anj Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Wheel upgrade http://www.flickr.com/photos/67027731@N04/sets/72157628918864025/ The idea of my upgrade came about because I was looking at wheels for my 96 Lexus Lx 450 and noticed that all the parameters were close to the 505's except the weight. The 6 bolt had PCD of 139.7 mm, hub bore of 106 mm and the search was on for light weight truck rims that didn't look like truck rims. My wheel upgrade is different in that I am using Toyota truck wheels which are OEM and after market. I went with the German built BBS RD wheel in a 17" x 8" because as a truck tire it has a large hub bore of 106 mm. The back space is 4.76" with the 505's is 4.5". The weight is 28 lbs with about a gain of 7 Ibs. With this setup I am hopeful that I will be able to run with no spacers and have minimal machining. The other wheels that I considered are the Lexus GX 470 , 4 runner and FJ cruiser wheels which have the same critical dimensions and are 7.5" wide. I am able to use any of the older Toyota 6 bolt wheels. I chose the BBS because the cost (158.00 with lug bolts and center cap) is less then used toyota wheels on ebay and includes mounting and balancing when purchased with tires. I initially thought the wheels would be too bling, but I found single one on ebay for 65.00 shipped which I used for mock up and later it will be a spare tire. The plan is to mount the wheels and work out the bugs including fender clearance as the wheels are wider. The second stage will be a big brake upgrade using a EBC 4 runner over the hub rotor in a 319mm diameter and 28 mm thick. One advantage of the rotor is that it acts as a spacer and brings the backspace to 4.5 inches. If I have clearance problems with the tie rod I can space the rotor out. The caliper is the Lexus ls430 4 piston which have been acquired and will require a custom caliper adapter. The caliper is a radial mount that has been been modified to fit the 505 before. In the rear I will retain and modify the stock caliper and go with a over the flange rotor. Tires I selected were Michelin PS2. I chose the PS2 because they are on clearance at Tirerack as the new PS are out. Went with the 245 40 17 which were 179.00 and includes mounting and balancing and a 70.00 rebate. The diameter of wheel is 24.7" which is close to OEM. The car will be a DD as well as autocross and some track days. The complication I ran into was that the Peugeot wheels are lug centric and the BBS and Toyota wheels are hub centric. I welded the stud holes flanges and they are currently at a machinist who is attaching a ring to the flange to make it hub centric. When the flanges return I will redrill to the 6 bolt pattern Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 The photo album works perfect and very slick I might add. Lovin the look too - can not wait to see it bolted up as they should really make the car look TONS more aggressive. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 very slick -- both the upgrade plan and the slideshow. i look forward to seeing the results. i like those center caps -- are those from the 205? andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohms Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 whoa. nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted February 24, 2012 Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Holy smokes! That's quite kick-ass! I'm not a wheel/hub/suspension expert so do me a favor and document the pee out of this. Try to make it so easy a housewife from the 50s could do it. Although the album format works with Chrome, are there high-res pictures? Thanks for the huge contribution. I was actually thinking of buying that are undrilled and having them drilled for the 505 hubs and dispensing with the conversion stuff alltogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted February 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2012 Andre Thanks, the caps I believe are for the TRX rims. They were in some NOS parts Rabin and I picked up. Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 hmmm...i was under the impression that the TRX rims used the same center caps as the 15" rims. the center caps you used look like 205 center caps to me. either way, they look great! andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted May 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 After 2 months of missed deadlines I took the hub from a home machinist and took it to a professional shop. Initially they refused to work on it due to liability but after explaining everything the agreed. The shop did not weld the hubcentric ring to the flange and it is an interference fit. I also had them drill the holes for the studs. Mocked it up with the wheel and the fit is perfect with zero play. I have to finish pressing the studs in, install new bearings and seals. Total cost for labour and materials for the machining is about 550.00 which is think is a great deal considering the price of adapters. Pictures updated. The ring was milled to 106 mm and is 0.75" high for the spacer and the wheel. The second stage would be to replace the spacer with a custom rotor hat/disc. As mentioned earlier the spacer makes the backspace the same as stock 4.5 inches. An interesting tool to compare different setups http://www.rimsntires.com/specs.jsp?item=Wheel-Tire size comparer&sw1=205&ar1=60&bd1=15&rw1=7.0&et1=10&sw2=245&ar2=40&bd2=17&rw2=8.0&et2=5&text1=&text2= With the current set up I can still go to toyota 15" or 16" wheels for winter/rally if I dont touch the brakes. Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 12, 2012 Report Share Posted May 12, 2012 Looks great Arun! Although I would first see what fitment is like without the spacer - if the tire doesn't touch - I'd run without them. The more you can decrease the scrub radius the better. The increased tire width - but stock backspacing means the contact patch isn't going to rotate on it's center. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted May 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2012 Looks great Arun! Although I would first see what fitment is like without the spacer - if the tire doesn't touch - I'd run without them. The more you can decrease the scrub radius the better. The increased tire width - but stock backspacing means the contact patch isn't going to rotate on it's center. Rabin The wheels went on with out the spacers as the tire width is max at the rear. If I went with 235 40 17 they may not make contact. I rolled all the fenders but there is slight rubbing when the rear compresses on the street or highway. On the track with no weight in the trunk and half tank I never had an issue. After the track session I am reconsidering the over the hub discs as that extra .25 inch would be a factor on the tire size that can be used. I would like to stay away from a staggered setup to make it easier to rotate tires and cheaper. Removing the hub is not an issue with the right tools and now considering a two piece disc with a custom/modified hat. The brakes do not need to be upgraded due to performance but because the cost of new disc is more then a custom set. I will still upgrade to the LS 430 calipers as they are light and I have already purchased them. Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 How do you plan to mount the calipers? Got drawings or a design in mind? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Hi Bryan the orginal plan was to run Toyota 4runner discs in the front with LS 430 calipers. I still may go that route after I do a mock up and the caliper adapter would be similar to your setup. My other idea is to take a disc and machine it into a custom hat and then add after market disc or custom discs from Coleman Racing. The third option is to go with a custom hat from Coleman. The last option is to go with a blank hat from Wildwood and machine it to be over the hub. I am in no rush with this mod as I just installed new pads and the brakes were amazing. Do you experience any brake bias with your set up or have you compensated for this. Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 No changes to bias on my car. I was very happy with the PFC pads up front, OEM-ish rear pads, backing plates removed to aid cooling. I do want to upgrade to braided lines at some point but that may wait till I upgrade the front calipers to the LS430 set up. I have the mounts, just need calipers and time to make it all work. Thinking I may install the front calipers in the rear as a cheap rear upgrade. I'd lose the e-brake but I'm not sure I care, after all my car is pretty much race car with a minor side of street driving in its future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted June 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2012 I had to redo the bearing on the driver side and decided to mock up the new rotor and caliper. If I am able to run the rotors without spacers I will go ahead with the mod (stage 2). If I am unhappy with the fit I will ugrade to the LS caliper with stock disc. At a later date I would get a custom 2 piece hat and rotor made that would not affect the width. I updated the pictures to show the the mock up. Arun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 6, 2012 Report Share Posted November 6, 2012 arun -- i was thinking back on this thread, and i got to wondering -- what made you decide to go with 17" wheels & tires, as opposed to 18" or 19"? was it simply a cost/benefit thing, or are there performance penalties associated with using a larger sized setup? andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted November 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Hi Andre The many reasons I went with 17 inch are as follows 1). I wanted the best tire and at that time and still is the PS2 from Michelin which only starts in 17's and the the tire cost of the 17's vs 18/19 is significant especially since tread wear is poor, guessing 30000 miles. 2). I wanted a BBS or volk/ rays quality rim 3). The 17 run 245 40 17 and would have to go with harsher riding 30/35 on 18's. 4) The cost of the rims can be double,triple or more in 18 and 19 After almost 8 months the tires were flawless at VIR and I see no need for R compound tires for this car. As a street tire, the grip in wet is so much better then my orginal tires are on dry!! The tires exceed the limits of the drive train so I can never spin the tire as the weak link is not the rubber. The down side is that the rims are 28 pounds which is acceptable for doubling the traction. I am planning to do the rallycross this weekend and have been working on a winter tire set up for the event and for winter. I have purchased two Nismo/Volk/Rays 7 x16 inch rims and fitted them with firestone winter tires. The fronts will be steel until I redo the calipers and disc. http://www.flickr.com/photos/67027731@N04/sets/72157631953725971/ The advantage is that they are narrow and the rims weigh 14 pounds and tires 19 pounds. This is a saving of 19 pounds per wheel in rotating mass. If i was to add street tires I could go with conti DWS 245 45 16 which are rated second only to the Michelins and about half the price. Now that I know this works my ideal set up would be 8x16 volks for a toyota. New the rims are around 500-650 each or find the used for 300-400. For a summer daily driver/track and autocross i couldnt be more pleased with the current BBS/Michelin set up. Arun Edited November 7, 2012 by anj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 nice! do the new volks/ray wheels have the same bolt pattern as your bbs wheels? are these wheels for the titan? would love to see some more pics of the new wheels... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 8, 2012 Report Share Posted November 8, 2012 If you check the photo gallery Arun linked there's one side angle view of the wheel. Wheels are for the Nismo packaged Frontier I believe. Random internet pic: Beautiful set up - I love how light and strong they are, and that they are nice clean design. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Pretty good looking wheel, Next year I've saved 2, 205/45/17 and 2, 205/50/17 I will be ordering hubadapters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 @arun -- very nice! now that i've re-read this thread a few times, i'm starting to understand why you did things the way you did. from what i can see, the front hubs on our cars don't seem to lend themselves to being re-drilled for a smaller pcd because of the large center hole for the bearings, etc. (maybe this is why peugeot went with the 4x140 pcd in the first place?). so you went with the 6x139.7 which also allowed you to re-use two of the existing bolt holes. is this correct? @nick -- interesting. what bolt pattern do you plan to get on the adapters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 4X100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anj Posted November 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 Andre The orginal plan was to use two of the existing holes but i welded them all and it allowed the six bolts to be spaced so disc brake bolts could be avoided. The cost of adapters was the same as getting the hubs machined. The nismo wheels will be my winter/rallycross set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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