Foglight connection

[Guest EUROTRASH]

So... today I made some progress with the foglights, and then run into some trouble.

On the driver's side, no problem. I cut the old plug and connected everything with spades. Pushed on the foglight button, lights ON.

On the passenger side, I have no such plug. In fact I don't have a SINGLE plug to cut and try to connect.

One cable splits in two and plugs into the horn, one for the side marker lights and another one for the front marker lights.

THAT'S IT.

Photo A shows what I did on the driver's side.

Photo B... passenger's side.

What am I missing?

Photo A also shows two cables (next to the new spades) that join into a single connection, it appears to be for the horn as the horn on the driver's side only has one connection.

[andrethx]

the factory electrical manual i have is for the 80-85 models (came as part of a set with some other manuals that i have). if the fogs on your 87 are wired the same way as the 85 model, there is a junction upstream on the positive lead, where it splits out to the left and right foglights. so if you trace the driver's side positive lead upstream, you should find the junction somewhere, and thus, the positive lead for the passengers' side...

other than that, i got nothin'.

andré

[Guest EUROTRASH]

the factory electrical manual i have is for the 80-85 models (came as part of a set with some other manuals that i have). if the fogs on your 87 are wired the same way as the 85 model, there is a junction upstream on the positive lead, where it splits out to the left and right foglights. so if you trace the driver's side positive lead upstream, you should find the junction somewhere, and thus, the positive lead for the passengers' side...

other than that, i got nothin'.

andré

Might as well ask the same question I asked on the Facebook group.

Passenger side foglight: Where does the power cable come from? On your car I mean.

Does it come down on top of the foglight? Or does it come from the driver's side?

[Bean]

I'd remove the headlight and check in there...

On my 89' the driving light wires used the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so I removed them (euros so they're not used) and used them for wiring my replacement Hella's with. I made custom harnesses for each light and soldered the factory connectors into each light harness so the lights plug right into the factory wiring harness.

Worked great. I found some pics I did when I replaced the front bumper. Re-loomed all the wiring, and ensured the connectors were all clean and dielectic greased. The tan plug is for the driving light.

BTW: All connections were soldered and heat shrunk.

Rabin

[Guest EUROTRASH]

I'd remove the headlight and check in there...

On my 89' the driving light wires used the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so I removed them (euros so they're not used) and used them for wiring my replacement Hella's with. I made custom harnesses for each light and soldered the factory connectors on the lights so they plug right into the factory wiring harness.

Worked great. I found some pics I did when I replaced the front bumper. Re-loomed all the wiring, and ensured the connectors were all clean and dielectic greased. The tan plug is for the driving light.

BTW: All connections were soldered and heat shrunk.

Rabin

Be thankful you don't live near me Rabin.

Fist, I don't know what you just said.

Second, I'm not sure what voltage my Magneti Marelli foglights run with, and I'm sure I'm not qualified to mess with any of the other power supplies.

I plugged the one foglight, pushed the green foglight button on my center console... and the foglight turned on.

The foglight did get really hot... really quick, but maybe that's normal.

I just need to know where the factory foglight cable comes from on the passenger's side. Unless you wanna come to my house and show me how to rewire the whole damn thing.

I removed the battery to follow the driver's side cables, it was a mess.

I'll try removing the passenger's headlight like you said.

[Bean]

If you check out my pics - the driving light wires were bundled into the headlight and signal light harnesses, so if you remove the headlight you can see if they're in there somewhere and pull them out.

If not - you may need to start exposing the wiring harness to see if the wires were broken or pulled out. 2nd option if you simply can't find the end: Trace the driver side ones back all the way and see if you can see the passenger split would be.

Also - I'm guessing you're not experienced in soldering connections, but I'd HIGHLY recommend you learn. Exterior wiring especially, but even the inside connections are good to solder too. (Solder and heat shrink tubing)

All lights are 12V on these cars - and yes - they get real hot real quick. They also draw a decent load, so crap connections that have high resistance will generate a lot of heat. (Which is why I mentioned the soldering). Crimp connectors are also prone to moisture and corrosion over time - which is why Peugeot electric connectors suck - they're not sealed.

