Bean Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/23/us-peugeot-dongfeng-idUSBRE9AM08F20131123 This is an interesting development... Discuss! (I need to google Dongfeng before I can say anything - I have no idea what kind of player they are in China. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 While I'd normally be a big critic of this, I must stop myself from saying "boo" or "oh no, Dongfeng isn't French, so it must be bad..". To support this, I'd look at Tata (who as you probably know oversees Jag and Landy) or Geely, which does the same with Volvo. I was initially disenchanted with the news of both take overs several years back, but looking back over the last few years of their respective ownerships, they've been doing a little better. Volvo's are certainly become more popular again (at least where I live) - and IMO - the new Jag's are drop-dead gorgeous. Plus they've been doing better in reliability. S Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 There's quite a few articles on this right now, so it will be interesting to se how it pans out for Peugeot. The nice thing with Tata and Geely was it looks like they gave Jag and Volvo the cash to actually turn out its next gen model lines and to really do them well. Peugeot needs a world beater car, and my hope was that the new 208 GTI was going to be the class leader... It's good - but is bested by the Focus ST, and lately the Mini JCW cars... Evo magazine did a shoot out of best track cars and the Mini was included because it was so much fun to drive. That is the kind of car the 208 GTI needed to be IMHO. It was a good start though, and hopefully they can get it figured out... They're currently on a bit of a role sales wise as of 3rd quarter 2013, so hopefully with the new cars they can start proving they're on the right track. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 i think that it was inevitable that PSA would team up with a chinese company....in today's market, only big consolidated companies survive, and PSA waited too long to pair up with any of the established european or north american players. to the extent that they want/need to consolidate, the japanese have basically done so, so that leaves the chinese. tata and geely have wisely left production in europe -- at this point, who would buy an indian-made jaguar or a chinese-made volvo? but it seems like that strategy has a bit longer time before payoff. IMHO volvo still has a ways to go before they are in really good shape... with regard to the 208 vs. the ford vs. mini, i think you're right. mini has a problem, though, in that the modern mini design is so iconic that changing it is problematic. it's both a blessing and a curse. they have a new design for 2015 that is making the rounds of the car websites & auto shows, and it hasn't been well received. plus, minis are in a slightly higher price category so i think peugeot's real competition at this point is ford... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 26, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/25/us-peugeot-varin-succession-idUSBRE9AO0BM20131125 I'm quite hopeful that with Carlos Tavares leading Peugeot their chances are indeed a bit brighter... Seems funny, but the reason I think he's a good choice is that he sounds like a car guy and not a bean counter. Started his career as a test driver and worked his way up - very impressive. As for the 208 - I agree about the Mini not being too close of a competitor, but the Mini is not that far off the Focus ST - at least hear in Canada. (The ST goes for well into $40K here.) I mentioned driving with a friend in Calgary when my new to me V70R transmission acted up - well that guy (Matt) owns a Focus ST and I got to drive it the following week... It definitely is an exceptional car and I was seriously impressed with how well put together the ST was, how solid it felt, and how nice it was to drive. Didn't do anything crazy - but it just felt like it was a very high quality car with great feel. The 208 needs to give that car a run for it's money for it to get the kind of positive exposure Peugeot needs to build a successful come back. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 26, 2013 Report Share Posted November 26, 2013 It is good news indeed that there will for the first time since the early seventies be a car guy in charge at Peugeot. And a very good manager at that. I considered three Peugeots for our 2014 European trip: 308 CC - may be out of production by the time we get there (Peugeot is abandoning the CC market), and long distances in top down cars can be tiring. 208 GTI - would have been faster than the car we will be getting, but it looks a bit tall and the styling is dull. RCZ - even though we will be getting the lowest powered version with only 160 HP, the styling is over the top and the road holding is said to be very nice. It will have leather interior and navigation system though. Peugeot needs more daring cars like the RCZ, with a certain something that sets them apart in at least one significant way. The 208 is too milquetoast for its own good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 Wouldn't it be great if Peugeot made their cars with that sublime and controlled, smooth ride again? Remember steering feel, tight turning circles and suspension flexibility? That sweet Peugeot growl from the engine, "On Song." . Remember seeing that tight car space and just putting the Pug into it? You might recall the 404, 504,505, 604, 306, 405, 205 Si . Peugeot do have great body quality now, great and awesome grip in the suspension but, my feelings are that the flexible ride quality and the " feeling of one, with the machine", has gone. As an example, test drive an RCZ, you will see. Harsh ride, no grunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 27, 2013 Report Share Posted November 27, 2013 i remember reading somewhere that PSA (both peugeot & citroen) no longer feel it is worthwhile to spend money on over-engineered suspensions since so much of the world is paved now...the idea being that this expenditure would be wasted on most customers. this is probably a correct assumption, but over-engineering can be a selling point for high-end cars. how many mercedes/bmw/porsche/audi owners use more than a fraction of their cars' capabilities? how many cadillac cts owners will track their cars (at the 'ring or anywhere else)? re-investing in high-end suspensions for their cars would help PSA make a more compelling case for its move upmarket, as well as help to differentiate french performance cars from the germans, et al.... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted November 28, 2013 Report Share Posted November 28, 2013 That's so funny it has to be true! I don't know if you got the 407 over there but it's suspension geometry and poor ride would give even a Japanese suspension engineer the creeps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 Last cars in North America were 1991, and just the odd 1992's that squeaked in under the wire; so just the 505 wagons and the 405 sedans and wagons. Last year of the 505 sedan was 1989... I've only driven an '89 405 Mi-16 slowly, and I was able to take Marc's '86 205 GTi for a spin around the block. I've never driven a Peugeot newer than 1989! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 29, 2013 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2013 I think Andre's post about modern suspensions and paved roads definitely makes sense as the explanation or at least their reasoning for the move to more mainstream ride and handling direction... It's sad though because my '89 505 Turbo is so much better on rough paved roads in Regina than both my Volvo V70R's ('00 and '06), as well as my sister's '11 328 x-drive sedan... My friends '79 504 diesel that I drove this past summer made the 505 seem like a domestic! I had forgotten what kind of roughness those cars can just soak up. My 504 sports an '86 505 turbo front suspension, so while it handles better and still rides great - it's not as plush as the stock 504's. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted November 30, 2013 Report Share Posted November 30, 2013 What Peugeot should do is make the 008 series a smoother riding car with long-travel suspensions. Let the 08 series be the German-esque hard-riding ones. They're already jacked up the 008s, so I see no reason why this shouldn't be the way to do it. For their larger cars (eventual 508 replacement), they should suck it up and use Hydractive suspensions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Yes Mike. The thing is that Peugeot had the suspension nailed with the 405/306/205 chassis. Why they changed that we'll never know. I get 307/308's and 207's in with the front air dams damaged and even the DPF fluid containers under the car get torn off because the vehicles are too low. If you park one over the speed bumps here there is about 25mm clearance. Lift em up and give us some ride quality . I won't own a late Pug because of this and ride harshness. Even my 307's, although great handling, were too damn stiff and too low for this area. I have a nice old 306 sedan which rides beautifully and although it is a lot lower to the ground than a 505, copes very well with the driveways and speed bumps where others scrape their guts or noses on. How anyone can live with a 407 coupe in town here has got me confused, too. Yuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted December 1, 2013 Report Share Posted December 1, 2013 Ohhh please don't lift them up or go back to 14" wheels that look is terrible. I also hate 1 foot fender to wheel gap ewwwwww. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewart Posted December 2, 2013 Report Share Posted December 2, 2013 But you can be sensible about it. Not that the 4008 looks sensible! Yuuuuk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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