wheel and brake upgrade in progress

[89peugeotV6]

this is what I got. I waited till I figured out that my mad plan would work before sharing it. I am putting front spindles from a 99 camaro that had the ls1 in it. The ls1's had the aluminum calipers. It isn't done yet but this is what I accomplished so far. The camaros are front stear (the rack is in front of the spindles) I switch the right spindle to the left and the left to the right to correct this. The tie rod ends from the peugeot rack fit the camaro spindles. The camaro spindles are too long so I cut them down to the desired length. I welded two plates on the inside of the spindles in order to mount the strut to the spindle like the original peugeot set up. As far as the ball joint is concerned I have one on order and it should be arriving friday. With this set up it should place the wheel just at the lip of the fender like pictured, and I won't need to use any spacers. The rear hubs will be the peugeot hubs with the holes welded shut and redrilled for the 5x4.75 bolt pattern. My only concern is how it will ride I have some solid strut mounts that are adjustable for camber, and I rebuilt the struts with 20w fork oil. The camaro spindles are surprisingly close to the peugeot spindles as far as ball joint to center hub and depth from hub face to ball joint and tie rod mount placement and length.

[Bean]

Awesome progress... I like your thinking with going with a whole new spindle as that really takes care of the entire package all at once.

You're definitely a wee bit faster than me and my project - but I thing we both should have our cars done this summer if all goes well for me. I started with the 1 pc strut on the 86' 505 Turbo when I started, and had it pretty much done when I got the 89' turbo and it's 2 pc front struts with ABS. I was already committed to the BMW stuff so I just kept going with it, and modified it to suit the 89'. Even thought the 89' set up I ended up with is pretty slick, I think I had WAY more trouble getting the disk and caliper matches to go with what I wanted, and I still have to get the caliper brackets to fit the radial mount 4 pot calipers - but those should be fairly easy once I have them all together. As it is - I don't have a parking braked solution as of yet - but I wanted to get what I have installed to insure it works before I redesign the back so that it has a proper parking brake.

So for your rears - what set up are you using: 99 Camaro as well? Park brake set up included? And are you using the Camaro booster / master cylinder as well?

As an aside - is that a 220V Hobart you did the welding with? What wire size are you using? Looks like some awesome welds from such a small machine!

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

As far as the rear goes I'm just using stock peugeot bits now having them welded up and redrilled. I have big plans for this car kinda along the lines of a complete corvette drive train swap including rear transaxle. The hobart is the plasma cutter I did all the welding with a little miller 220v with .035 wire. I had it turned up against and those are 1/4 inch plates on the spindles there aint no way they'll brake. I'm using the stock peugeot buster and master cylinder the camaro brakes are 2 piston with a single line going to them. I"m interested in seeing your set up. As far as an e brake is concerned with your set up you could go to a hydro set up modded to the stock leaver that way it will lock it in to hold. What I like about my set up is it's all GM parts so brakes and everything are available and cheap. The only thing that isn't is the ball joint which I think is off of a mitsu truck I have the receipt I'll have to check. I need to have this car done by the end of june for a trip back east so I'm under the gun, and I won't be able to work on it for 2 weeks I'll be working 7 days a week.

[andrethx]

this is all kinds of awesome.

have you seen the ls1tech.com forum? they have a section for conversions & hybrids, lots of interesting ideas there...

andre

[Bean]

I'll try to get some pics as I should be able to get the front and rear hub assembled complete with BMW brake disks. I need to get that done this week so that I can start on the caliper adapters. I'm retaining the Teves ABS on my 89', and the Boxster S 4-pot Brembo's *should* work well with the existing braking system. < That part is a total guess at this point.

Rabin

[N9TE]

Very nice work there! Can't wait to see how this work out with both projects.

[norcal505]

lol, just noticed the healthy amount of poke you're getting in the rear.

Do you have any plans for the arches?