Rabin

[Guest EUROTRASH]

If you check out my pics - the driving light wires were bundled into the headlight and signal light harnesses, so if you remove the headlight you can see if they're in there somewhere and pull them out.

If not - you may need to start exposing the wiring harness to see if the wires were broken or pulled out. 2nd option if you simply can't find the end: Trace the driver side ones back all the way and see if you can see the passenger split would be.

Also - I'm guessing you're not experienced in soldering connections, but I'd HIGHLY recommend you learn. Exterior wiring especially, but even the inside connections are good to solder too. (Solder and heat shrink tubing)

All lights are 12V on these cars - and yes - they get real hot real quick. They also draw a decent load, so crap connections that have high resistance will generate a lot of heat. (Which is why I mentioned the soldering). Crimp connectors are also prone to moisture and corrosion over time - which is why Peugeot electric connectors suck - they're not sealed.

Rabin

You did a terrific job, I see what you mean about using the driving light's outlet for the foglights. But that means they run while the headlights are on, or marker lights, right? (one of them)

I really don't want that, and I want to use the designated foglight's button which works just fine (with the one foglight I was able to connect).

I took some photos, it's pretty horrible. Some relays and connectors are unplugged and rusted, some wires were cut and left out to rust as well. Thing is I don't even know what they're for, maybe someone can tell me.

I traced the foglight wires on the driver's side to where all the wires split to either side, then I followed the passenger's side bundle all the way to the end. Nothing, there is an outlet for everything except the foglight. I'm starting to think that the one foglight wires on the driver's side served as an outlet for both the driver's and passenger's side foglights. Is this possible? Can one outlet handle the power for both foglights?

[Bean]

Nope - I just cut those connectors you pictured off - then used them for wiring in the new Hella 450's I got. Those connectors are for the small bulbs that go in the USDM headlight housings, and they light up the surround around the 5x7 headlight. I would call them aux or cosmetic lights but not driving lights.

My car was missing one of female connectors for the passenger driving light, so I used the other connecotore as a replacement since they're not used in my euro lights. I then used the bulb sides of the same connectors to make harnesses for each Hella so they plug into the car harness using the matching OEM connectors.

If you can't find the passenger side wires, you could install a relay and use the driver side positive wire as the signal wire. You can then use the new relay as the switch to run both fog lights off that one working set of wires. There may even be a fog light relay already, in which case you'd just need to locate it and run new wires to the passenger fog light.

Rabin

[Guest EUROTRASH]

Nope - I just cut those connectors you pictured off - then used them for wiring in the new Hella 450's I got. Those connectors are for the small bulbs that go in the USDM headlight housings, and they light up the surround around the 5x7 headlight. I would call them aux or cosmetic lights but not driving lights.

My car was missing one of female connectors for the passenger driving light, so I used the other connecotore as a replacement since they're not used in my euro lights. I then used the bulb sides of the same connectors to make harnesses for each Hella so they plug into the car harness using the matching OEM connectors.

If you can't find the passenger side wires, you could install a relay and use the driver side positive wire as the signal wire. You can then use the new relay as the switch to run both fog lights off that one working set of wires. There may even be a fog light relay already, in which case you'd just need to locate it and run new wires to the passenger fog light.

Rabin

So, what activates your Hella 450?

I think you have a point with the foglight relay, if there is one and I can find it, problem solved.

[Bean]

I used the connectors I mentioned above so that I could wire everything properly as it was missing one car side plug, and I needed both connectors for the Hella's. It is now better than OEM.

Each hella is wired up to plug into the factory harness - so the factory switch turns the lights off just as Peugeot intended.

Factory harness on the car was cleaned, routed nicely, and reloomed as well.

Rabin

[Guest EUROTRASH]

I used the connectors I mentioned above so that I could wire everything properly as it was missing one car side plug, and I needed both connectors for the Hella's. It is now better than OEM.

