N9TE Posted April 3, 2014 Report Share Posted April 3, 2014 So, I'm moving ahead on my BHG. Head comes off today. Intake came off yesterday. It had 0 280 150 802 injectors and not the spec 0 280 150 200.I'm not going to be boosting more than stock. Car ran fine, started and idled fine. I can have these cleaned.Or would you recommend something else.Here are the specs: Part Number lbs/hr cc /min grams /min PSI BARS lbs/hr cc /min 80% 95% Feed Impedance 0-280-150-802 27.02 284 204.3 43.5 3 27.02 284 41.6 49.4 Top Low 0-280-150-200 28.6 300.6 216.2 43.5 3 28.6 300.6 44 52.3 Top Low Thanks,K o l l Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 Euro spec was 803's, but if your just sticking with stock boost then either would suffice... 89' boosts to 12 psi vs ~9 psi of previous cars, so having 200's might be better peace of mind. Let me check my spares - I may have 200's that you can have for the cost of shipping - I'd just request you have them cleaned and flowed. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted April 4, 2014 Report Share Posted April 4, 2014 I would buy EVO 560 cc injectors if I was you. They are good up to 400 HP on pump gas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted April 6, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 6, 2014 > Let me check my spares - I may have 200's that you can have for the cost of shipping - I'd just request you have them cleaned and flowed. Rabin, if you still have them, let me know. PayPal? Savo, I'm going to keep the engine stock. The number of running N9T engines has to be under a couple of hundred at this point and parts have all but dried up. If this engine takes a dump on me, I'll just swap in another engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted April 7, 2014 Report Share Posted April 7, 2014 This brings back memories from discussions a long time ago on Peugeot-L. The original parts fiche stated the N9TEA had the 200 injectors, and weirdly, a 3 bar FPR. The cars I've seen all have the same 802 injectors and 2.5 bar FPR of the N9TE. Later versions of the parts fiche indicate this as well. There was some speculation about this; Was it a typo, or did Peugeot intend the higher boost car to have that extra fueling, only to be downgraded for emissions compliance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Apologies Koll - In my garage clean up I collected all the various sets I had, and neatly packed them into plastic totes and I labelled all the totes with the contents of each on masking tape... Cheap ass masking tape from the dollar store or somewhere... Said crappy tape can now be found on floor in front of the shelving units - and I've yet to find which tote has the injectors in it... I have Friday off, and I hope to be able to find it before our trip to Vancouver - my goal is to make sure they're sent off before we go. This all assumes you still need them, and I really hope this hasn't held you back at all from getting your car back on the road. If everything is OK and you still want them - just PM your mailing address. (I'll even send at my cost cause I took so damn long.) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Back you your comments Joe - do you happen to remember the trick for tuning the factory systems to run the larger 803 injectors? (337cc/min IIRC). I actually have some 1G DSM (I think?) ones that are ~450cc). I'm wanting to tune the stock ECU for another idea for doing up a DD 505 Turbo - I just want a fun car that's just tuned within the stock systems... It will have a T3/T4 hybrid turbo though just cause I have it already - so I want to make sure it's got enough fuel to push 15-17 psi... The 89' will still me my "halo" car with my VEMS install I think I might go all out and use ID1000's... They're not as expensive as I thought, and for a little bit more I have massive headroom and can basically tune the motor for whatever turbo is strapped to it. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Yes 1g DSM are black top and 2g DSM are blue in color. They are both 450cc. T3/4 may be a bit too big as they are not that efficient at low PSI on small engines. I woud try using 20g or something simular in that size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 They're 2G then as they're blue. Turbo was custom built by Forced Performance specifically for the car - I expect it to be laggy, but curious what its like. Bryan Cohn bought August's project car that also had a T3/T04 hybrid and he said it was a bit laggier but was much stronger on boost... I have a TD04L-19T in my 00'R and its a nice turbo for fast spool, the K24 in the 06'R is even better... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The reason I'm saying all this is because I have played with T25,16g,20g,T3/4 SB,GT3582r BB and GT4202r BB turbo's and all of those were on my cars.Anything in T3/T4 frame on small displacement engines and 5500RPM redline will not be that great for DD or track use.It will spool up late 3500-4000 RPM and power will run out soon do to lack of RPM.If you are still running stock cam it may help better with spool but with 280 cam and 5500 RPM I would not go with T3/4 frame turbos. My favorite Turbo set up for the street was T3/T4 60 trim SB on stock cams,it would be spooled by 4000 RPM and I REVed it to 7500 and it was a great power band. GT3582r with 280's was still good street set up but I REVed it up to 9000 RPM and it would be spooled by 4700 RPM,so it was not that great for DD or cruise and head work with 280's did not help. Now with 294's and GT4202r (76mm) I will be lucky to see full boost at 6000 RPM and it will need to be REVed to 10000 RPM. Now all off this was a great lesson and it made me go back to my old set up on my second Spyder for street use.Stock head,stock IM with 1g 60mm TB,T3/T4 57 trim made it very street friendly. I did go back to 280 cam which it may be too aggressive for the street but Kelford cam airflow it's amazing. Yes I did go with L19 head studs,MHG,and better valve springs so head stays in place.I love that 4000-8500RPM power band. And I use E85 for fuel on both cars. I'm not trying to be negative here Rabin just sharing my experience and trying to help you out to get the best results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 Also boost levels were 35 PSI on T3/4 and 40 PSI on GT3582r. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 The stock T3 runs a proprietary exhaust housing, and while it uses the T3 guts and bearings the flange is closer to a T25 size, and the exhaust is a tiny .36 A/R. Forced Performance (DSM famous) machined the stock compressor housing to accept a bigger/better compressor wheel. I don't know the specs as I bought it all as an unfinished project... So it's not a traditional T3/T4 which is why I can't comment on how it will perform. I have it - so I figure I'll try it out and try to tweak the stock a system as much as possible, or see about upgrading using Volvo LH bits... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted April 18, 2014 Report Share Posted April 18, 2014 ^^^that sounds much better^^^ Yeah FP will replace my steal wheel and upgrade to billet one. FP is huge DSM and EVO world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 Back you your comments Joe - do you happen to remember the trick for tuning the factory systems to run the larger 803 injectors? (337cc/min IIRC). I My memory is foggy on this... I played with a few things and used somewhat admittedly rudimentary methods to figure out how to get the low/part load trim just right while still enjoying the fruits of the extra injector flow rate at high boost. Given how pedantic we were back then, I think we also stole a page from Peugeot's book with the '85 XN6 and added a 560 ohm resistor in series with the O2 sensor to ensure the idle CO adjustment point was centered--giving us the near-stock adjustment range. We measured the BID (Basic Injection Duration) output pin of the Injection ECU to figure out the AFM tension adjustment using an oscilloscope. The Injection ECU generates the BID by calculating air intake density (combo of AFM position, air temp, altitude), and that is chopped up via the ignition pulse. At this point, the Injection ECU has not applied correction from the O2 sensor or full-load circuits. This BID signal feeds the Ignition ECU and this along with the TPS is what it uses to calculate engine load and pick the correct ignition advance value from ROM. Another important note is that the Ignition ECU determines when the engine should get full load enrichment, and when the time comes, it triggers the "WOT" pin on the Injection ECU. That is of course how the L-Jet Injection ECU gets by without a conventional Bosch throttle position sensor. So with all of that said, *I think* we ended up striking the balance with 3 notches. This gave us nearly the same theoretical injector volume at low/part load with the 804 injectors that would occur with the 200 injectors, plus with the resistor trick, setting idle mixture was easy peasy (6.8-7.2 volts at the test lead). If you're going from 802 injectors (a la an N9TE) to 804s, I'm not sure how the math would work out. Given the percent difference in flow rate between the 802 and 200, and assuming the AFM spring tension is linear enough at such a small scale, maybe 6 notches would do it (assuming the 3 is the correct in the first place)? Is any of this clear as mud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 I've never had the AFM apart, so the tension adjustment is the 'muddy' part... Volvo 240 guys do an upgrade to Bosch 2.4 LH systems which also happens to be reverse engineered and can be retuned... Years ago I also played with using Turbo Dodge SMEC speed density system - and I still might consider that as the LH conversion would need a 60-2 pattern machined into the flywheel... I need that for VEMS as well - so maybe I get two done... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted April 19, 2014 Report Share Posted April 19, 2014 It's not so bad. Basically the flap is controlled by a clock spring. The tension/preload is set by a toothed plastic ring and a simple spring loaded clip that locks into one of the teeth. Hold the plastic ring in place and carefully pull back the clip. Use a lot of caution because if you let go of the ring, the clockspring will unravel and you'll never get the tension back where it needs to be . Just tighten the tension/preload one tooth at a time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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