avantgarde Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 So, I took a trip to France a few years ago. Wonderful WONDERFUL place. I intend to make my way there eventually. (Clermont-Ferrand area in the Auvergne region)Well anyway, Wonderful people wonderful country side, and it reminded me we had Peugeots here at one point. I wanted to get my "french tickle" so I ended up stumbling upon a Peugeot 505 Turbo 5spd For Sale in Columbus Ohio by a guy named Dave Lamb...Well long story short, he failed to tell me the extent to which this car was clapped out... I paid 1200 for a car that in the pictures only needed an in tank fuel pump... When I get it, everything I asked about working doesn't... And to top it off, he conveniently forgot to mention that ALL of the rear view mirrors were either missing or broken, and that the gauge cluster was from a different car (a non-turbo) so i can't even guarantee the car has the miles he and the gauge tell me it has. He assured me the HVAC system blew... I specifically asked this question. When I get the car the fan doesn't even come on, and I have NO CLUE where to even begin tracking down these problems. I hooked up the in-tank fuel pump (one black wire?) as he said he'd already replaced the pump in the tank and everything just needed to be hooked up... Put everything together and nadda. It started for a quick moment when the gas tank was out of the car due to the residual fuel still in the line, but that's it.I just hope the majority of Peugeot owners aren't opportunistic like this guy. I'd been lurking here for a while. Thought I'd finally get my love of all things french sated stateside, only to get abused by this clown I'm a little defeated right now... I'd like to get it running, but I haven't a clue where to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 That's too bad "Avantegarde"... Not sure where to start. I won't comment on the past as there's nothing that can be done now. What I would suggest going forward is to decide if you want to spend the time and effort on trying to fix this car - OR - Do you find a nice 505 Turbo and use this car for a parts car. There's a TON of info on this site about buying these cars, and it really comes down to buying the best car you can afford. If the engine is in decent shape and the rest of the drivetrain, body, and interior are decent then you have a viable project with some time and effort. If none of those are good, then you should really look at just using it as a parts car and finding a much nicer example to get your French fix on. These really are wonderful cars, but the reality is $1200 doesn't usually buy you anything but a project car no matter what the brand. You can sometimes luck out with a diamond in the rough, or luck into a fantastic deal - but $1200 is prime project car territory so if the engine runs and is solid you should be fine. We can definitely be more help if you take some detailed pictures of the condition of the car, and if the engine runs - it should be dead simple to get the car running by helping you sort out the fuel issue. First direction is that the in tank pump is merely a lift pump. The main pump is under the driver side rear door along with the filter. If you apply 12V direct to that pump (noting which is + and which is - of course) - that should verify easily if the main pump is OK or not. In tank pump you should pull out and make sure it's new and verify it's OK. Another problem area are the relay's above the fuse box. Pull them all and clean connections and reinstall. Also pull the ash tray out of the center console out and check the 15A fuse behind it just to make sure it's good. These cars aren't rocket science and with some time and effort it won't be hard to sort out. If you decide to take the plunge you'll want to find some factory service manuals (FSM) to help you along the way. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Welcome to the community. No, we are not all like this fellow. The problem with Peugeots is that there really isn't what most Americans would define as "a market" for them. This usually means that you'll have both really nice and really broken cars in need of TLC going for the same prices. Visa versa as well. However, don't let this particular experience bring you down. While we might not be as deep in numbers as the enthusiasts of other brands, we have a network of owners, parts suppliers, and tech that keep us going. hope you find everything you need from one of these great resources. cheers sina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantgarde Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Hi Rabin and Sina Thanks for the messages. I actually came from the Volvo/Saab world and Acura planet. in my experience, $1200 will get you quite a bit of car, lol. I bought my first volvo for $775 (A 1993 940 Turbo sedan with limited slip diff) and it was in great mechanical shape everything worked except the AC... I bought my original 91 Legend (with mods) for $1500, the only thing it needed was the AC fixed and a headgasket. I bought my Acura 3.5RL for 9k when they were 20,000 needed absolutely nothing... I mean I tend to do alright