Each hella is wired up to plug into the factory harness - so the factory switch turns the lights off just as Peugeot intended.

Factory harness on the car was cleaned, routed nicely, and reloomed as well.

Rabin

Right, but which switch do you use? The foglight switch? Low beams? Makers only?

That's what I can't figure out.

[Bean]

Really? You need me to clarify "...so the factory switch turns the lights off just as Peugeot intended"?

Alright - the fog light switch on the center dash console operates the fog lights.

Rabin

[andrethx]

okay -- as long as we're on the subject of fog light switches -- my car has a foglight switch on the center dash console. as best i can tell, my car (being a GL) never had foglights. wft? so i said to myself, "okay, let's see what this button does." i depressed it and it clicked into the down position...nothing happened. i went to press it again, and it's stuck in the down position. i guess the next step is to pop it out & see what it's connected to, but to be honest, it's kinda far down the list of things i need to do on my car. still, it bugs. thoughts?

andré

[Guest EUROTRASH]

Really? You need me to clarify "...so the factory switch turns the lights off just as Peugeot intended"?

Alright - the fog light switch on the center dash console operates the fog lights.

Rabin

Well you talked about rewiring and you talked about "a switch", but never said which switch.

"Those connectors are for the small bulbs that go in the USDM headlight housings, and they light up the surround around the 5x7 headlight. I would call them aux or cosmetic lights but not driving lights."

I had the USDM headlights when I first bought the car, very briefly as I replaced them with Euros. I don't recall the foglight switch controling any of the functions whithin the USDM headlight. (I could be wrong).

You describe your work too technically for me to understand, impressive but confusing.

An easier way to put this:

The factory foglight switch, turns both foglights and small bulbs in the USDM headlight... ON. Is this correct?

If this is the case, I can ignore the foglight relay and wires altogether, and use the 'small bulbs' wiring for the foglights.

If this is NOT correct, your use of the factory foglight switch was made possible only because of custom rewiring.

okay -- as long as we're on the subject of fog light switches -- my car has a foglight switch on the center dash console. as best i can tell, my car (being a GL) never had foglights. wft? so i said to myself, "okay, let's see what this button does." i depressed it and it clicked into the down position...nothing happened. i went to press it again, and it's stuck in the down position. i guess the next step is to pop it out & see what it's connected to, but to be honest, it's kinda far down the list of things i need to do on my car. still, it bugs. thoughts?

andré

André

I can tell you right now that your foglight switch is not functional because the button on your console does not have an integrated light, green light that is. It's just a flat button, you could however source a functional button from a 505 that came with foglights? I guess, then you'll have more wiring work to do.

But that's why your button locks in, no actual function.

[Bean]

Well you talked about rewiring and you talked about "a switch", but never said which switch.

I wrote that the factory switch operated the lights as Peugeot intended. I thought that was very clear that everything was factory including the switch. No worries - I just thought I was being very clear.

"Those connectors are for the small bulbs that go in the USDM headlight housings, and they light up the surround around the 5x7 headlight. I would call them aux or cosmetic lights but not driving lights."

I had the USDM headlights when I first bought the car, very briefly as I replaced them with Euros. I don't recall the foglight switch controling any of the functions within the USDM headlight. (I could be wrong).

You describe your work too technically for me to understand, impressive but confusing.

An easier way to put this:

The factory foglight switch, turns both foglights and small bulbs in the USDM headlight... ON. Is this correct?

Not Correct. The surrounds on the US style lights light up with the headlights so that they kinda look like euro lights. I've NEVER said they were controlled by the foglight switch. They're just cosmetic lights - BUT - they happen to use the same connectors as the fog lights at the end of the wires.

If this is the case, I can ignore the foglight relay and wires altogether, and use the 'small bulbs' wiring for the foglights.

Do not do that. That circuit is designed for 5W lights, not 55+W lights!

