N9TEA Electrovalve routing

[N9TE]

Hi all, this is mainly for Rabin and Stefan, but how do you hook up the boost controller (electrovalve)?

Here is a picture of the unit:

Here is a picture of how it mounts in the car:

And here's a PDF from the manual about the item. Unfortunately, there is no more documentation available. The unit does not have any designations (A, on the ports.

PDF

Can someone with a functional N9TEA look and let me know where the three ports connect up to? Facing straight-on to the unit, there is the:

left port:

center port:

right port:

Thanks!

[Bean]

I'll double check on my car later tonight, but that schematic seems clear to me...

Left port(B)is pre-turbo somewhere between turbo and air filter (guessing filtered atmospheric), center port(b)goes to the wastegate, right port(A)is the boost signal off the turbo outlet housing.

Turbo theory says a cleaner signal for boost is from the intake manifold instead of the turbo housing (A), so you might want to try that after verifying functionality off the turbo housing. (Plug off the fitting on the turbo outlet of course). I've tried manual boost controllers on my 86' and it didn't like the intake signal at all, but this might be different.

The other thing I wanted to do with mine was to run silicone lines, or ideally hard lines so that the boost signals are super crisp. I did hard lines for the boost control circuit in the pro-rally car and it was crazy how crisp boost control was compared to the rubber vacuum lines that were stock. For the rally car I used pneumatic signal control stuff with rigid plastic lines and these neat couplers so you could disassemble / reassemble easily. Brake line would suffice as well.

Rabin

[bryancohnracing]

To hell with the hose routing, who knew that anything happened in Monaco besides gambling, buying high prices shoes and F1?

[JunktionFET]

If it still has the paint dots, the green dot goes to the compressor outlet, the red dot goes to the wastegate, and the unmarked one goes to the rubber intake hose.

[N9TE]

If it still has the paint dots, the green dot goes to the compressor outlet, the red dot goes to the wastegate, and the unmarked one goes to the rubber intake hose.

No paint dots of any kind on it. If I guess and hook them up per Rabin's suggestion, where is the compressor outlet?

Thanks for everybody's help on this!

Koll

[JunktionFET]

From what I recall, the center port with the restrictor was the "green dot", which would be to the compressor housing (the 90 deg piece screwed into the turbocharger's aluminum housing--just below where it couples to the intercooler pipe). The "red dot" usually faced more towards the firewall, and attaches to the wastegate actuator. The third port, which normally faces more towards the front of the car, attaches to the accordion hose (to the port that was used for the Evap system on the 85-87 Turbos). And of course, the Evap line on the '88-up Turbos attached to a "new" port on the throttle body instead.

Now, I might have the "red dot" port backwards... it's been a while since I poked my head under the hood of a Turbo . A quick and dirty test is to blow air into the center (restrictor) port with the electrovalve unpowered and out of the car. The "red dot" dot port is the one that air will exit from. No air should come out of the other port at all while the valve is unpowered. In other words, imagine that if you installed the electrovalve but left it disconnected (electrically), it would function as though it wasn't there at all.

[N9TE]

Awesome information. Thanks!

Nobody could screw that up now! (you just wait...)

I'll let you guys know what happens.

Oh yeah, thanks for mentioning the <87 evap-to-accordion connection. I remember that one well and now that all makes sense!

[Bean]

Did you get a chance to verify that the boost solenoid worked? At the very least I'd make sure it didn't leak by blowing into it like Joe mentioned... Should be able to actuate it manually to verify that it functions with a 12v supply to it.

Rabin

[N9TE]

Yes, I did and it looks like that was correct. Air blown into green dot (center port) exists through red dot (firewall port)! So far so good.

I could not find the green dot port. I pulled the first intercooler pipe (turbo to IC pipe) and for the life of me, found nothing.

Here is a picture with the camera near the HVAC blower motor pointing down:

Here is a picture about where the air cleaner is, pointing down:

Wow, you see that boss on picture #2? Could it be that the turbo was replaced with a generic housing that didn't have the port?

[N9TE]

Spoke too soon. Look what I found:

What's a suitable workaround? Tap the I/C pipe? How critical is it's proximity to the impeller?