[89peugeotV6]

I have the rear torn apart still the hubs are at the machine shop to get welded up and redrilled for the 5x4.75 bolt pattern. That rear wheel poke is exactly what I want I'll flare the fender out with the old traditional baseball bat. I'm trying to go with a very aggressive stance with it. they may fit in a bit farther when its done.

[ohms]

oh. wow.

you had me at hello.

[Bean]

It just occured to me that we're both building 89's - and both will be wicked hot. We're even close enough that would could probably meet midway for a photo shoot / midwest get together. We'd likely be the only two - but it'd be sweet to get pics of the cars together. If not this year - next for sure.

Best incentive ever - back to the garage!

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

oh yeah I was telling some of my buddies that realized what I was doing and thought that I'm completely nuts that you and I are the only ones attempting something so painstaking. I ordered tires today I went small with them fronts are 205/45-17 rears 235/40-18 just to make sure I don't have any rubbing issues if I have room I'll go bigger on the next set. I'm just waiting to get some time off to get started again. I'm stalled for the next 2 weeks but maybe I'll find some time.

[Bean]

I'm SO happy I'm not the only one doing this stuff - at least in North America. What's really cool is that once our cars are done we could meet midway - or even Brainerd in MN for a NASA driving event. (Bryan can bring his 505 race car then too.)

We could then get our cars on the track at the same event - really blow some minds! If you get the Vette power happenning though it won't be much of a battle (time wise) - but I'd give it a good fight if I can get the Danielson / stand alone set up in time.

I've beem busy the last few days getting the bumpers assembled, and fixing a lot of old previous damage. Of course - I couldn't leave the crappy old wiring alone, and I had to install new Hella 450's in the fog light holes... Once the car is re-assembled I can turn my attention to assembling all for corners.

Rabin

[Justice]

I always wondered why no one put a chevy or ford smallblock in the front of a 505. They are big enough, and with 300ish horses on tap they'd turn some heads at the light for sure. Liable to piss some folks off too that don't expect it. The thing is, keeping her quiet for that sleeper look.

But a corvette engine, all that displacement, torque and power. I really wonder if the 505's chassis is strong enough to withstand that brute force. That would be 400horse if you get one of the recent ones.

[89peugeotV6]

That be great to get to 89's on a track at the same time! The wee 8 won't happen for a while yet just a dream right now the V6 is running strong right now. I still don't know if i'll feel right about going to another power source other than peugeot, but I guess I'm changing the brakes and hubs so I might as well just go for it it'd be so much cheaper.

As far as the 505 handling the power the body can handle it just fine I heard stories of people wrecking them bending the unibody and then the car being so stiff it broke the straightening machine. I'm planning on doing a whole drive train swap engine and trans axle should make the car very balanced. If dreams could come true I'd supercharge it with a goal of 700 horse, there is a vette that is running that now. If I do do it I want to have a real mellow exhaust with electric cut outs right after the headers its the only way to go!

I like the new Cadillac cts v but I think the peugeot given enough money and time could be faster Its already lighter

[Bean]

As far as an e brake is concerned with your set up you could go to a hydro set up modded to the stock leaver that way it will lock it in to hold.

I looked at doing the hydraulic lock set up for the rear parking brake, but every unit I looked at said not to use it as a parking brake. I decided to go without one for now and just prove my current set up as being the improvement I'm hoping it will be. If everything works great and the car handles well - then I'll likely fit the matching E46 M3 rear disk with the M3 parking brake assembly.

I'm actually using E46 328i front disks on the back as they were 300 x 22mm thick to suit the Boxster rear calipers - and the disk offset should work perfect. The fronts are E46 M3 disks 325mm x 28mm - which kinda sucks as I was hoping to have the same diameter front and rear. I needed the disk offset of the E46 cars, and the only one that was 28mm thick was the M3 one.

Should work for now just so I can try all this crazyness out!