If this is NOT correct, your use of the factory foglight switch was made possible only because of custom rewiring.

NOT CORRECT. All I did was cut and move the connectors from the cosmetic light wires to the fog light wires so that I could plug the Hella lights in. The wiring is all stock, I just fixed it. I wanted the Hella lights to plug in like OEM - that's all.

I was trying to explain what I did as clear as possible, but it's hard sometimes to do so with text. Please read it carefully though as you made assumptions that simply weren't written that seems to have caused some confusion.

Find the fog light relay and rewire from that. If you can't find the relay - put one in using the existing wires as the signal wires that will switch the relay.

Rabin

[andrethx]

I can tell you right now that your foglight switch is not functional because the button on your console does not have an integrated light, green light that is. It's just a flat button, you could however source a functional button from a 505 that came with foglights? I guess, then you'll have more wiring work to do.

But that's why your button locks in, no actual function.

wow. really?

i mean, i believe what you're telling me -- that button is really a blank to cover a button hole, since it doesn't have the integrated light. but why? peugeot obviously doesn't have any problem putting blank button covers over unused button holes -- look at the one next to the button in question -- so why bother silkscreening a foglight icon onto the blank? who thinks that way?

i definitely plan to put fogs on my car...currently deciding b/w hella 450s and cibie 35s...hellas are good lights, had them in the past and liked them...cibies are french but double the price...so i'm reading this thread with interest...

andré

[Guest EUROTRASH]

so why bother silkscreening a foglight icon onto the blank? who thinks that way?

I have no idea.

I'm guessing once you remove the control panel you will find nothing behind this "fake" foglight button. You need the electrical components that make this button functional so that is where I would start.

If you don't have all the components behind the control panel, then you need both the functional button... and everything else.

Rabin

Your first response:

"On my 89' the driving light wires used the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so I removed them (euros so they're not used) and used them for wiring my replacement Hella's with."

By "driving lights" you mean foglights since that is what we're talking about.

On your 89, the factory foglight wires use the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so you removed them and put them on your Hellas… so you could connect them directly to the factory foglight wires.

"factory switch" can mean anything if you exclude the word 'foglights'.

Now… if the connectors on the little bulbs are not the same as your factory foglight connectors, I have no idea why you would want them on your Hellas so I have to assume that now I have this right.

Thank you very much.

[N9TE]

The tough thing is finding lights with a rear post. If you get the top/bottom post, they'll hang too low and will get roached by a curb/parking spot. I'd take either Hellas or Cibiés rear post. I've kept my eyes open for them for over 4 years and have found nothing.

i definitely plan to put fogs on my car...currently deciding b/w hella 450s and cibie 35s...hellas are good lights, had them in the past and liked them...cibies are french but double the price...so i'm reading this thread with interest...

andré

[Bean]

I have no idea.

I'm guessing once you remove the control panel you will find nothing behind this "fake" foglight button. You need the electrical components that make this button functional so that is where I would start.

If you don't have all the components behind the control panel, then you need both the functional button... and everything else.

The older style fog light switches just had that emblem that lights up green, the newer lights light up a much larger square with the same symbol shown. So my guess is that the switch Andre has is a proper switch, but since it doesn't toggle and is stuck down I think it's broken. Mine is doing the same thing and the lights aren't working anymore so I need to replace the foglight switch.

Since Andre's car has the power window harnesses - hopefully the wiring for the foglights is there too.

Rabin

Your first response:

"On my 89' the driving light wires used the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so I removed them (euros so they're not used) and used them for wiring my replacement Hella's with."

By "driving lights" you mean foglights since that is what we're talking about.

Correct. Sorry, I still think of fog lights as amber/yellow, driving as white light. That isn't proper however as the terms fog and driving lights are interchangeable and they can be white or amber.

On your 89, the factory foglight wires use the same connectors as the little bulbs in the USDM headlights, so you removed them and put them on your Hellas… so you could connect them directly to the factory foglight wires.

Correct.

