swept Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 after searching for quite some time for oversize crankshaft bearings and conrod bearings I came up short so I bought a rebuild engine from europe. yes I am crazy but I really want to keep this car on the road. the new engine is a 1986 n9tea and my question is regarding the turbo...it is different from the 1985 turbo...there is a hose running from it that looks like a coolant hose that would hook up with the upper rad hose. Is that correct and can I get away without using it? thanks for any suggestions, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 23, 2014 Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 After '85 they used a water cooled centre section, and the hoses did indeed "T" into both the upper and thw lower rad hoses. These rad hoses have long been NLA, but I've made my own with plumbing parts and it works fine. The 85 turbo is oil cooled, and I'm quite sure it's slightly bigger than the N9TE cars. You can pretty much use which ever turbo you wish, but if you stay with the oil cooled turbo you should just be more vigilant about making sure to not shut the motor down with out idling it a bit. Awesome job getting the rebuild out of Europe! Few people would applaud that kind of dedication, but I can totally see the value in doing what you did. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 23, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2014 thanks for the reply Rabin, I guess it makes sense to make up a T port in the existing hose and keep the water cooled turbo on. although if I read your comments correctly, would the oil cooled turbo offer more boost since it is larger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 24, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2014 found the upper and lower rad hoses for the water cooled turbo so that is what will be staying. tomorrow is install so we'll see how it works out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 One thing to be aware of is the top mount intercooler is fed by a plastic underhood scoop that is fed by a different grill from the 85'. 86+ cars have the scoop mounting studs on the hood already, so unless yoj retrofit those parts to the 85, or put an external scoop to feed tbe top mount IC you should look at changing to a front mount IC. Looking forward to progress reports! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 25, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 good point about the underhood scoop...I don't have the 86 hood, so I will have to fabricate something. I'll make sure to post some pics when this happens. thx, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 25, 2014 Report Share Posted August 25, 2014 Easiest and most effective would be a small through the hood hoodscoop that feeds the stock intercooler location. Curious how the swap goes as well - Any detail on the engine you purchased? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 engine is in, have had to modify some things, I switched over the 85 throttle body to make the wiring work. will probably replace the thermostat housing because the one on the engine has the thermostat sensor blanked in, and the 85 sensor is a larger diameter. wondering though about the airflow sensor housing hose...it also has the small port blanked off. should I leave blanked off or attach the hose that is there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 I am interested in the through the hood scoop since I think that would offer cooler air anyway. would you have any pics or sources of these? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 ken, i think i speak for many of us when i say that, pics would be greatly appreciated (when you get the chance). there was never a factory through-the-hood scoop for the 505...if you do a google image search for race-prepped 505s, you'll see cars with hood scoops or fans over the intercooler. you'll probably need to go with something aftermarket... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 26, 2014 Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 What Andre said ^^ Hose that connects to the intake is the PCV hose from the valve cover. I would recommend connecting an oil separation unit inbetween so that oil vapour doesn't get into the intake. (Google Provent 200) Hood scoops: I've spent hours on this subject trying to figure the most effective scoop. NACA duct feeding the top, forward facing scoops (blow air down through IC), rear facing (Suck air out through IC), And even ducting into the heater intake area at the base of the windshield. What will determine what works best will determine which has the greatest airflow through the IC, and the only way to determine that is testing. Key to the best flow is establishing which method gives you the greatest pressure drop on each side of the intercooler. Apologies for my nerdness - I analyse everything! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2014 sorry about the lack of pictures...last night I couldn't figure out how to post a picture, but here some are (it was getting dark so the picture of the airhose sensor is too dark to see, but the blanked off port is the small white port facing toward the front of the engine, the loose hose is sitting next to it. It is not the pcv hose to the valve cover). I'll be sure to take some better pictures when I deal with the intercooler setup. thanks for the replies Andre and Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 27, 2014 Report Share Posted August 27, 2014 there is a regular contributor to this forum, he goes by nick@nite; nick's family are longtime peugeot dealers -- they sold the cars new back in the day and they still service peugeots for many people in new england (they're in vermont). they have also been racing peugeots for many years....if you do some digging on this forum, you'll find his race-prepped turbo that uses a fan over the intercooler. i don't remember which way the fan blows, i *do* remember discussion between rabin and nick about that topic. you'll also find pictures on the internet of that same car with a hood scoop (an earlier build, i assume).... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Pretty sure they used pusher fans - but I'm not certain. While great for competition and hillclimbs, the fan likely isn't a great solution for a daily driver. If I were to do it I would cut the hole in the hood and then tape some tinsel or similar to the core and the take it up to speed. Whether the tinsel is sucked down or blowing up would determine which way I vented air through it with a scoop. If you have a preference, you can engineer flow by doing another vent to the under side of the IC - Route the underside vent to high or low pressure area as needed. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 It should use puller fans as heat is rising so pushing it down would create big heat soak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 28, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 thanks for the replies. the stock arrangement of the 505 intercooler location never looked ideal to me. It seems that the best mounting position for the intercooler would be at the front of the vehicle for the maximum flow of cool air. I don't think I would mount a fan on the hood even if it would work...still care about the aesthetics of the vehicle. having said that i am going to look for the stock hood setup for now. If that draws a blank I will look at trying to work a front mount. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Savo - Convection would be no match for a fan, so whether it pushed or pulled it would blow air through. I'd argue that it would be better to push cool outside air down through it than potentially suck hot engine compartment air out... Now if the engine compartment is a high pressure area at speed, that might overpower the fan, but it'd be east to test. Totally moot I realize - but still fun to discuss. Ken - biggest reason for a top mount is packaging. It's way cheaper to do a turbo model with a top mount as its way easier to assemble in production, and very little changes are needed to the car itself. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Hot air that is coming out of the engine and IC,so that hot air will be forced down by the fan and cool it down??? Might as well remove IC and run just hot pipe. I would love to see dyno resaults with out fan and with fan set up. Or just make a hood scoop like Subaru cars have it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 Ken isn't doing the scoop or the fan - so it's just you and I debating a point about air flow which we can do in a new thread instead of in here (if you want). Ken - another option I've looked at for my cars is a water cooled intercooler. Some neat systems out there - but like everything else, it has it's pros and cons as well. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted August 28, 2014 Report Share Posted August 28, 2014 aesthetics are important...we're talking about cars designed by pininfarina here... but everyone has different taste. some people like the more aggressive look of a hood scoop. if it was me, i'd look for a 505 turbo hood with the under hood duct assembly; it's basically invisible and does the job.... if you must have a hood scoop, my favorite is the hood scoop from the porsche 924 carrera gts: it replaced the NACA duct that the regular 924 turbo had. there are lots of kits to convert 924s to carrera gts' so it would be easy to source the parts. it's not small, though, and it might look funny on a car without the right "stance..." andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted August 29, 2014 Author Report Share Posted August 29, 2014 I actually like that hood scoop on the 924, but for now I am going to try to stay stock. do you think I could temporarily run the car without the underhood scoop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swept Posted September 9, 2014 Author Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 engine sounds great at idle and up to 2500 rpm. just purrs, but over 2500 it suddenly cuts out. after a second or so it comes back so it looks like it is starved for fuel at higher rpm? new plugs, wires, distributor cap and ignition coil so i don't think it is an ignition problem. any ideas? thanks, Ken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebs Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Check the spark plug color (black rich, white lean), timing, tps, ntc, afm, any one of these could give this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Is this in gear and under load - or just no load revving in neutral? If it's in gear it sounds like the overboost circuit is being engaged - but 2500 is pretty low to overboost, but it might be worth checking the sensor and the wiring. (2 wire sensor on the elbow just before the throttle body). Timing is another thing - make sure it's right at 8 degrees, and make sure you have the TPS adjustment done. (See tech section) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted September 9, 2014 Report Share Posted September 9, 2014 Color in spark plugs? That work only when using lead contained fuels. Seen some changes in plug color only if something is really wrong (not working at all). Also u can disconnect that over boost circuit and try sofly if it makes diff. Those over boost switches I have was from 1,0-1,4bar limit. Sounds like stucked wastegate (common prob). V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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