Bean Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Oh Savo and you Peugeot engine bashing... tsk tsk. 18 hours ago, my3AWDgst said: ... Once this engine fails I'll just swap it to "real engine" AKA 4g63 and make 550 FWHP on stock internals :-) First lets compare apples to apples - comparing a NA motor to your beloved 4G63T is just silly. The proper and fair comparison is the non-turbo 4G63, and in that comparison it's a flaming pile of shite compared to the XU9J4. 130HP? I looked and looked for any praise at all for it - but no such luck. I did find this again though: http://www.caranddriver.com/flipbook/the-best-naturally-aspirated-engines-of-all-time#33 You likely have a leg to stand on with the 4G63T against Peugeot's production turbo motors - but I've also had lots of DSM hardcore friends simply burn out from repeated and most epic unreliability break downs that 2 when Nissan and the other 3 went into Hondas because they were sick of the constant failures... That said they still have a huge following and a massive aftermarket - but the fanboy praise isn't exactly rock solid... I know you love them - but they have their weaknesses like any other engine. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Not hating at all it's just as much money you are going to spend to make this engine make some power 4g63 will double it for same amount of money. You know 4g63 is proven to be worlds number one 4 cylinder turbo engine right? No other production 4 cylinder engine has done and accomplished what 4g63 has. Show me more 6,7 or 8 second 1/4 passes or over 1khp dyno sheets!!! Just like many other DSMers your friends were no exception,a cheap duck tape repairing idiots!!! You can't run ton of boost with home depot mods and second hand parts,but no matter what you say 4g63 has shown the world what it is but on another hand a production Peugeot engine has not!!!! #4g63forlife!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 one of many over 1K AWHP dyno's ;-) #4g63 force #them7,8,9secondpasscars Show me Peugeots slips please!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Ha ha. Now you know what it feels like when I hear you crap on Peugeot for STUPID reasons. Dude - I just explained that the NORMALLY ASPIRATED 4G63 was a crap motor stock. 4G63T is the proper engine designation for the turbo motor. You're right that the 4G63T is world class motor, but shitting on a NORMALLY ASPIRATED motor for not being as potent (or not having the potential) as a TURBO motor is just a dumb comparison. Not one of your posts is about a stock internal 4G63 (< no T = no turbo) - so my point stands. As for my friends - it wasn't so much the engines (although Crankwalk affected more than a few), but the rest of the car. Transmissions, axles, center diffs - and after all that they were still left with an economy car that rode and felt like a cheap economy car. One guy spent over $60k on his car (Talon) and still walked away - Not an idiot - just what happens when hundreds of issues during a build or catastrophic failure brings you to your knees and you tap out. We also rallied against a few DSM's back in the day and they rarely stayed together to finish a rally (all about prep - but still) Fanboy all you want my friend - but I'm also a very accomplished race mechanic that just made different choices in life than just cars. Rest assured I'm more than qualified to call you out when you're wrong. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 The ONLY reason the 4G63T has done as well as it has is because it was embraced by an enthusiast following. Honda, VW, and Toyota 4 cylinder engines have done the same thing for the same reasons. Put the same money and R&D in virtually any motor and you can get similar results. Even the N9TE was making 550HP in road racing trim with CIS injection back in the early 80's. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Ummmmmm these cars are still getting faster and faster after all these years on a FACTORY BLOCK,CRANKSHAFT,HEAD,rear diff and so on. Also there are so many stock blocks or stock engines in 9's and 10's if you need links to those videos just let me know. You may call me out on whatever you want but I've shown my work and keyboard tuners well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Why is it that you're ignoring the fact that you're comparing NA Peugeot motors to boosted motors? My argument is sound - the non-turbo 4G63 is WAY behind the Peugeot XU9J4 anyway you look at it. You also keep talking drag racing as some sort of standard when it is essentially an AMATEUR level motorsport with no professional factory teams. So yes - at the AMATEUR level the 4G63T has done very well indeed.. What about at a professional level of racing? Lemans? Nope. F1? Dakar? Pajero's did weil when not competing against Peugeot... :). WRC Rally? Yes - but they had their asses handed to them essentially every year except 1998. I've always respected your work Savo, but what I take exception to is your claim that Peugeot engines are junk. You're comparing apples to oranges, and it's simply incorrect. With SO much spent on 4G63T development - it's also hardly rocket science to build them up. $$$$$ and some assembly skill and anyone can buy crazy power - but it's the same recipe for K series Honda motors, Toyota 2/3AR, Subaru EG25T, Hyundai, MazdaSpeed 3, EcoBoost, Ecotec... etc etc Love you. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 I've been busy all day to get in on the discussion, that why i'm so late, the reality is if one spends the money in R&D on building testing and developing any engine, it will make any power, in my personal opinion no one can ignore the mi16 massive intake valves and how those heads flow, peugeot XU series engines has big interchangeability and i've heard of people using diesel cranks, conrods, and making good power on garage build boosted engines, compared to 4g63t no balance shafts to deal with, no one can deny what the "4g63T" has achieved, but i agree with Bean it's down to the vendors support, and many DSM diehard fans. As a normally aspirated engine the xu9j4, xu10j4 is good and reliable, i understand the argument that when your making that much power you will brake other components, but mitsubishi's have lot more reliability problems than others. I don't mind if i see a 4g63T in a 405 in fact i love to see it, for the price of a stock engine your getting lot of power with that engine, was that your point Savo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 For the record - my beef with Savo is his slagging of Peugeot motors. His comparison of the XU9J4 motors to the 4G63T motors for power potential - two different beasts, and it's a silly comparison. Compare the XU series to the non-turbo 4G63 (proper comparison) and the Peugeot motors walk all over them. Of course an iron block, forged bottom end, turbo specific motor is going to have better power potential - that doesn't make the jewel like the XU9J4 suck because it was never designed to be turbo. (alloy block, higher compression, etc etc) Fully agree that I'd love to see a 4G63T swapped 405 when the time comes, but what I take issue with is when he says the Peugeot engines are crap. Simply not the case and I'll argue forever on that point. Personally - I'd lean towards a K series Honda powertrain with 6sp manual. Ligheter alloy block, 300HP naturally aspirated power potential (way more if boosted), and slick shifting bulletproof stock transmissions. Crazy 4 cylinder peak power numbers from drag only race cars are also a funny metric since they are entirely useless for essentially ANY other motorsport event. A proper 300HP road racing / time attack build would slaughter every one of them on a road racing track. All depends where you want to drive your cars I guess - which is why I don't value drag only cars very much since honestly - who really lives 1/4 mile at a time. (Fast and Furious reference just for you Savo!) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Bean i fully understand your argument and i know that the j4 engines are great, as for the honda engines, i recently drove a S2000 and i presume that's the engine youre talking about, as a engine revving to 9k stock is amazing, but i'm not that impressed with the chassis, little scary at high speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 First let's talk about the top of the line, 4G63T was pretty well covered and I'm no expert bu I can tell you about the XU. Citroën and Peugeot used the XU in WRC as long as they could, they even stretched the rules to use a turbo XU9J4 on the 206! The 2002 WRC winner car had a base engine discontinued 9 years before. The XU9J4 head isn't a typical modern 16v production head, check with a 205 Turbo 16 Evo2 head and you will see why. Today the XU is still used in Rallycross and in 2012 Citroën made a special DS3 for the X-Games in LA, a car with a 2.0 545 bhp engine and what can you see on the online teaser? Not the latest EW but the good old XU. Now talking about the best bang for the buck for you the 4G63T is the way to go. In France it would be different as a common XU10J2TE with minimal mods will put 200hp and way more torque than the corresponding and expensive 200hp XU9J4. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Key board tuners are typing and trying to make sence but no one has 200MPH 1/4 miles slip to proof it!!!! Wow got to change crank and rods from diesel to make it stronger? Son 4g63 does it with factory crank. XU9J4 block is a JOKE,that casting won't stay together past 30 PSI on small 35r... What a POS,to make some HP out if you need to change liners,crankshaft,grined inside of the head for larger cams...then change to billet block as stock one can take boost for crap!!! SHOW ME THAT TRAP SPEED SLIP!!!! Subaru EJ25 is the biggets POS ever,those can't stay together with stock power levels. My best friend has the shop and that all he works on. K series is a great engine and still not a close to 4g63. Those other motors you mention are not worth my time typing (4 bangers) And standard XU9J4 is not the same engine used in WRC and those engines are not mass production engines and you know in 51 states here no one knows what those engines are,but then again 4g63 speaks dor it's self. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Poor Savo - I didn't know you had it so bad... We've all admitted the 4G63T is a great drag motor, so your posturing like Donald Trump instead of discussing the facts... Apparently the ONLY thing it's good at is amateur drag competitions. Well my friend - You're absolutely right, your precious 4G63T is brilliant at taking boost and lasting anywhere from 6 to 11 seconds per competiton. We'll just have to comfort ourselves with the fact that Peugeot engines have beaten in it in EVERY PROFESSIONAL motorsport competiton your precious 4G63T has ever been entered in. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 lol 6-11 seconds,well I'm still waiting on that Factory Mass Production Engine 200MPH trap speed and 6 second 1/4 slips. 