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

the problem with the hydro e brake set up is it might leak down and not grip any more then away your car goes. key word might.

you put so much research into your set up. I really hope it all comes together for you.

I'm meeting with the machinist tomorrow to work on the rear hubs. It looks like we'll be closed monday for memorial day so hopefully I'll have the front done. I might even have the rear hubs by then. I won't know how to act with this thing sitting on the ground with some 17's and 18's under it

I also got my tires today so I should be able to sneak out of work to get them mounted and static balanced (static balanced puts the weights in the back of the wheel always do that it keeps alloys happy)

I am going to be picking up my ball joints tomorrow. I really hope they are what I imagined.

[webmaster]

Yup - the leak down of the parking brake is why I didn't want to use them. I can't see it happening if everything is good - but it just takes on seal on one piston to pop and the car's rolling away. Once I sort out the current set up - the uprade to a proper BMW parking brake will be cake. There's a LOT of commonalities with the BMW - hell - even the rear bearing ID's are the same. So you could do a lot more of an upgrade if needed. I've done enough already though - just need to prove and sort it out before I move onto anything else.

I'll try to get you some pics of my rear hubs. Quite a bit more machining to do as mine were basically changed to mirror BMW rear hubs - so they're shaped to accept the BMW disk over the studs, and a center piece was press fit in for the disk and wheel centers. It's pretty damn cool if I don't say so myself.

Biggest hurdle now is just getting my garage cleaned up. 16x24 only, and it was PACKED with just too much stuff, I couldn't see the concrete and it was hard to even walk around. So I've purged everything not related to Peugeot's or the two motorbikes I've got. Once the two motorbikes are finished and sold I should have a good bit more space to work with.

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

I'm shocked the id of the bearings are the same as the beemers. I didn't want to put too much time and money into the rear set up on mine since I want to go to a corvette transaxle.

I made a lot of progress today I got the drivers side done! I just need to hook up the tie rod end get longer bolts for the ball joint and put a bushing in for the a arm. and do the brake line all easy work from here on out. since the I did the one side the other side I can probably do in half the time.

The picture is close to what the ride height will be if anything the wheel should stick up into the fender a bit farther. I had the cut the peugeot A arm they used some hard steal I had to use a cut off wheel the sawzall wouldn't do it. the camaro spindle I could cut fine with the sawzall haha

[bryancohnracing]

I love it!

I have a few questions:

Who's camber plate did you use?

You said you planned to fit 235 width rear tires. HOW? As I recall from racing my 505 in the 80's, 215's rubbed the inner fender well in corners.

I've made a little progress on my track car, with June 12 at Hallett, OK. or June 22 at Heartland Park in Topeka KS as my first outing in the car since purchase. Biggest project is going to be mounting the OMP race seat and belts. Other prep is the normal stuff, bleed brakes, change oils, that kind of thing.

Got me motivated to do even more!

[Bean]

You said you planned to fit 235 width rear tires. HOW? As I recall from racing my 505 in the 80's, 215's rubbed the inner fender well in corners.

With my project - the way it's going to work is making use of the space on the inside of the wheel well. There's quite a bit of space on the inside that is available. The other avenue is of course flaring the arch out - which I'll likely have to do front and rear, along with trimming the fender lip.

I've got 235-45-17's mounted up on the test fit, and once I've got the car dialed in and burned those used tires off I'll change fitment accordingly.

I also agree about motivation aspect - this has me going as well on at least assembling my set up, so I've been burning the midnight oil getting the garage cleaned up so I can tackle this. I was up til 4AM Saturday night cleaning and sorting!

Keep us posted on progress for your race debut as well - can't wait to hear how that goes. Did you get the rough running sorted out? Any other issues to work out?

