Just thinking aloud about my 505 here...

[ohms]

been mulling this over for a while now, and i've pretty much made up my mind, i think. (heh, still some wavering there i guess)

Shes the best daily driver i've ever had. And my gf and i have sentimental attachment to her. but the more i plot and plan future mods and whatnot, i keep getting hung up on the XN6 plant. shes just too damn slow. and the work to swap drivetrains is not worth it when i think i can find another one with a more powerful drivetrain to use as a base car. Shes clean and i get asked if shes for sale often enough that i think i could find a buyer when the time comes (summer i'll sell her - gf needs her as the daily driver during school season). I'd like to cut up the bumpers and tuck em in, "euro" style, give her fresh paint, and really get into the interior with some dynamat and a good sound system, and other custom touches. but that would easily make her a project car that i'd be putting a lot of money and time into, and never really be happy with what happens when i put my foot to the floor =P

i've read up on drivetrain swaps, and even modding the 4banger, but for cost and labor (mine or a shops) i can totally see that i wouldnt be up for it. i saw that burgundy v6 in the for sale forum and it really got me thinking more on this, i guess. shes a great daily driver in every way, but when even my gf (who likes to razz me with "whats the point of 300 horsepower, i mean, really?!") says its kind of a pain trying to merge on the highway (and i can verify it is, i've had to just get in peoples way and raise my hand apologetically more than once), i have to admit my lil puggy isnt cut out for the kind of driving and use we need her to do. once she gets going tho, she does alright. the handling is so neutral and controllable. i love leaving behind sportier newer cars in the bends or highway offramps =)

just venting/sighing here, i guess. im gonna keep her in top shape, and still restore bits of her here and there that wont cost me much, but my plan is to sell her in the summer. i think (haha - i cant commit to declaring it!).

[Ikenna]

Ohms, Ii can feel what you are going through. These were the things i considered before i made up my mind to buy 505 V6 instead of 505 GTI i initially planned to buy. Trust me, 505 with I4 engines are good units and durable as well. But it lacks power that would have maatched the body. It can be sluggish on highway most times, like you observed.

Inspite of the issues my V6 (ZN3J) is having: excessive fuel, hunting & stalling. The car still pulls like rocket once on a highway, even with the se problems that should impact adversely its performance. Once on the wheel, you can hardly remember the car has those issues because the engine is more than very powerful. I have never, even for once, regretted buying that car since it arrived, even with the issue in the engine bay. I kept asking myself "why on earth did Peugeot leave this line of production and why the discontinuation of PRVs?"

All am trying to say is if love your XN6, keep it. But if get across STX or GLX (the only V6 models in US) dont hesistate to purchase if you can afford it. You will never regret that decision. There is something about ZN3J that made it awesome, which no car i have driven had the same quality. Finding its way on 505 made it perfect, especially the RWD thing. The weight of the engine gives the car front and rear even weight distribution, especially on top speed, because of the engine weight & the sitting forward of the engine in the engine bay. I used 505 I4 and now V6 and could tell a lot of differences btw the two.

Ikenna.

[norcal505]

Have you considered a 5-speed swap?

I've done quite a bit of work to get mine around 'stage zero', and the car definately drives better than it did when I first pulled the tarp off of it.

I can admit that the power sucks sometimes, but that's what I've got the Bimmer for.

N9TXX swaps are pricey, but if you've got a stable job, why not go for it?

[Bean]

The 3sp auto makes the car an especially slow car... The 5-sp manual changes the whole demeanor of the car, and it's actually a fairly decent performer.

That said - you're way farther ahead buying a nice V6 car (for parts availability), or the turbo cars if you want ultimate perfromance. If I were to do it again - I'd be tempted to go for a sweet 89' STX 5-sp. That said - the turbo is much more of a project friendly car since there are so much to gain with mods to the turbo motor.

If you REALLY like your car a 5sp swap would actually be quite easy to do and be one of the best performance mods you could do to it. (Drive a 5-sp first though and see if it cuts it for you)

If you can't do the work yourself - I'd sell the car as a minty original car that it is, and upgrade to one of the later V6 or turbo cars. Once you drive a newer more powerful car you'll totally be sold.

Just be aware that parts availability for the Turbo is getting a bit slim, the V6 seems to be a little better.

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

My first Peugeot had an XN6 engine. I too loved it--it's unpossibly simple, reliable, rugged, etc. But yes, it doesn't yield the highest horsepower/displacement ratio

Two things that would make a HUGE dent in performance are the compression ratio and the exhaust ports in the head. The intake ports and in fact the entire intake tract are awesome--in fact they might be a bit too large for maximum low-RPM torque. Some port matching and (if cost was no object) some extrude honing of the upper intake tract will also help.

Compression can be bumped via some OEM pistons from a late non-NA XN1A or XN2. They give an 8.8:1 compression ratio. Combine that with a shave on the head and you can get it to 9.x:1. With that higher compression comes a need for timing changes, so a late XN1 distributor from a 504 or an 80-81 505 XN6 distributor might fit the bill, possibly along with some spark plugs that are one step cool (Bosch WR6Dx vs WR7Dx, for instance).

A machine shop versed in 4 cylinder aluminum heads could handle some of the exhaust port work if you wanted to take that step. It's a major choke point of that head, which is otherwise a very nice piece.

