tulaweb Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 So what do people use in a 5sp transmission. The additives in 10w-40 oil 25 or 30 years ago were different than today. My gut says that Diesel Oil would be a more similar formula but as far as I know, that doesn't come in 10w-40. Is there any problem using 15W-40 Diesel Oil? Would something like Royal Purple 10W-40 be a better choice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 Stay away from synthetics. It is too viscous. The shearing that's so bad for engines actually is what the BA/10-5 requires. Just use a good mineral based 10w40. That is the best option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I've used Redline 75W90NS in my transmissions before - one in a 505 ice/dirt racer that we just hammered on for events. Best shifting 505 I've every had - but that was a BA7/5. BA10/5's I found can be "baulkier" - but I've not run my 505 Turbo on Redline yet - it got some Shell 15W40 to see if that would make it any better. August said he tried the Redline 75W90NS on my recommendation but he said it was way worse. I hope to go over a spare BA10/5 when I do the motor swap and then try Redline again. Redline oil link - made for transmissions Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm using Red Line MTL in mine, shifts great, smooth as silk! We used MTL in our 505 race car 87-90 and after 21,000 racing miles never touched the gearbox. It went on to live for a total of 175,000 street miles. Not sure what August ran in my car, when we drained it whatever it was was red and thin. Not ATF thin, more like a synthetic of some kind. I use MTL in my Miata race car as well and it too shift like a dream. Highly reccomended! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 My experience with MTL was second hand. Basically I was told if the tranny is new then MTL should work great, if it's used and has some miles on it - the NS (No Slip) was the oil to use. That is my only "experience" with it aside from the stuff online. I think that can be explained by the new vs old as well though. (Basically more leaks with MTL.) Again rally related - but our 5-sp in the Subaru was baulking badly and the Subaru rally mechs said it was likely due for an overhaul - but if there was any synchro's left NS might make it usable. We tied the NS and got 5 more rallies out of it before the car was sold. Went from a super crappy 1-2 with 2nd almost impossible to get, to it shifting perfectly. When I tried NS on the BA7/5 - it was crazy how slick it was. The only 505 I've ever had that would "snick" down into first at speed easily. Peugeot-L has a few of guys complaining of motor oil not having enough protection especially when towing - I know Bob Bruce is another big fan of synthetic gear oil and LSD additive in his Transmissions and never had an issue since. BTW: I also put the NS in the diff of the ice race 505 (85' XN6 STI sedan) and it locked up the diff so much the inside rear tire would scratch the pavement on tight turns in the dry, and it was pretty much locked on the loose stuff. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 11, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Stay away from synthetics. It is too viscous. The shearing that's so bad for engines actually is what the BA/10-5 requires. Just use a good mineral based 10w40. That is the best option. I've used Redline 75W90NS in my transmissions before - one in a 505 ice/dirt racer that we just hammered on for events. Best shifting 505 I've every had - but that was a BA7/5. BA10/5's I found can be "baulkier" - but I've not run my 505 Turbo on Redline yet - it got some Shell 15W40 to see if that would make it any better. August said he tried the Redline 75W90NS on my recommendation but he said it was way worse. I hope to go over a spare BA10/5 when I do the motor swap and then try Redline again. Rabin I'm using Red Line MTL in mine, shifts great, smooth as silk! Hmmm the red line products are all synthetics are they not? So I've got two recommendations for synthetics and one to stay away from synthetics. I'm perfectly OK with trying various options to see what feels best, but I certainly don't want to do anything with the slightest chance of hurting the transmission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Hmmm the red line products are all synthetics are they not? So I've got two recommendations for synthetics and one to stay away from synthetics. I'm perfectly OK with trying various options to see what feels best, but I certainly don't want to do anything with the slightest chance of hurting the transmission. Not quite that simple though - the specific synthetics that are suggested are formulated for transmissions and their synchros. The warning against synthetic is if you install regular synthetic gear oil or engine oil as they don't have the needed additives the synchros need and they won't work as they should. So this is the only option that could possibly hurt the transmission. Synthetic is pricey stuff, but I consider it cheap insurance as oil is the blood of any assembly. Biggest thing is to keep whatever oil you use topped up to the right level, and in good condition. If your tranny is "leaky" then just stick with conventional oil and make sure to top it up frequently. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 BTW: I also put the NS in the diff of the ice race 505 (85' XN6 STI sedan) and it locked up the diff so much the inside rear tire would scratch the pavement on tight turns in the dry, and it was pretty much locked on the loose stuff. Rabin So given that I'm not going to be ice racing, what would be the recommendation for the differential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 The non NS version of the same Redline oil would work fine if you want to stick with Redline. AMSOIL, Royal Purple, Lucas etc etc all make good synthetic gear oil that will be plenty protection. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I wrote to Red Line, and asked for their recommendation. I Received the following: Thank you for contacting Red Line Oil, in your Peugeot diesel turbo engine the 15W40 http://www.redlineoi...x?pid=7&pcid=21 would be recommended, the MT-90 http://www.redlineoi...x?pid=46&pcid=7 in the transmission and 75W90 http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=133&pcid=4 in the differential.Our Peugeot data hasn't been populated, though we are working on some of those speciality applications, I unassigned the 75W90NS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks for posting that - I had never used the MT-90 but it does look like a great choice. Both it and the NS are listed for gearboxes, it just looks like the NS is rated for more heavy duty use. If it helps - I raced my 505 STI in -40C and the viscosity even at that temp was great - tranny shifted well even in that extreme cold on first start up, so I have no reservations about it not being perfect for your application as well. Not sure what he meant about unassigning the NS... I actually never asked Redline directly, as I mentioned earlier - I was referred to the product by the Subaru Canada factory rally mechanics. After I witnessed how good it "fixed" the baulky shifts, and well it held up - I was sold on it for all my cars. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 regarding the differential lubricant -- the original specs for our cars call for sae 80w/90 for non-LSD, sae 90 for LSD. since i have an LSD, i was planning on running this when i change my differential oil in the coming weeks. thoughts? andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Motul is very high end as well - so you can't really go wrong. The difference with going to a straight 90W vs one of the 75W90 blends is that the blends give a much wider operating temp range. The 75W portion will flow quicker - especially in colder temps. Given your very mild climate, and the fact that synthetic just flows nicer than conventional oil - Straight 90W should be perfectly fine. It'd be considered more "heavy duty" as well - not quite necessary with the XN6 power output - but certainly won't hurt anything. I'm definitely pretty much performance driven - so for me increasing the lock up of the LSD makes sense, but for just maintenance, longevity, and protection you're open to a lot of brands. The key to using any oil is regular changes. You can extend a synthetic oil change - but don't let it go for years. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Thanks for posting that - I had never used the MT-90 but it does look like a great choice. Both it and the NS are listed for gearboxes, it just looks like the NS is rated for more heavy duty use. If it helps - I raced my 505 STI in -40C and the viscosity even at that temp was great - tranny shifted well even in that extreme cold on first start up, so I have no reservations about it not being perfect for your application as well. Not sure what he meant about unassigning the NS... I actually never asked Redline directly, as I mentioned earlier - I was referred to the product by the Subaru Canada factory rally mechanics. After I witnessed how good it "fixed" the baulky shifts, and well it held up - I was sold on it for all my cars. Rabin In my inquiry I pointed out that when I entered my car in their application guide, it only showed 75W90NS but didn't say for what. He was referring to removing that from the database, for their application guide for that car. I'm not sure what the syncos are made of on the BA10 but the 75W90NS is supposed to have a corrosive effect on brass while the MT-90 does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 Redline says "other GL-5" oils - not their own. To quote from the NS page: Improved copper corrosion protection to prolong synchro life Appropriate coefficient of friction for most manual transmission synchronizers (other's synthetic gear oils are often too slippery for proper synchro engagement) Red Line offers lubricants to pinpoint nearly every transmission application MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears Excellent gear and synchro protection, balanced slipperiness for easier shifting in cold climates Excellent for high- and low-mile transmissions Compatible with petroleums and other synthetics You're still good. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 The data sheet for MT-90 75W90 GL-4 says Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage The data sheet for 75W90 NS GL-5 says Improved copper corrosion protection to prolong synchro life So I don't think the NS will promptly rot the syncros, but I think I'll use the MT90 next time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 25, 2012 Report Share Posted July 25, 2012 I would say there will be no added wear on the synchros at all... Brass is a copper zinc alloy - so it's the same thing essentially. What still sells me on the 75W90NS is that they state "MTL, MT-85 & MT-90 are not for use in differentials with hypoid gears", while the 75W90NS contains extreme pressure additives that does allow them to be used in the diff. That tells me the 75W90NS has much better shear strength and it should protect the gears faces better. I can't say that MT-90 isn't a great choice (it is), but I will defend 75W90NS as an inferior choice. Both are great and we likely couldn't tell the difference in a side by side comparison. My car being the gas turbo means I want the extra protection that the NS offers, but as I start implementing the mods I will moving the diff to Redline's shock proof line, and possibly the transmission depending on what power goals are attained. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2012 Since I have never seen the insides of a Peugeot transmission, can anyone tell me if the synchros in my BA10 are made of brass? Is the BA7 the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Before this time I had never changed the transmission oil myself on this car. I think it was last done by a Peugeot dealer. On other cars I have generally been in the habit of filling it till it reaches the level of the filler. This time, when I opened the filler, oil was up to the filler, or maybe a bit more, so the last person did as I would have thought and filled it till it overflowed. The specs say it should take 1.8L but that doesn't fill it to the filler opening. It seems to take about 2.5 quarts to get to that point. Should I just put 1.8L in it or should I fill it to overflowing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted July 27, 2012 Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 Sorry - it's been too long since looking inside a BA10/5 to say for sure. I'm fairly sure they're brass - but not 100% certain. As for filling - I tend to jack them up on the passenger side and fill to over flowing so that it's a bit higher (due to the angle) once the car is level. It's a common trick lots of guys use with manual transmission cars to increase the volume a bit. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted July 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2012 As for filling - I tend to jack them up on the passenger side and fill to over flowing so that it's a bit higher (due to the angle) once the car is level. It's a common trick lots of guys use with manual transmission cars to increase the volume a bit. Rabin That's what I did, and clearly what whoever last changed it did. It's what I've always done in the past with other cars. It's just that I noticed that I used significantly more that the amount of oil specified even before it was tipped, so I just wanted to be sure I wasn't hurting anything by "over filling" it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted August 7, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 regarding the differential lubricant -- the original specs for our cars call for sae 80w/90 for non-LSD, sae 90 for LSD Was there more than one differential available in the 505s? If so, how does one identify which is which? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 7, 2012 Report Share Posted August 7, 2012 The only non-LSD diff that North American cars got - that I know of was - the 88' ABS cars. The rest all had LSD's. 89' turbo's and V6's got the Torsen diffs. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 87 turbo ABS cars too. I got one. Don't know about the V6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 I always forget that ABS cars started in 87' - so yes - basically any ABS car that isn't an 89' will have an open diff if it is stock. A few ABS cars have had the regular LSD fitted however and the ABS works fine. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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