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

alright fronts done! other than brake line which will bolt right up to the camaro rubber line. All I gotta do is get a little more length out of them since the camaro rubber line is shorter. I may need to lengthen the tie rod ends to reach and have enough adjustment which will be easy. The camaro has female tie rod end threads where as the peugeot has male thread ends, BUT they are the same size! So it maybe as easy as cutting the end off screwing it in welding it up and threading on the camaro ends.

as far as the tires I went way too small. I have 205/45-17's on the front you can see in the picture how the sidewalls are pulled out. I can go much larger there is plenty of room and best of all no spacers!!!! The rear has 235/40-18 tires that are also too small for the wheels. Like Rabin said I too went with a smaller tire to ensure fitment.

I should have the rear hubs from the machine shop tuesday. I may run a spacer on the rear to fine tune the wheel placement. How it looks in the picture is how I want it. The rear will be sitting a bit lower as well. I placed my jack stands under the trailing arms to see how they would compress the springs with a load. The jack stands are a bit higher than the center of the wheel. It looks like the rear tires will be tucked right up in the fender. My only concern is that the rear springs are too soft, but I can buy heavier spring rates since they are for a land rover discovery 1.

The camber plates I sourced off Ebay from a nice guy. I gave him the dimensions of what I needed and what direction they should slide, and he found me a set I'm not sure what car they are from but they fit perfectly. He even got me a bushing for the strut to fit perfectly in the bearing on the plate. They are not plug and play however I had to make up a little spacer and do some welding on the top spring perch to make it work, but I figured I'd have to play with them a little to make them work. He calls them size 32 camber plates with a 14mm bushing. The sellers name is ggtyler

[Bean]

You my friend are a machine!

Front wheels look perfect where they ended up, but now I'm VERY curious to know a couple things:

How close the rim is to the strut now?

And what kind of scrub radius those suckers have? Easiest way to do that is simply crank the wheels back and forth on the concrete (once you have the steering sorted out), then move the car and see where the tire contact patch is pivoting. Closer you are to the center of the contact patch the better handling it'll have. With a wider tire the contact patch moves outside that pivot which will cause the car to track out of ruts and such while on rough pavement. You can do some alignment tuning to compensate somewhat as well - but it's the trade off for running a ton more rubber.

I'm also jealous of the lack of spacers needed - that's awesome. I'm quite sure I'll likely need ~10mm spacers by my calculations, but there's guesses and approximations in that so I'm hoping for the best. It'll all come down to clearance to the strut for me.

Rabin

[89peugeotV6]

I have a good inch from the strut tube to the tire and another good inch from the top of the tire to the spring perch. I gotta fill that space with tire. It looks goofy with the tires on it now.

I'm very happy I went this way I just hope I'm not disappointed by the way it handles. I can't wait to get it out on the road, but I gotta get a gas tank under it yet.

I also discovered that I'm riding on the front bump stops I got new ones that are a bit taller the old ones were smashed and broken. I cut a set of diesel springs a while ago for it. I don't think its on them hard because it handled great a little stiffer but not much, and it never seemed to bottom out or slam real hard.

I won't be able to dedicate a whole day to it for another week not like today was a whole day anyways had to do a food order. Hopefully saturday and sunday morning and part of the after noon I'll be able to start again. I do know if I get the hubs tomorrow, I'll be in the garage at midnight starting to put them on.

[89peugeotV6]

DONE!!!

rear wheels are bolted on with no spacers I have a .25 inch spacer that I'll be putting in later. Fronts are done tie rods on I need to do a quick alignment before I take it down the road, but before I do that I need to get the gas tank in lots of work to do yet. I also need to do the brake lines which won't be hard.

I ordered the brake booster for it but I don't know if I'd have better braking if I went with the camaro set up booster and master cylinder.

Once all of that's done Its time for paint so long as it drives down the road nice

[andrethx]

awesome mod, this thread has been fun to track. i find this interesting b/c it not only shows what's possible with skill & imagination, but also helps me understand the stock setup better (if that makes any sense).

what size tires do you think you'll end up with?

andré