4g63 was king of the streets in early 90's and up to mid 2000's,all done on factory block,head,water pump,timing components,valve cover,oil pan and soooooooo on. Show me that Time Slip,proof me wrong man!!! Stop being professional key board tuner,4g63 has proof it self year in year out. XU9J4 not so much!!! And on top of it all it was not made in secret place to enter only few races and then be forgotten. ...so your posturing like Donald Trump instead of discussing the facts... lol you are the one who's comparing larger sizes engines to 4g63 lol like I said before SHOW me already that slip!!! What's your XU9J4 Trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted September 29, 2016 Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Any your N9TE is will never make more or better HP then 4g63. Use same mods in both engines and 4g63 will make at least 100 more HP with same mods. lol at that head and manifold design. What's your N9TE trap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted September 29, 2016 Heavens no! Say it isn't so Dom... I mean Savo. Does this mean I'm not 'family"? Does this mean we'll never do any cool heist's together with our merry group of street racers? Or how about: "It's not you Dom - it's me. You're all 'form over function', but I'm 'function over form' so it'll never work out - but we can still be friends?..." I hope you realize the boy racer taunts are super funny for me... "GASP! What - My 60's designed SOHC engine can't make extreme HP at the drag strip? What shall I ever do - Oh me oh my..." Clearly you missed the whole point of the conversation Savo. I tried explaining it in detail - but it still seems lost on you. Maybe try re-reading my posts? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Don't be mad :-) some day you may provide one 8 second pass slip on 1000th pass off 4g63 :-) Wich street Peugeot engine can increase a power output ofor over 300% over stock on stock internals? In 4g63 community all you need to do is upgrade head bolts to studs on OEM head gasket,add a 272-280's cams and boost to infinity and beyond!!! Many engines out there making 500-650AWHP on stock internals. You do this to your Peugeot engines and in few pulls you gonna see KABLAMMO like we did see Lewis Hamiltons engine yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Well Savo now you've gone too far, comparing Peugeot engine to Lewis' s mercedes engine, too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Holy smokes dude - you're seriously 1 track minded... lol I've had fun with this for sure - but we are definitely have COMPLETELY different ideas of what makes a good engine. I'll totally admit Peugeot's make crappy drag racing cars... Good thing they're better at every other motorsport that I actually find interesting. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 5 hours ago, Goce said: Well Savo now you've gone too far, comparing Peugeot engine to Lewis' s mercedes engine, too far. ???? Not comparing it to Mercedes engine just the KABLAMMO part... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Bean said: Holy smokes dude - you're seriously 1 track minded... lol I've had fun with this for sure - but we are definitely have COMPLETELY different ideas of what makes a good engine. I'll totally admit Peugeot's make crappy drag racing cars... Good thing they're better at every other motorsport that I actually find interesting. Rabin Good thing they can't make street engine that can make some HP... Find that interesting? Not my problem you can't exept the truth!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted October 3, 2016 Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 Well there is the difference, mercedes engine blow up in fire, peugeot just throws a rod as a gentleman, haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2016 The only "truths" Savo is that you have a singular narrow focus which is drag racing, and you're not really capable of thinking outside your box... It's sad you can't recognize anything other than what makes for a decent 4 cylinder drag racing motor... Seriously though - I know 4 cylinder drag racing is a thing and all, but if I ever did get into drag racing it still wouldn't be with a silly little 2L boosted 4 banger - I'd build a proper boosted V8. Would be way better bang for the buck, sound better, and be way easier to build a drivetrain to live behind it... (pokes Savo and runs! ) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted October 4, 2016 Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Nothing to do with drag racing man,I'm talking about what engine is capable of from being street massive produced engine and how easy is to make HP,now which Peugeot engine can do that??? Tell me ,show me!!! Ewwww push rod engines ewwww Veee slow ewwwww need ro run 6 plus litters to run 7s ewwww Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 4, 2016 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2016 Ha ha - So funny that you're actually trying to claim superiority over V8 engines that define drag racing at it's highest and fastest levels... Absolutely absurd... Curious what kind of budget it takes to put a DSM into 6's? (And I don't mean 1 time cost - I mean the whole ladder they went through to get to that point?) Betting you could go faster for less money with a v8. Not sure why you're posting manual times - Auto makes way more sense in a drag car since it's the best way to put the power down - you've said so yourself? Maybe you just like drag racing so much since you barely even need to even know how to drive to be good at it... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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