Ikenna Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Hi all, My 505 V6 5spd manual tranns I bought from France last year October has arrived the Country, Nigeria. Though the car hasnt reached my location( about 700kms away from the car), the Federal Capital Territory, Abuja, because the car dealer who was to drive it to my location was scared to do so. He said the car was seriously emitting black smokes from the exhaust pipe. He suspects the airflow meter, which I doubt. Please could it be the oxygen sensor, catalytic converter, detonation sensor, ECU, wiring harness/connectors,or what? Please, if know what it could be, advic me on where to tell them to look for the problem,cos this is delaying me from setting my eyes on my long awaited dreams, 505 V6 5spd manual trans. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Black smoke is excessive fuel... I'd rule out oxygen sensor, catalytic converter, and detonation sensor right away, but driven with excessive black smoke it can ruin the catalytic converter. I'd suspect injectors, AF meter, and electrical issues. Seems odd though as I've never heard of a V6 having these symptoms. Any chance you can pick the car up, or have it trailered to you instead? I'd hate to authorize unknown mechanics who may know nothing about the car to start trying to fix it. It would be especially difficult to relay info from the forums to a third party as well. Good luck - and keep us posted. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Black smoke is excessive fuel... I'd rule out oxygen sensor, catalytic converter, and detonation sensor right away, but driven with excessive black smoke it can ruin the catalytic converter. I'd suspect injectors, AF meter, and electrical issues. Seems odd though as I've never heard of a V6 having these symptoms. Any chance you can pick the car up, or have it trailered to you instead? I'd hate to authorize unknown mechanics who may know nothing about the car to start trying to fix it. It would be especially difficult to relay info from the forums to a third party as well. Good luck - and keep us posted. Rabin Honestly, it baffled me too cos I had never read or heard where 505 V6 had such problem. Personally, I wouldnt want anyone to do any fixing for me on that car. But what option do i have. The car is still very far away from me, about more than 600miles far from where I reside. Trailing/towing it from such distance is out of the question. I will try and see if I can convince him to drive the car in that state to me, so that I can really know what exactly is wrong or how black the smoke is and fix it myself. Or I may even ask him to check the if the orange light emtting diode flahes, to determine the faulty code.He is just scared that the car might strand him on the way and worsen the situation. Anyway, whatever happens, I will keep you posted. Thanks. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 The most common is Fuel Pressure Regulator diaphragm valve right at the top of the intake is bad. Or could MAF or injector Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 I certainly wouldn't advise to have them drive it as is - you could easily ruin the motor! Excess fuel washes down the cylinders, and dilutes the oil - at the end of the trip your engine could easily be ruined. Given the choice - I'd talk a mechanic through the fix rather than have them risk such a rare car - especially since all you've gone through to get it. Fuel pressure regulator like Nick suggested would be another one on my list. Have them pull the spark plugs to see if all of them are equally wet with fuel - or if it's just one or two. If all then suspect the FPR, if one or two - replace the injector for those cylinders. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Thanks very much, Nick and Rabin. You guys are right. I will have to ask the dealer for the mechanic/rewire's phone no. whom he has asked to trace and fix the problem, so that I can call him and direct him on what or things to check before he starts these their trial and error. Actually, Rabin, considering what I have gone through to get that car, its better I have the patience and get the car fixed where it is at moment, than having them drive it in that state and regret that decision for the rest of my life, after ruining that engine. I will have to waite till morning to make the call since the time now over here is 11:15pm (13/01/2011). Meanwhile Nick, I dont understand what MAF you said stands for. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Meanwhile Nick, I dont understand what MAF you said stands for. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Meanwhile Nick, I dont understand what MAF you said stands for. Ikenna. Mast Air Flow sensor, Also known as AFM, Air fuel meter on earlier cars but on ZN3J it is techincally a MAF style housing Oh! Now I understand. Hmm! there are a lot of things am yet to learn about that car. Thanks. