N9T modification

[Bean]

High EGT's: Are you able to post up any logs that could show ignition timing and boost plotted togetber against rpm?

Can you also specify what affect pulling timing, or adding timing had on the EGT's? I'm guessing if you pulled timing as boost increased egt's should come down, but maybe adding more timing would see it drop.

Also curious what fuel you're running and if you've ever run race gas or Toluene (or similar) to bump octane to see what affect that had on EGT's.

My last hail mary is to suspect the reground cam. Swapping the stock cam back in would be a last resort, but I'm curious how it would change your motor. Stewart ran Dani numbers in Dynosim and be pretty much nailed the rep the Dani cams had for coming on late which is why I wanted to work with him on a custom grind specifically suited for the build.

Rabin

[keebs]

My advice rip it all out, it will look cleaner. I bought wires, crimpers, connectors, and iat/clt sensors from www.diyautotune.com all wires are labeled.

For ecu grounds I used a marine grade bus and heavy cable to the cyl head. I used all the stock relays to make it easier, be sure to solder and use the shrink wrap that has glue inside. I got carried away and pretty much went one wire at a time to get lengths right (leave a few extra inches in each run you can hide it later). I wired it all in and realized I had no way to get it out for wrapping (don't do this). Never use similar weatherpack connectors facing the same way or too close to each other so it can lay flat. Remember all will have to be removed for wrapping so when it goes back in there wont be any question about what connector goes where. Then remove the harness, use your favorite friction tape for an oem look secure the ends with 3m super 88 and finish with corrugated tubing for protection.

Check and double check everything, be cautious about electrostatic charges, and remember ecu's don't supply power only ground. This last part is really whats important.

[ganun]

Been away for a while but i'll toss in my 2cents keebs...stock pistons are a bad idea, they break the lands.

For years I`ve been running 92.507 mm forged pistons with no issues, reason for the 0.86mm oversize was the availability

of rings of that size off the shelf gapless. (3.642").

The best plug I found after 12 years of running a Danielson head is the NGK CR9EK.

I sold the Dani cam to someone in Cali IIRC, I think it was Joe G who said it wouldn`t work with an automatic and I put it in and he was right, had to take it out. Only good for the hiway and to get into the cam at 4500 I was going waaayyy to fast, think over 100mph.

BTW I still have the waste gate actuator that came with the Danielson 240 kit, never installled because it does not fit the stock water cooled 89 turbo, maybe it was for the N9T only. Its available.....

some pics......

[keebs]

Are your pistons custom, and if not what engine are they from.

[Bean]

They were custom as I remember pictures of the dish machined into them... (Quite sure anyways!)

Curious what the thoughts on going to 94mm are? V-M went to 96mm to fit Volvo or Ford pistons, but then had to deck the block quite a bit (10mm IIRC) which threw cam timing off. The 96mm bore was fine though and his machinist said the block could easily handle it.

I figured 94mm wasn't as extreme and the billet air cooled 94mm pistons are a popular choice in other similar custom builds. Add a shallow N9T dish and adjust pin height to get proper deck protrusion with the 2JZ rods - if those work)

Thought being towards bigger displacement, higher compression, 15-18psi max boost build.

Rabin

[keebs]

Bigger is always better, unless the head gasket gets stretched too thin. I went with 92.5mm pistons because they fit the 2jz rod specs.

[V-M]

As I sayed some earlier topic I would not recommend go over 94mm. I would keep it under it if possible. And those original pistons are not taking nearly any knocking. One thing I noticed at even same settings it knocks so easy with hot engine. But when mixing or buying race fuel knocking is gone. In summer time I use all my cars that shell 99+octane if available (only good gasoline around here). In winter time it does not mater cause most of time its -C degrees and not recon any power loose (only grip is gone) If things go planned I'll start building my new engine in 2 weeks. This alco amount in current gasoline are not working nicely on these old fashioned gas comb engines. With better flow characteristic (from inlet all the way to exhaust) and better engine management it (current gasolines) works.

That 96mm was educating exp but costly (also time wise)

V-M

P.S this was my 505 post on forums

[keebs]

Recently I talked to an engineer about ethanol blended fuels, here's what he had to say. Basically there's not so much a problem with the fuels, the problem is us. It starts with the wideband calibration. If tuning while calibrated for gasoline you will run lean on e10 blend. He says tuning and monitoring should be performed in lambda due inconsistent ethanol content. The e10 should suppress det because of its cooling effect. Gasoline stoich 14.7, e10 14.1, e85 9.7. Lambda stoich for all fuels is always 1. It's easy to see how a narrowband would muck things up for everyday driveability.

[Bean]

Thanks for clarifying V-M! I was writing from memory and those were the points that stuck.

Very interested in how you make out with the new engine build, and very curious what size you go with.

JE already has the specs for a forged 92.5mm piston, so it should be easy enough to spec out custom pin height and size to match the rods.

Cometic has the pattern for the N9Txx, and they can do custom thickness and bore sizes no problem.

Personally I'd like to go as large displacement as possible, but long term reliability is also a consideration. George running 92.5's for 12 years is a pretty darn good endorsement.

Flip side is if I don't do 94mm, wondering "what could have been" would be tough.

Cost will be the biggest factor unless something comes up which rules out going with 94mm bores.

Now to see what rod selection works best.

