks would bend the center up to correct the camber. I've seen it done on live axle 4x4 trucks that had bent housings on the truck while the alignment gear was still on the wheels. Took less than an hour. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted January 11, 2018 Report Share Posted January 11, 2018 Unfortunately any shop that hears words Peugeot keeps sending us away,so to do this and someone to do this would ask pretty penny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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