JohnVander Posted January 28, 2012 Report Share Posted January 28, 2012 In the state of Washington cars older than 25 are not required to pass emissions testing. I was wondering if there was any equipment I could get rid of improve the performance and economy of my motor, and at the same time unclutter my engine bay? I've got an 85 GL with an xn6. Thanks, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 30, 2012 Report Share Posted January 30, 2012 Your 85 has the air valves on the exhaust manifold - I removed them off my Dad's 85, changed the studs and re-attached. Pretty sure that will clean up your bay considerably - but the only improvement will be better flow and less chance of those valves leaking. Best money spent would be to ensure your CIS system was in tip top shape and tuned well. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVander Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Thank you Rabin, what is the CIS system? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnVander Posted February 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 OK looked it up, it's the fuel distributor. What would you say the key to maintaining it is? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 john -- our xn6 engines use bosch's k-jetronic fuel injection system. the k-jetronic system is sometimes known as CIS -- continuous injection system (the "K" in k-jetronic stands for kontinuierlich, the german word for "continuous"). later model 505s had different engines with different versions of bosch fuel injection. lots of info on this site & on the internet... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted February 7, 2012 Report Share Posted February 7, 2012 Also, don't accept sub-par performance such as missing, stumbling, etc. KJet went into some stellar cars such as the Ferrari 308. When running correctly, it's as good as anything out there. (Same for LJet guys) Koll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 As Kansas does not inspect cars at all I removed the remains of the emissions equipment on my car: a few vacuum hoses and the charcoal canister. Removing the canister made a big improvement in regard to access of the steering rack, which I was changing out anyway. There is a hard plastic line that runs to the fuel tank from the canister. No fluid runs through it, just fumes. On my car I plumbed the line from the vent valve on top of the tank to the gas door overflow hose with a T fitting. Still vents as needed, simplified the engine bay and all is well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Peugeot 505s in the US didn't have many "emission controls" in the first place, and the few it did have either facilitated better performance or made little or no impact at all. For example--the vacuum advance mechanism, solenoid, and throttle microswitch on the XN6 cars actually gave the car a sharper throttle response off idle. At idle, the distributor received no vacuum advance and the timing ran a bit retarded. This was done to reduce idle emissions and keep the exhaust hot and its velocity high. But as soon as the throttle opened, vacuum advance was applied, and this could give a bump of up to 15 degrees BTDC. This gives the engine a sudden boost in perceived power and responsiveness. Another example is the passive air injection system ("Pulsair") on '82-'85 XN6s. It operates when the coolant temperature is below 40C, and as has been said before, helped oxidize unburned fuel in the exhaust manifold which in turn provided heat for the O2 sensor and catalytic converter. It relies on the low pressure present just before the exhaust valves close to draw a minute amount of air into the exhaust port area. Of course it doesn't actually do anything at wide-open throttle or very high RPM because there is no pressure drop under those conditions. But anyway, when the engine was still warming up, the O2 sensor would read the extra oxygen in the exhaust stream from the Pulsair system and artificially richen the A/F ratio, thus providing better power and smoother operation until the engine reached operating temperature. In my opinion, removing these two systems will render a poorer performing engine. The XN6 features a deceleration system which allows air to bypass the air flow sensor on overrun (while coasting/decelerating). It reduced emissions but of course has absolutely zero impact on performance and actually can ever-so-slightly increase fuel economy since it effectively shuts off fuel flow to the injectors. Also, some will universally say that removing a catalytic converter will increase performance. However if you believe the XN6 exhales enough gas to be in any way hindered by the stock catalytic converter, then I'd like to meet your XN6. If your catalytic converter is damaged in some way, then by all means remove it. But if it's in tact, removing or gutting it is simply a waste of physical effort on your part, and doesn't have any positive benefits for the atmosphere either. You want to know the two emission controls on the XN6 which kill the most performance? It's the 8.35:1 compression ratio and the lifeless camshaft. Change those two items and realize an actual measurable bump in power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Awesome explanations Joe - thanks! You do realize with that much Peugeot specific info in that head of yours - it's a damn shame you don't actually have one of your own right? I've never had the time to investigate different systems to your level, so hearing how it's all supposed to work is pretty cool. With my experience - the air valves on the exhaust deteriorate to the point the top comes off and becomes an exhaust leak. I've sealed them up to stop the leak, but since the 86+ XN6 cars got rid of that system - I did too... At least now I know to leave them alone if they're not leaking at least. On the upside - I've got an XN1 from a euro spec 505SR in my 504 with it's 5-sp. It has higher compression, and a much better cam. I just fired it up today and drove it 30 miles to a buddies place - plan is to get the clutch fixed and do some rally-crosses with it... Got the bug into a few guys in my club, so there's going to be about 5 old school RWD cars running in a "vintage" class. I HAD to represent with a Peugeot... (2 Corolla's, Mitsu Colt, my 504, and a 65 Cortina so far...) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Oh yeah, when the hoses to the Pulsair valves degrade (and as we know, they definitely will), there's nothing pleasant about the noise that rumbles out from under the hood. Replacing those isn't a huge deal, but unfortunately the original Pulsair manifold was known just plain steel and was known to internally rust and eventually blow out. Replacements were stainless, but nowadays are hard to find. I was saving it as a surprise, but what the hell I'll spill it here: I'm the lucky guy that bought Martin's two 505s (the '84 XN6 and '85 XD3T). I'm now in the process of getting them titled/tagged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 AWESOME! Let me guess - XD3T for yourself, XN6 for Chump / LeMons racing? You definitely need to start a build thread as you tune them up as I'm going to learn and copy everything you to to that XD3T. My wagon is definitely getting prepped for duty this summer and I want to make sure it's in top shape. I've got Automotive ADD so I'll be working like mad on a bunch of things at once. Not sure what you've done when you had your XN6 for performance, but Thanos in Greece has done a heck of a job figuring out performance tricks for his rally cars. Cam, shaving the head, and good fueling and those little suckes are pretty damn stout. Few buddies in my club run a Neon in Chump car and it's FAST. The did Laguna Seca in December (lost a clutch and lost an hour), and will be at Road America both times this year. When they were running they were easily top 5. I'm hoping to do at least the Gimli race and HOPING to do the Road America race in October if I can swing it. Got all my race gear already - just need a helmet and a HANS and I'm good. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 You guessed correctly sir My brother and I are putting together the team and have already started a bit of work on the car. We have some in-budget plans for the engine to tweak as much power as possible from it. I believe tuning plus the massive weight reduction and suspension work will make the 505 at least somewhat competitive. And of course the 505's enormous fuel tank and the XN6's grandfather-clock reliability will be on our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'll send you my driving resume once I get the Gimli event under my belt. Definitely feel free to document the XN6 build in the build threads too. I'm sure there'll be lots of us watching it with great interest. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Normally, I'd say this was a pipe dream. But you're one guy I wouldn't bet against! I'm sure you'll surprise the heck out of everybody. Go get 'em! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 glad to see you're a peugeot owner again, joe. i've learned a lot from your old posts; for those of us still hiking up the steep part of the knowledge curve, it's always good to have more knowledgable heads around. i think i speak on behalf of the other xn6 owners when i say please, PLEASE document your xn6 mods! i will appreciate it, and i'm sure john will too in his quest for performance.... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Thanks everyone! We'll definitely document it all and hopefully will make the Peugeot community proud. My brother and I were talking about it and even if we aren't that competitive, it's still going to be a ton of fun. Being a former tech, I think maybe half the fun for me will be modifying and preparing the car! And what's not to love about wheel to wheel racing on a tight track with drivers in all sorts of vehicles and with track experience ranging from zero to licensed racer. Should be interesting, among other things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohms Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 another xn6'er and fellow lemons racer chiming in here - pleeease do a build thread with pics! hehe Thanks everyone! We'll definitely document it all and hopefully will make the Peugeot community proud. My brother and I were talking about it and even if we aren't that competitive, it's still going to be a ton of fun. Being a former tech, I think maybe half the fun for me will be modifying and preparing the car! And what's not to love about wheel to wheel racing on a tight track with drivers in all sorts of vehicles and with track experience ranging from zero to licensed racer. Should be interesting, among other things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Ditto from me! Congrats on your recent acquisitions, I look forward to following your progress. Sounds like we could form one hell of a Peugeot Chump/Lemons team: Vic and myself having raced 505's back in the 80's. Rabin, Omar, Brian in Ohio, the guys from Seattle, Paul and his brothers/family in CT, and now you. I understand there is a high quality shop in France that is under used right now. Maybe they'll let us borrow it for a spell? Hell, we could hold our own race if we all show up at one place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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