Rabin

[V-M]

Yeah... but how many 80's or 90's cars are having wb with self tuning ecu yeah some after market installations. surely even re85 can be used (after pump and lines etc is changed). But with these old systems and engines this ethanol is not giving any good sides. (there I need to correct my self... here in cold countries it was in since 60's very common to add 1-2dl ethanol/methanol in each tank fill to prevent ice in carb and tank).

V-M

[my3AWDgst]

I'm very exited to see how my DSM-MI16 Hybrid will run on E85,I also want to fit 1g DSM front strut and knuckle to my MI16 so I can run bigger brakes.

[Bean]

V-M - I'm curious if you ever manipulated the stock ECU by adding resistance to the O2 sensor, and adjusting the spring in the VAF so that you could trick it into providing more fuel? Joe mentioned doing it to run Bosch 804 injectors so you would think you could do some basic tuning to get it a bit better?

No substitute for a proper stand alone, but at least it would have some ability to compensate for the added fuel requirement.

Rabin

[V-M]

I used std ones on those, I only added adjustable fuel pressure cap and added more 0.5-0.6bar pressure (old pump did not give more and it dropped 0.1-0.2 when boost) and adjust boost to 0.8-0.9bar peaking 1bar. I think those was only ones from mixture pow. Those changes u mentioned are are common ones but I decided to use fuel pressure cause easy to adjust and neat installation.

U ment water temp resistance I think, to ecu provide richer mixture (cold engine)?

I have currently those original Bosch 300. And will set all same way to new engine to ensure at all works as before and then start to install all those bits collected during years 600cc inj.. Megasq etc. tempting to put two Garret GT17 (have some extra on self) just for fun and experiment also bought fuel pump bosch -044 for more pressure and flow

V-M

[V-M]

I have used these c8e plugs mainly with dani head and cam, tested cr9ek but there was some probs when cold weather or someting (cant remember for sure) Still have them and try when new set up is running.

V-M

[Bean]

I've never run anything but stock set ups, but Joe Grubbs had done quite a bit with his friend Jonathan years ago. I've read messing with temp sensor resistance as well for tuning similar Nippon Denso systems, and it should work similarly on L-Jet - but I've never done it myself.

http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2845-need-buying-advice-n9tea-injectors/#entry21583

So V-M - what's the new piston/rod recipe for the new engine?

Rabin

[keebs]

I fiddled with the l-jet a good bit before it got replaced. I played with the afm, put in resistors, adjusted fuel pressure, you name it I did it. While it ran pretty good, full load enrichment only happened above 3000rpm. The best I got it to run was with the o2 sensor disconnected. With the wideband idle was 13.5-14 and would smoothly transition 11-11.5 wot. The drawback was fuel consumption and a lot of it.

[V-M]

I'll go with same set up as Tama did and I have build one engine with same setup to other finland hobbyist some years ago. Volvo B21ET 92mm pistons and saab conrods, cheap and easy build. Those pistons are hard to find (new or used) but can be done. Those engines are used also in us version of 740 turbo (my father did have imported one). I did buy my piston set from sweden around 100e including postage. Set of conrods was 50e.

have some fade memories talking about it with joe years ago.

V-M

[Bean]

I tried finding Saab con rods after Tama posted, but I couldn't find anything. I even had a Volvo buddy check with his brother who has built Saab race motors and he couldn't find a spare set either.

2JZ aftermarket rods will be easy to find, hopefully I can just order 4, or maybe we can find another person to split 2 sets of 6 into 3 sets of 4.

I've waited so long to build this motor up that I don't mind spending money on custom pistons and rods.

Rabin

[Stewart]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/like/200761145435?limghlpsr=true&hlpv=2&ops=true&viphx=1&hlpht=true&lpid=107

[my3AWDgst]

Rabin just 4g63 swap it :-)

[keebs]

I've heard of srt4 engines bolted to ax15 transmissions from jeeps which was the alternative to the ba10/5. So a new bell housing and some motor mounts might do it.

[my3AWDgst]

WOW nice! I would love to see that swap.

[Bean]

There's no fun in swapping a 4G63 Savo... Besides - If I do all the work to swap something in its going to be a sweet V8. Preferably an SRT8 6sp manual... (Regular Dodge hemi 5.7 5sp will suffice as well)

If I did swap an I4 the new Eco-boost 2.3 in the new Mustang would be tempting once they're more common and easily obtained. 310 HP is pretty decent stock.

Rabin

[my3AWDgst]

4g63 only runs 6's and up to 1200 HP so I guess it's not worth it ;-)

What about 2JZ???

[Bean]

You'll notice my build is for super fast spool, responsive hole shot power that will make daily driving a pleasure. Your 6 second 1200HP 4G63 would be a steaming pile of poo as a daily driver... I do seriously respect the 4G63 and itd make total sense for you to tackle the swap with your knowledge levels. I know squat about them.

Being a Volvo guy as well - Id consider a white block I5 bolted to a T5 or a T56 - power delivery is fantastic, great aftermarket, and an I5 at full chat makes the hair on my neck stand up.

2JZ is too long, too much weight forward of the wheel center plane.

All alloy v8 tucked up against the firewall would still have decent weight balance, V8 sound, and linear power delivery. As a fun car, a V8 505 would be a ton of fun, and that v8 sound and instant throttle response would be worth all the work.

I think with modern turbo technology and good tuning I can make the N9TXX rival any swap with my power goals in mind (~300HP). With fast spool, AND decent reponse, it should be just fine. Biggest draw is that anyone can do an engine swap, the challenge of building the N9TE is half the fun.

Rabin