[JunktionFET]

In your second photo, look at the top center... that brown square thing with the small hose attached (with what looks like a factory crimp style hose clamp). The other end of that hose probably still connects to the wastegate.

[N9TE]

Yes, there are two inlets on the wastegate. One is not connected to anything. Here is the picture of the bottom.

[JunktionFET]

Wow that's an unusual wastegate actuator, as all of the ones I've ever seen have just one connection. Yours must have a port on either side of the diaphragm, or something.

[Bean]

First - I was a bit confused so I circled the boost fitting on the compressor housing to make sure - this hose should be going to the wastegate. see attached.

Now this dual port WG had me intrigued so I spent the last hour researching it. I think I have it down:

Single port begin opening the wastegate before they actually reach the desired boost limit and lengthens the time it takes to reach that limit. So what this dual port design does is it runs the boost signal to both ports. With equal boost pressure applied to both sides of the diaphragm, the WG stays closed allowing the boost to reach a prescribed limit quicker because there's no WG creep. (Creep would be when the WG opens slowly as pressure builds) If the pressure at both ports remain equal then the WG will remain closed by the spring pressure.

An electronic boost controller is then used to vent the top hose to atmosphere and when it does that the pressure on the bottom port should open the WG quickly for a nice precise boost control.

Back to your set up - if what I read is what you have, it should work, but boost would be whatever the spring pressure is. You can get more by increasing tension on the WG with the rod, but ideally the solenoid should correct it. Tensioning that rod will make it respond a tad quicker though as the rod will have to move less distance to open.

Sorry - it's 1:30 AM so I may need to edit this for clarity later.

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

That's a pretty clever design if I'm honest. My only gripe with such a design is that it seems as though it would amplify the one thing that I absolutely hate about turbocharging; The slug or jolt of power when boost "comes on". It's bad enough as it is, but it sounds like this would eliminate the tiny "cushion" and result in more of an on-off transition. But who knows.

[N9TE]

Yup, circled item is the port he was talking about.

Hmmm... Interesting stuff. However, I'm not so sure.

I think the Waste Gate Controller (WGC) diaphragm is from another application done by a previous mechanic.

Reasons I think this:

I searched the fiches and didn't find the WG Controller (single or dual).

I see no reference to a dual WGC in any of the factory manuals.

Not on the archives of Peugeot-L.

My only concern is that the diaphragm is of a different resistance than OEM and that might cause problems. I'd have to R&R it in that case and that means I'd be pulling the exhaust and turbo.

So, I'm gonna hook it up like JunctionFET and yourself suggested and seeing what happens.

[andrethx]

hey koll, some context for those of us watching this from the cheap seats -- is this investigation part of getting your 89 sorted out?

wrt to dual-inlet wastegates, i had always heard about them in the context of race cars, using manual wastegate control...

andré

[Bean]

It's a double edge sword as this design should allow faster spool, and crisper boost control. So while it will hit harder, it should happen sooner, and with stock boost limits it shouldn't be too harsh.

What's buggin' me now is how you could plumb this so that you're using the wastegate as it's designed.

I'm thinking you could leave it as it is now, then run a hose from the other port to the intake. Tee into that new line and run it to the boost source on the solenoid. Route the hose from the solenoid that was supposed to go to the wastegate to the intake so it's venting the boost. You'd either have to leave the hose that supposed to go to the intake alone - or you might have to cap it off.

In my head that should work with the existing solenoid - but feel free to shoot the theory down... It'd be neat if you could make use of it and have it improve boost response and control. No idea why someone would disable the system though...

Rabin

[Bean]

WGC is definitely aftermarket - not stock. Most likely a Turbonetics one as that's what I saw referenced.

These are either used as normal with the other port left to atmosphere like you have, or it has to be used with a Electronic boost controller as it has to be vented to atmosphere so that pressure differential is what opens the WGC. A MBC would not work Andre...

Rabin

[N9TE]

What's buggin' me now is how you could plumb this so that you're using the wastegate as it's designed.