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted January 13, 2011 Report Share Posted January 13, 2011 Good Luck Keep Us Posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 This morning I spoke with the car dealer and asked him to instruct the rewire to check the condition of the fuel pressure regulator, together with the Mass Air flow sensor. Later in the evening today, i called and he said the rewire had the MAF and the fuel pressure regulator replaced, yet the problem persisted ( still emitting black smoke on the exhaust pipe). Though, he said the engine was high at idling yesterday, but has been tuned well today. I demanded to speak with the rewire or whoever was doing the repair, but he told me he had closed work for today & was already on his way home (5.45pm). Am concerned, because this is kind of problem i can trace and fix myself, but wouldnt know how knowledgeable the guy is with Peugeot. I just wouldnt want him to create more problem for the car & me in trying to fix a mnor problem he dosent even understand. If not the distance, I would have trailed the car here by now, but it must be driven. Anyway, until I speak with the guy tomorrow before he lay his hand again on that vehicle, I will appreciate anyother solution to this on from you guys. Thanks. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bean, I read somewhere that faulty coolant temperature sensor can also cause a car to have black smoke on the exhaust. Do you think they are right? If they are right, is the coolant temperature sensor different from radiator temperature switch on the 505 V6 radiator? Am still going through the workshop manaul of the 505 V6 to findout the location of the coolant temperture sensor on the engine, if it has anway. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Bean, I read somewhere that faulty coolant temperature sensor can also cause a car to have black smoke on the exhaust. Do you think they are right? If they are right, is the coolant temperature sensor different from radiator temperature switch on the 505 V6 radiator? Am still going through the workshop manaul of the 505 V6 to findout the location of the coolant temperture sensor on the engine, if it has anway. Ikenna. Temp sensor could cause running rich yes, but pouring black smoke out the tailpipe is unlikely... Temp sensor will be on the engine (coolant housing I believe) - the radiator is the rad fan switch. You could have them pull the connection to the temp sensor to see if that helps. It should run rich in the default setting as if the engine is cold with it unplugged.) Black smoke that noticeable has to be something like uncontrolled fuel flow, so FPR, or injector related would be my guess. Devil's advocate: You are relying on their word something is wrong - so hopefully they're not crooked and just trying to get money. Do you know them well? Do you have any trusted contacts that can go verify the issue? What I'd suggest next: If they check out, I think it would still be wise to pull the plugs and read their condition. If all are affected by excess fuel, or if it's just one. Since the FPR is ruled out, it could be one injector stuck open and that spark plug will tell you which injector isn't working. Is there any other description other than black smoke? If there is something wrong causing that much fuel - it should also run rough as the spark plug would foul pretty easy and not fire well at all. Can they put a fuel pressure gauge on the rail and tell you the pressure in the fuel rail? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 Temp sensor could cause running rich yes, but pouring black smoke out the tailpipe is unlikely... Temp sensor will be on the engine (coolant housing I believe) - the radiator is the rad fan switch. You could have them pull the connection to the temp sensor to see if that helps. It should run rich in the default setting as if the engine is cold with it unplugged.) Black smoke that noticeable has to be something like uncontrolled fuel flow, so FPR, or injector related would be my guess. Devil's advocate: You are relying on their word something is wrong - so hopefully they're not crooked and just trying to get money. Do you know them well? Do you have any trusted contacts that can go verify the issue? What I'd suggest next: If they check out, I think it would still be wise to pull the plugs and read their condition. If all are affected by excess fuel, or if it's just one. Since the FPR is ruled out, it could be one injector stuck open and that spark plug will tell you which injector isn't working. Is there any other description other than black smoke? If there is something wrong causing that much fuel - it should also run rough as the spark plug would foul pretty easy and not fire well at all. All I was told was that the engine was sounding high at idle and the black smoke thing. Then today, I was told the high of the sound while idling has been fixed (tuned back to normal). Can they put a fuel pressure gauge on the rail and