You could also source the slightly larger XN1A exhaust manifold and downpipe from a non-NA car. These feature much longer downpipes before the merge, and they are larger diameter as well. This should yield a little better midrange torque. I believe the NA cars used the short downpipes in order to facilitate keeping the O2 sensor as close as possible to the engine for quick warm-up.

A mild cam regrind can't hurt, and if you know the specs, it isn't expensive. European car experts (mainly for German cars... the blowhards that I can't eff'n stand) all through the 80s and 90s swore that K-Jet/CIS injection needed really lame cam grinds. That may have been true on a small handful of cars but I've read a number of cases where this injection system handles camshaft upgrades just fine. In fact, there is some evidence that Bosch anticipated this when they designed the air flow sensor. The air flow sensor's movement is pretty slow to respond due to inertia. The combined mass of the plate, arm, counterweight (not to mention the resistance met with the fuel distributor's control plunger) add up.

[N9TE]

I would opt for an engine swap - out of Peugeot entirely. I'd opt for a modern turbo unit like the SR20DET Nissan. I was thinking of one of Toyota's beautiful inline 6s, but there's not enough room without major surgery - I measured. No other 4 offers the same bang for the buck. Toyota stuff is too pricey. Along with the Porsche options. Few North-South 4 banger world class engines exist anymore. Lots of good sidewinder engines... 3S Yota, that EcoTech they stick in the Cobalt, not to mention Hondas. But mating up a East-West engine would add lots of complexity (read $$$) to the already expensive option.

Just get a N9TE car and be done with it. Wait for one to come up and pay asking price. It'll be the cheapest go-fast 505 you can get.

[Bean]

For all the work of a swap needed - I keep on coming back to swapping in a V8...

Ford and GM are the popular donors, but being a Mopar guy and the history of the N9TE means I'd have to swap in a 5.7 hemi... Of if the lottery struck - SRT-8 6.1L with the 5-sp.

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

I've never been a fan of engine swaps, especially across brands. I think it ruins a car's identity, and that's something I think is really important. Worse yet (and let's be honest), except in the most special of circumstances, engine swaps add little or no market value to most cars. Of course, the owner of such a hybrid has a different view, though it may have a little bit to do with the huge sums of money he/she spent in creating it. I just prefer authenticity and originality I guess, call me weird. Take that from a guy that thinks bacon is gross, and not for religious reasons.

With that said, I think a V8 in the nose of a 505 would be freakin baller. And yes, a Hemi is only fitting given Peugeot's history with hemispherical combustion chambers, Chrysler's connection with French cars in the past, and the fact that it's just a cool engine.

Sometimes though, old fashioned tuning and hot rodding is really all a person needs. You're working with OE stuff, just making it a little better. It's rewarding (to me), and I think adds to the value of a car. Not everyone is looking for a fire breathing beast. Sometimes just a little bump in performance and balance is better. God I sound so sensible. What happened?

[Bean]

I should clarify the the V8 swap for me would only be considered if, and only if it was no longer feasible to keep the N9TE servicable... If a swap is the only remaining solution, I wouldn't mess around with 4's or 6's since it'd be damn near the same work to swap a V8 as any other engine...

I'm not there yet - so I'm pursuing a monster fire breathing N9TE running on VEMS...

If I blow it up after all the work I sink into it - a V8 solution will likely go to the top of the list. I'm pretty much on the same wavelength as I only like/prefer swap from within family lines if at all. Since that wouldn't be an option with the Peugeot's - may as well try for a loose connection that'd still be absurdly fun.

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

Haha exactly. If you're going to go nuts, why half step?

I look back on the days, just 10 years ago, when it seemed that finding parts for these cars (the Turbos especially) wasn't so hard. Now I read about you guys having trouble finding valve cover gaskets.

They had a good run and I really admire how so many of you are keeping these things on the road. I'm still looking for the perfect old Peugeot, but have yet to find one that really grabs my attention. Naturally I'm going for a XDx or an XN6 (for nostalgia sake). I also feel like those two engine families have the most readily available replacement parts out there currently. When I was in Argentina over the summer, I was absolutely floored by the sheer number of 504s and 505s equipped with either of those engines, still chugging along happily as either cabs or someone's daily driver. I wanted to take one home!

[Bean]

I keep coming back to a quote Jay Leno made about parts availability - something like "If it was made once, it can be made again..." Granted Jay had access to resourses a bit better than most - but the idea is good.

Most parts can be rebuilt, replaced, or retrofitted to use a different part all together. VC gaskets aren't an issue anymore (Madhu has them in stock), WP's can be rebuilt, GM alternators can be made to fit, and starters can be rebuilt.

All the engine internals are harder - but I'm planning on offset grinding the crank to use Mitsu rods and I'll get custom pistons made to suit the rods and the new bore size. All this is no more than anybody else building a monster motor - so in the great scheme of things I think owning an N9TE is still feasible - it's just not easy as owning a newer car with readily available parts...

There's no doubt the XN6 or the diesels have better parts availability, but I would on the outside say that a PRV is also pretty easy to get parts for. The Delorean guys have done an incredible job of ensuring parts availability.

Interesting side note: The eletronic throttle by wire module (Electronic throttle body) on my volvo is about to crap out. Known issue, and a rebuilt one with solid state wiper system (better than OEM) is $650, and is on order. Car can't be trusted till it's replaced - so we're taking the 505 Turbo for the 4 hour highway trip.

Rabin