and I always have dealt with forthright and honest people so my first foray into French cars has been a pretty "humbling" experience dealing with dishonesty.Sorry not taking it out on you and I GENUINELY appreciate any help that can be offered. Sorry if I come off a little grating.as far as the lift pump, the High pressure FI pump definitely comes on, I can hear it (quite loudly, is that normal?) come on when I turn the key on to prime the injection system. The pump in the tank, I assume, just isn't working. I was going to just hook up my spare pump from my RL (replaced the RL's pump with a 255lph Walbro) but I'm apprehensive about that because this is a high pressure pump aswell doesn't look like the fittings back here in the trunk can really handle that (speaking of that the gas tank had a leak that was fixed with a putty compound... ANOTHER thing the guy decided he'd not mention. ) LOL! gosh... I have a lot of pent up anger... interesting...Is the lift pump really only controlled by one input wire??? I'm thinking I might have to go in and wire in two leads to make sure pump actually works. I'll admit this is the oldest car I've ever owned lolI pulled the pump out the other day and found that it looked "old" but it could have been replaced with a used part. I'm sure sure though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Ah nice gotta love old bricks. My other car is a 1992 245 b230F with an m47 that i keep putting off doing a +T on. Are you on turbobricks? Also, i bought a semi-running and clean bmw e30 for $800 ... so the deals are out there... You probably could have talked the PO down a bit, but what's in the past is in the past... time to focus on getting it on the road! Tanks can be had. Ukit in LA, california has a bunch of spare tanks sitting round his yard, don't know if shipping would be a killer though for you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 BTW, you should join the peugeot 505 north america group on facebook if you have one... lots of guys on there, and surprisingly - heavily trafficked. We buy/sell/swap parts with each other all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Welcome and sorry you got off on a bad start with your Peugeot. A high percentage of the problems with these cars can be traced to bad grounds. There are ground blocks at the four corners of the car and I would clean each of those up early in the process of diagnosing things. The blower motor is located in the engine compartment on the firewall on the passenger side. Putting power directly to that will tell you if it works. There is a circuit board with a relay that sometimes fails up high on the right rear engine compartment. There is also a rheostat in the dash attached to the fan speed control. Oh and of course check the fuse. What year is your car? All my 505 experience is with Diesels so I'll leave others to advise on the fuel pump issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I have to ask now - was the car bought sight unseen and delivered to you? I recently picked up a '98 V70 T5m for $1800 sight unseen, and when I showed up and checked the car the two body panels I specifically asked to make sure were damage free were damaged. I was PO'd - but had taken a 14 hour bus ride to get the car and it was my ride back. I was upset, but at the same time it was a decent car for $1800. On the drive home however, I realized that it was far too nice to be the parts car I thought it was going to be - so it's getting a whack of new parts and saved. I'll have $3K into the car and it should be a great 2nd car for us. And I do hear you on getting deals, but like I mentioned - they're not the norm. In-tank - I thought it was a two wire plug. Not something I've done in a very long time however, and my 89' has no intank pump so I can't verify. It could be grounded through the tank so only using the hot wire however. As for your bad experience - please remember the car had nothing to do with it. Peugeot's BIGGEST problem is previous owners! Either neglect, ignorance, or just plain stupidity of just one previous owner can do so much damage. I've really had exceptional luck with all my Peugeot, even the "white elephant's" that I bought when the owners just couldn't afford any more repairs turned out to be great cars with PROPER care and maintenance. I think once you evaluate how much it's going to take to make the car right you'll know better where you stand. Maybe get the car running and drive it before sorting anything else out to make sure the car is worth it. I can pretty much assure you though - if the car has a solid suspension, and the power / drivetrain is in decent shape - it will put a smile on your face on your first drive, and especially the first big bump you hit. They really are great driving cars. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantgarde Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Tulaweb, thanks a bunch for that information. I'll check that out!okay, that's a question, Rabin. can I just bypass the lift pump? Get a walbro or Bosh 044 or something with a high degree of Vacuum and just have that drink from the tank... Basically run a hose from the point at which the lift pump pulls and the little strainer at the bottom... Basically eliminating the restriction and allowing the main high pressure pump to pull, from the tank, and deliver the goods to the engine. And yes, It was sight unseen. I was going to fly out and pay for it (a two way ticket was the same price as a one way ticket... if it sucked I could pay 150 bucks for a 2 day hotel stay and fly back and if it didn't suck I could just drive home... I got talked out of that plan and paid a good chunk of money to deliver a non-functioning car )If nothing else, I have a Mallory 4140 Gerotor fuel pump that's good for 15psi and some-odd gallons per hour (racing fuel pump for carburated cars, so I think 140GPH) just sitting around collecting dust... I would just like to eliminate any part that's not essential so this car can run.Not to mention the laughable attempt this guy made at making spark plug wires... Seriously they're 40 bucks a set at the absolute MOST. why try to "fashion" your own and then not even mention that you put these failed attempts on the car when the pictures showed a complete set of Factory Fitting Plug wires *pulls hair out!* LOL sorry I think that's the last of my ranting... I swear! Those plug wires... it's like why?! They're not even that expensive I got a set for 25 bucks. That's less than half the cost of a tank of gas in my RL! Hell I can't even get ONE coil pack for my RL for that price (Try stomaching a 600 dollar tuneup at the dealership LOL! ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantgarde Posted February 25, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Ah nice gotta love old bricks. My other car is a 1992 245 b230F with an m47 that i keep putting off doing a +T on.Are you on turbobricks? Also, i bought a semi-running and clean bmw e30 for $800 ... so the deals are out there... You probably could have talked the PO down a bit, but what's in the past is in the past... time to focus on getting it on the road! Tanks can be had. Ukit in LA, california has a bunch of spare tanks sitting round his yard, don't know if shipping would be a killer though for you... You're right, lol I think if I paid 800-950 for it I wouldn't be upset at all, that's what the car is worth (in the condition it's in even considering it's a Pugwat) he wanted 1500 and I ended up getting him to 1200. And I loved my 940 Turbo... That's what this was actually supposd to replace. I let a family member borrow my Volvo and they tore it up from the bottom to the top. By the time Igot it back the differential had spit its gears out, the window wouldn't stay up and there's was mold all inside the car. I was gutted, LOL! Good to know about the spare tanks, I'll look into it. Just wish I hadn't passed up that "friendly hookup" on a 2005 Saab 9-3 Aero 5spd Turbo for $1500 (nothing needed AC works) for this car... Live and learn, right? *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I would likely replace the intake pump with a hose, and install the carb pump outside the tank as the lift pump to the main pump. You can can also replace the intank with a high pressure pump and then remove the main pump if you wanted to clean up the system a little... Lots of ways to skin a cat as it were... I thought about putting a bosch 021 intank (if it fit), and then redoing the lines and eliminating the main pump to make it simpler. I also would love to fit the 504 under trunk tank and then use a bosch 044 for the main pump too though. Wires - can't really do much better than the Bougicord stock wires. I've got a set of Magnecor wires on anther car, but stock Bougi's are pretty damn nice. I'm sure you can get other ones as well, but yeah - no reason to bodge a set of homemade ones if you don't know what you're doing. (I bought proper crimping pliers for making spark plug wires and they turned out great on another project) As for passing up the $1500 2005 Aero - you're having an exceptionally bad run as of late. Gorgeous car, but not really comparible to a 505 turbo from the mid 80's. I can assure you I wouldn't trade any of my 505 turbos for one though, I've no interest in the later Saab's for a neat project / fun car. If you were looking at a DD however - the Aero was likely a fine choice. Really too bad about the sight unseen purchase... Any car I've bought sight "unseen" has still only ever been on deposit and then picked up in person. I've never bought anything outright and had it delivered sight unseen. I'm pretty paranoid and would have needed documentation out the wazoo before I consented - PLUS having a unbiased 3rd party check it out. When we bought our V70R 8 hrs away I contacted a guy in the local car club in the city I was buying the car in to check it out for me. Worked great - but when you drive 8 hours to check out a car they have you by the short and curlies and they did not budge on price. Ah well - car has been awesome and worth every penny of the price paid. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 I was going to fly out and pay for it (a two way ticket was the same price as a one way ticket... if it sucked I could pay 150 bucks for a 2 day hotel stay and fly back and if it didn't suck I could just drive home... I got talked out of that plan and paid a good chunk of money to deliver a non-functioning car ) We've had a couple of us document our trips to pick up cars and bring them back. Last summer I drove into a flooded road and hydrolocked the engine on my 505 TD. One of the members here offered to sell me his car, same year same engine, with a ratty body but a good engine for $500. He was in Raleigh NC and I'm in NJ. I thought about flying down but I decided that I could bring a lot more tools and stuff if I took the bus so that's what I did. You can see the trip documented here: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2370-road-trip-to-bring-joes-car-back-to-nj/ I think all of us on here feel like we know each other, even if we've never met in person, so I think we would all feel good about trusting each other, unlike buying from a stranger. It certainly never crossed my mind that I would get anything less than was promised, and I didn't. Of course a $500 car in drivable condition doesn't give much room for expecting too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 I'd have to agree with Dave - buying a car off a forum or mailing list like yahoogroups, and from someone's that's part of the community is quite good peace of mind. Buying sight unseen off of some random person off CL or Kijiji inherently has more risk for sure. Really too bad you got burned, but hopefully it's just a minor set back. The reality is that you only really over paid by $4-500 by your own words, and that really isn't that much. I'm sure the principal of the matter is much more of an issue than the actual money - It just really SUCKS to get ripped off. That said - I bought some headlights off a member of this forum that dropped out of sight and I never saw the $100 I sent him. Tough lessons, but at least you learn from them. I refuse to let that experience prevent me from not trusting anyone else - but I do take a few more precautions when making deals now that help ensure the deal is legit. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted February 26, 2013 Report Share Posted February 26, 2013 AG -- bienvenue sur le forum! like the others, i'm sorry to hear that your initial peugeot experience was an unpleasant one. 505s can run without the in-tank fuel pump, but it can over-stress the primary pump (the one under the car) & cause it to fail over the long haul. as dave pointed out, though, the most likely culprit is an electrical problem so that is where i'd start if i were you. the main ground points are, as dave wrote, in the four corners of the car. the rear ones are in the lower side areas of the trunk (adjacent to the rear side marker lights) and the front ones are behind the headlights. in both cases, they are bolted to the body. disconnect the leads going to them, un-bolt them and clean them thoroughly to remove all of the corrosion and crap on them. then clean the leads that connect to them. that's probably the first thing any new 505 owner should do anyway. the in-tank (primer) fuel pump uses two wires, a red one and a black one (hot and ground). the hot wire connects to the wiring harness at wire 76A (all wires in the 505 wiring harness are numbered) and the ground connects to M76B (on the sedan -- the wagon uses M76A for the ground). the main fuel pump connects to wire 76, and 76 & 76A connect to each other and run to the 15A fuse behind the ashtray. i managed to get a NOS primer fuel pump assembly a while back, here's what it looks like for reference: where are you located? and what year is your car? andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 27, 2013 Report Share Posted February 27, 2013 Some of the CL searches still return some of the advert info: 1985 Peugeot 505 Gas Turbo , 5 speed , Rebuilt engine , new brakes , needs fuel pump to get running, 80000 miles, paint is faded,good... That's all I get... So if the engine was rebuilt with lots of new parts, and new brakes then I think you still did OK. I think I saw the original advert - so hopefully it was just poorly executed install and is still a diamond in the rough that just needs sorting. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avantgarde Posted February 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2013 I can only hope!Like I said, I was sold a lot of hoop dreams, lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted March 1, 2013 Report Share Posted March 1, 2013 The main pump you can replace with a Volvo 240, it's the exact replacement, and the black wire is power not ground, the white wire is ground http://www.autohausaz.com/search/product.aspx?sid=rkxzjx45v2sqd0a0qpmugi45&makeid=27@Volvo&modelid=769~20~914~34~~5~7@240%20%20&year=1991&cid=12@Air%20and%20Fuel%20Delivery&gid=6256@Electric%20Fuel%20Pump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted April 11, 2013 Report Share Posted April 11, 2013 Sorry you had a bad experience. that guy is crazy. I had him repair a 505 of mine and he totally fscked up the electrical system Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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