tell you the pressure in the fuel rail? Rabin The first thing that struck me when I heard about the black smoke was clogged injector & foul spark plug(s). But when they didnt say the engine was not idling roughly, misfiring or hesitating, i ruled out the injector and plug. But i guess because i didnt ask. I trust the car dealer who made the arrangement, bought the car for me from France and had it succesfully brought into the country. Whom i dont trust is the auto technician he gave my car to repair. And the dealer dosent know much about the technicalities in repairs. He believes whatever they tell him. But not me & not on my car i laboured, took a lot of risk to acquire. In fact, i will give you the report of what i will find out the technician tomorrow after am through with him on the phone. I blame the distance actually, not the moron that calls himself technician and cant even fixed a minor problem like that. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I just minutes ago that i have Bosch LH2.2-Jetronic Injection system (ZN3J) Troubleshooting book. It stated that only cars with catalytic converter that is fitted Engine temperature sensor. And I do not know if mine have catalytic converter to start with. Anyway, the book stated the following: "When there is excessive fuel consumption: 1. Check the fuel supply voltage of fuel pumps. 2. Check the fuel pressure 3. Check the mixture & idle speed adjustment 4. Check the temperature sensor (NTC) 5. Check the airflow sensor 6. Check the injectors 7. Check the Injection ECU multipin connector 8. Check the valve clearance adjustment & compression 9. Retest vehicle with a new injection ECU." I believe the problem with mine wont go beyond no.6 on that list. I will work with this list, from 1 to 6, which is enough to fix the problem. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 15, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2011 I certainly wouldn't advise to have them drive it as is - you could easily ruin the motor! Excess fuel washes down the cylinders, and dilutes the oil - at the end of the trip your engine could easily be ruined. Given the choice - I'd talk a mechanic through the fix rather than have them risk such a rare car - especially since all you've gone through to get it. Fuel pressure regulator like Nick suggested would be another one on my list. Have them pull the spark plugs to see if all of them are equally wet with fuel - or if it's just one or two. If all then suspect the FPR, if one or two - replace the injector for those cylinders. Rabin I finally spoke with the mechanic on phone this evening. He told me he had replaced the fuel filter, which is not relevant to the issue at hand. I asked him how clean the airfilter was, he said it wasnt dirty. He said he strongly believed the culprit was the Mass airflow sensor. Though he replaced it yesterday, but he realised today that the part number of the original MAF sensor in the car was not the same with the new one he installed. So he had sent it back from where he bought it and asked for the correct part no. originally in the car. I didnt even know that it must be the exact MAF sensor part no. for it to work. He said he was convinced that the problem was the MAF sensor because he removed and checked the 6 spark plugs and all had black soots on them. With that, I ruled out the injectors, since it affected all the spark plugs. All the injectors can be faulty at once. Something else must have caused the Injectors to be supplying excess fuel to the combustion chambers, which has been affecting the spark plugs. I forgot to ask him if actually he had replaced the Fuel pressure regulator which I told he did yesterday. Just wanted to be sure before ruling out the FPR as the likely cause of the problem. But he sounded as someone that knew what he was doing or was very sure MAF sensor must be the culprit. According to him, the auto spare parts seller promised to bring the MAF sensor part number he had requested in two days time ( this coming Monday). And he promised me that he would eradicate the excessive fuel issue with car this coming Monday, 17/01/2011, once the new MAF sensor is fixed. That nothwithstanding, I asked him to keep all the parts he had replaced or would replace on Monday in the boot. At least, after speaking with him, I had a little bit rest of mind. Because, since he is just a mechanic and not a rewire, its better knowing that no one is messing or tampering with the car electricals, cos the rewires in Nigeria are good at by-passing wirings, creating more problems. Whatever happens on the Monday, I will update you guys. Thanks. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 Please, the radiator fan cowl/shroud is missing, so I was told. Will driving the car without the cowl have any effect on the cooling system. It appears the cowl size on the 505 V6 radiator differs from the other 505 models. Finding the V6 size would be very difficult. Is there any other 505 or other cars fan cowl/shroud that can match, if I must reinstall the fan cowl? Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 17, 2011 Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 As long as the car is moving at speed it won't be an issue. If they get stuck in traffic and it's hot they should shut the car off and not idle it for long periods of time. V6 shroud's are very different, but your best bet is to either find one that is a close fit, or remove the fan and install electric cooling fans instead. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2011 As long as the car is moving at speed it won't be an issue. If they get stuck in traffic and it's hot they should shut the car off and not idle it for long periods of time. V6 shroud's are very different, but your best bet is to either find one that is a close fit, or remove the fan and install electric cooling fans instead. Rabin Thanks Rabin. Anyway, I just checked my phone AccuWeather report and is showing that Wednesday Weather in Abuja, where i stay in Nigeria, will be 33 degrees (daytime) and 14 degrees at night. And this is the day the guy is bringing/driving the car from his Location, Lagos, to me,which is about 12hrs drive. Well, I spoke him on the phone this evening and he said he had mounted shroud on the radiator. But the question is "Did it cover the fan well, as the original would be?" I believe the one he put is not the 505 V6 one. I just have to put my finger crossed untill the car arrives. About the black smoke thing, I asked him and he said the exhaust has stopped emitting black smoke. I asked him how and he said as soon as he replaced the airflow meter/Mass air flow sensor, the black smoke stopped. If he was telling the truth, I do not know. He even told me he was test driving the car as we were discussing on the phone. All I did was to tell him to keep the one he replaced back for me in the car boot to really verify if actually it is faulty or not when the car arrives here. For me, the less they touch that car in the name of repairing things, the better for me. I dont want them to compound problem for me when it finally gets here. I just want him to manage and bring the vehicle to me. While discussing with him on the phone, I asked him about the condition of the variable ratio power steering and the A/C, and he said they are in good condition. Though, he said the AC needs to be regassed(flush and refill with Freon), that it is not as cold as I would like it to be. He said he would do that tomorrow. I also asked if it has ABS, and he said no (which I was hoping the answer to be YES), that it is conventional brake instead. But he said something else that I was concerned of. That the rear axle/differential is leaking oil from it seal. But he would replace the seal tomorrow as well, and refill the differential with gear oil. He said he noticed this because the differential was noisy. I felt bad hearing that the differential was noisy, cos refilling it with the oil might not eliminate the noise since it noise had already started. Another thing is that since it dosent have ABS, who knows if it is LSD (Limited Slip Differential) that it has. Will ordinally differential oil be ok with the LSD, even if is just for the 12hrs drive? Unfortunately, he wouldnt know if it is LSD or conventional 505 differential, and he already said he would refill it with the normal gearbox oil. If it is LSD, will it be able to drive it for the hot 12 hrs to my location without damaging the differential? someone told me that LSD has a different oil from the other differential type. Its now 24hrs for me to see that car with my naked eyes!! As soon as the car arrives, I will replace the coolant temperature sensor, even if it appears to be in good condition. I will keep you guys updated. Thanks Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2011 Update on the 505 V6. The black smoke from the exhaust has stopped. The Mass airflow sensor was replaced and it fixed the black smoke issue. Also, the mechanic told me he had put another Fan cowl on the radiator. Unfortunately, he told me the Differential was noisy and that oil was dropping/leaking from the differential seal. He had the seal replaced today and also refilled the differential/rear axle with gear oil, but the noise continued, as he told me. I just couldnt take it any longer, so I instructed him to drive/bring it to me tomorrow in that condition, no matter how noisy it is. As long as there is oil in it, I strongly believe the differential wont break down on the 12 hrs long distance drive (about 750 km), even with the noise. Besides, I have spare differential in condition, from a donor car 505 series 1, which I believe could also be installed in 2nd series 505, especially the V6. Am tired of spending money on that car, yet have not seen it. I can even replace or change the differential myself, which I have done before on the previous 504 GL i used before now. Though, I will still repair the noisy one in the car once I bring it out, cos I believe the cause of the noise is the bearing inside the diff., which can be replaced and fixed back, without condeming the whole differential. One of my cousin had a similar experience with his 505 SR 1st series years back and his mechanic replaced only the bearing inside the axle and the noise stopped. Aside the differential, the mechanic took it for a test drive and said the car was revving and moving smoothly. So everyone, the car is arriving tomorrow and you will all get to see what this thing that has been keeping me awake looks like. Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Cool. This has surely been a saga for you. If it all comes together, you'll have quite a nice and unique car. As long as there's oil in the diff, you should be OK. Do you have a proper set of books (documentation) for the car? If not, visit www.peugeot505.info. Lots of good downloadable factory publications. You'll probably want to do a full fluid change as unless you know the brand and grade of oil, you can assume that corners might have been cut. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 I'm a firm believer of synthetic lubricants in the drivetrain - so if you can get them I'd recomend using the good stuff. The diffs you mentioned should also swap in with no problem. One thing that has me a bit baffled is how they stocked parts for this car that they handily swapped in. Are parts that easily attained there? Here I'd be down at least a week and that would be if I found the parts to even purchase! Only thing I can add it to provide LOTS of pictures! (link to an online album works best - or I can set you up with one in our members section in the galllery.) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ikenna Posted January 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Thanks N9TE & Rabin. Of course, I have planned to drain & refill all fluid as soon as the car arrives, including the coolant. i have heard how sensitive the PRV V6 engine cooling system can be. Rabin, over here, getting parts is never a problem. We dont have Junkyards as you people do. But we have what we call mechanic village or "Tincan" where anything called auto spare part can be found and bought within a minute, no mattter the car the part belongs to. Both new and used parts, fairy used engines, gearboxes, differentials, electricals, body parts, complete car bodies, etc. On weekly basis, containers loaded with various spare parts are imported and discharge in those Tincans. Also, used cars & accidented cars are sometimes brought in there, sold and stripped and different auto spare parts retailers would buy them off and keep in their respective shops for sales. Why else do you think I confidently bought this 505 V6 if am not sure of getting the spare parts? Even the complete ZN3J engines and gearboxes are been sold there. Infact, most people here prefer to replace their weak/faulty engines than have them rebuild cos they are easily available and affordable.. Though, we do have new/aftermarkets here, but in most cases prefer used parts cos most of these new parts are substandard. So we would go for fairy used ones, which we call " Tokunbo" parts, meaning fairy used imported auto parts. Infact, I will have to back up all these with pictures as time goes on, cos I will always have reason to visit Tincans when replacing part in that car. Though, the biggest two Tincans in Nigeria are in Lagos and Onistha, where I grew up. Onitsha is about 7hrs drive from here. But i will always be there whenever am visiting Parents. though can still get some of the parts I will need here in Abuja, the Federal Capital of Nigeria, where I work and live. Keeping cars on our road is never a problem for Nigerians, no matter the brand of the car, the model & age of the car. Anyway, as soon as the car arrives, I will post the car pictures. N9TE, i have downloaded all the necessary 595 V6 workshop manuals from the Peugeot505.info site before I made the purchase of the car. Though, geo/George here scanned and sent to me the 505 V6 owners manual which wasnt in the site i mentioned above. Thanks to him. Havent been seeing geo's post recently. Hope he is fine? Ikenna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 If you could post pictures of a Tincan - that would be appreciated! Rabin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick@nite Posted January 19, 2011 Report Share Posted January 19, 2011 Even if it's not a LSD diff you need to add LSD additive, or it goes bong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Even if it's not a LSD diff you need to add LSD additive, or it goes bong... Hi Ikenna, I am here and fine thanks. I've been following your saga and wishing you luck! I've never had any serious problems with my V6 engine so I've been learning from the experts here along with you. -George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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