"factory switch" can mean anything if you exclude the word 'foglights'.

Sorry - I was too wordy in my explanation and it confused things. I could've been way more clear so that it was easier to understand.

Thank you very much.

No problem Fernando - I just hope you can get it sorted out after all the muddled info I provided!

Koll - My Hella lights took about 5 hours to fit as them into the factory holes. They're a tad too big, and the stick out a little, but they turned out pretty darn good. I think the only way to make any of the new lights work is to fabricate a new mounting bracket - which is what took so long to get the placement just right.

Rabin

[Guest EUROTRASH]

Thanks Rabin, for trying... it's not your fault that my knowledge is so limited. You're always willing to help anyone and that is what counts.

I tried something different. I connected both foglights to a single outlet, the driver's side. They work fine, maybe they were like this to begin with.

Funny thing is, if I disconnect the horn, both foglights turn off. If I reconnect the horns they work fine, but they turn off while I honk the horn.

Somehow the horn acts as a ground, but the foglights shouldn't turn off while I honk the horn.

I have a theory.

The horns were intended to act as a ground, remember... the factory connector for the foglights was made of a single wire, (two wires that literally joined into one) as such there would be no ground. They split in two only because I did that.

Both horns are badly rusted, especially the connections, that's why they're drawing so much current and causing grounding problems. If I replace the horns with new ones, that may solve the problem.

[Bean]

Do your fog lights have one wire or two?

If they only have one then they use the mount for ground, so you need to ensure the mount is grounded well. Sounds like the horns must be mounted to the same spot, which may be why it's working crazy. If you run a separate ground wire to the light mounts it should be fine.

Rabin

[andrethx]

If I replace the horns car with a new one, that may solve the problem.

sorry, couldn't resist.

[Guest EUROTRASH]

sorry, couldn't resist.

It did cross my mind

Do your fog lights have one wire or two?

If they only have one then they use the mount for ground, so you need to ensure the mount is grounded well. Sounds like the horns must be mounted to the same spot, which may be why it's working crazy. If you run a separate ground wire to the light mounts it should be fine.

Rabin

One wire (two wires that join into one)

Photo "A" shows the factory connector, its front and its back. (again it's one connector, I'm just showing you both sides)

Photo "B" shows what I did, cut the factory connector and turned each wire into an individual terminal. (so I could connect my Magneti Marelli foglights)

It also shows the horn, badly rusted. Those other two wires (brown) also join into one connector, they're for the horn.

So originally I had one connector for the foglights, and one connector for the horn which acted as ground.

That's all for the driver's side.

The passenger's side horn is different, two separate wires. (original factory design)

Photo "C": passenger's side horn.

I haven't made any modification to either horn's wiring. I did purchase a new horn for the passenger's side, and will purchase an additional horn for the driver's side.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQPeugeotQQ505QQStandardQQHornQQ19801991QQSIHN18.html

I can see it comes with an "optional" ground cable? I'm thinking this is for the driver's side since it only has one connection (two terminals joined into one connector).

Both connectors on the passenger's side horn are male, the new horn clearly states "2 male terminals".

[Vjeko]

You did a terrific job, I see what you mean about using the driving light's outlet for the foglights. But that means they run while the headlights are on, or marker lights, right? (one of them)

I really don't want that, and I want to use the designated foglight's button which works just fine (with the one foglight I was able to connect).

I took some photos, it's pretty horrible. Some relays and connectors are unplugged and rusted, some wires were cut and left out to rust as well. Thing is I don't even know what they're for, maybe someone can tell me.

I traced the foglight wires on the driver's side to where all the wires split to either side, then I followed the passenger's side bundle all the way to the end. Nothing, there is an outlet for everything except the foglight. I'm starting to think that the one foglight wires on the driver's side served as an outlet for both the driver's and passenger's side foglights. Is this possible? Can one outlet handle the power for both foglights?

On the sixth picture the connector with query symbol is for turbo manometer sensor which turns turbo gauge on gauge cluster.