I'm thinking you could leave it as it is now, then run a hose from the other port to the intake. Tee into that new line and run it to the boost source on the solenoid. Route the hose from the solenoid that was supposed to go to the wastegate to the intake so it's venting the boost. You'd either have to leave the hose that supposed to go to the intake alone - or you might have to cap it off.

In my head that should work with the existing solenoid - but feel free to shoot the theory down... It'd be neat if you could make use of it and have it improve boost response and control. No idea why someone would disable the system though...

Rabin

Yup, it's the 1989 N9TEA car!

Ya, I see what you're saying. However, I just assumed as a working theory that the WGC would work just like a standard one and plumbed it up as you and J-FET said. And, it worked. Boosted nicely. Boost gauge went to 2/3 on full throttle @ 3K RPMs and up. Car (obviously) is a whole bunch faster. Not sure if I'm going to plumb the other side of the diaphragm into the intake. Realistically, the electrovalve will pop open the bypass valve on throttle snap, so I'm not worried.

It looks like I'll have to to a classic "Grubbs" tune. Tossed a 5, 1 code. He did an awesome writeup on that once. Anybody got it handy?

So, I get 5 blinks and pause and then one. Is that two codes (potentiometer and detonation)?

[JunktionFET]

I'm about to do a mega awesome tune on my '90 Prelude track car. So far I've cleaned the throttle body, reset the minimum throttle angle, etc. Ahhh, brought back a lot of old Peugeot-ish memories.

[Bean]

Really good to hear boost control is function and all you had to do was hook it back up! I agree performance difference would be very minute between the stock boost control, and making use of that second port. Still curious what effect it would have - but my guess would that you wouldn't be able to tell.

5.1 is the NTC sensor... Mine does it too, and I've just replaced the NTC sensor and still get the same 5.1 code. It doesn't do anything to timing or anything, so it shouldn't affect performance according to the manual.

I also still get the intermittent low level coolant light flashing as well - did you fix that with yours?

"Grubbs tune" is in the tech resources section I believe...

Rabin

[Bean]

I'm about to do a mega awesome tune on my '90 Prelude track car. So far I've cleaned the throttle body, reset the minimum throttle angle, etc. Ahhh, brought back a lot of old Peugeot-ish memories.

Is it a 4WS car? A buddy had one and it was awesome. Interesting note - Ford had a 4WS Prelude as a benchmark car in their R&D shop in the mid to late 90's...

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

I got the ALB version (Honda's anti-lock brake system), because I wanted ABS. Like the Teves Mk2 it is a 3 channel system (rear wheels controlled together), but that's good enough for me. I plan to add the 4WS hardware to it, which is a pretty easy swap. All it needs is the 4WS front steering rack, and the addition of the center steering shaft and the rear steering rack.

So far the car has been a thorn in my side. Like any old Honda it leaks oil as if it was made in England, though I've gotten mine down to just seeping. I've got a mix of strategically placed polyurethane and OEM rubber bushings, and of course I've maxed out the camber adjustment on the upper control arms at all corners

I'm not going to make VIR with it this coming weekend, but I hope to bring it out later in the month. My super lightweight Kosei K1 TS wheels arrived the other day, and that made me pretty happy.

[N9TE]

Really good to hear boost control is function and all you had to do was hook it back up! I agree performance difference would be very minute between the stock boost control, and making use of that second port. Still curious what effect it would have - but my guess would that you wouldn't be able to tell.

5.1 is the NTC sensor... Mine does it too, and I've just replaced the NTC sensor and still get the same 5.1 code. It doesn't do anything to timing or anything, so it shouldn't affect performance according to the manual.

I also still get the intermittent low level coolant light flashing as well - did you fix that with yours?

Ah, good! Low level coolant? Funny you should mention that. I got it too. Probably needs to be bled properly, but while working on this boost controller thing, I noticed some coolant on the floor. At first I thought it was the water pump (!), but not I'm not sure. It could be the lower hose. I'll have to watch it very closely.

"Grubbs tune" is in the tech resources section I believe...

I tried searching the archives here as well as the pinned tech articles. But it's not there. Jim Lill's server has been barfing up 403s for the past 3 years. His TPS adjustment is there, but he had this big 2 page tune post.