DuBarr Peugeot

[andrethx]

Was in Garden Grove today for a client interview, decided to head down to DuBarr Automotive since I was already two-thirds of the way there.

If you look closely at my picture, you will see that Saturday is "by appointment only." I drove down to Huntington Beach in the driving rain for nothing. Yes, I should have called first.

Still, there were interesting things to see.

There were four 505 wagons in the parking lot in various stages of entropy (the three you see in the picture plus one more burgundy one behind them -- if you squint you can see its roof rack). I've never seen four Peugeot wagons in one place at once.

Andre

[Bean]

Wow - I always thought Dubarr was a dealership, so I was expecting a much bigger operation.

So is it purely a repair shop now?

Rabin

[andrethx]

Wow - I always thought Dubarr was a dealership, so I was expecting a much bigger operation.

So is it purely a repair shop now?

Rabin

DuBarr is located in a light-industrial business park -- it's off a secondary road, not off of a main drag (e.g., Beach Blvd. in this area) like you would expect for an active car dealership. The adjacent businesses are body shops, repair shops (there's a Jeep shop next door) and small-time manufacturing stuff. Also, there's no showroom or lot that I can see (save the facility's parking lot), so I'd have to say that this is now a repair shop and not a dealership -- at least, not a dealership in the sense that most of us would consider.

When I talked to the guy at Westside Peugeot the other week, he told me that he "still is a dealer," so he has access to Peugeot parts "from New Jersey"….he said that body parts were hard to come by but he could get mechanical parts. I wasn't sure what he meant by this, I took it to mean that he knows all of the obscure sources for Peugeot parts listed on this forum and elsewhere…sort of a bit of marketing to me (a potential future customer), since as far as I know, Peugeot has no formal parts distribution network in the US. Lawyers call that "puffery," an exaggerated claim to sell something that everyone knows is BS & can't really be proved anyway ("new and improved!").

An interesting aside: the Westside guy told me that when it comes to 505s, 1) later is better, 2) 5-speed is better than auto, and 3) avoid ABS cars since parts are hard to come by. He said that, a few years ago, he found a fabricator that could make replacement rotors for ABS cars, but they had a minimum order of 50 units and he didn't want to risk that kind of investment so he didn't follow through…he said that if he had to do it all over again, though, he'd have done the deal since he could have sold the inventory many times over since then…

Andre

[geo]

DuBarr is located in a light-industrial business park -- it's off a secondary road, not off of a main drag (e.g., Beach Blvd. in this area) like you would expect for an active car dealership. The adjacent businesses are body shops, repair shops (there's a Jeep shop next door) and small-time manufacturing stuff. Also, there's no showroom or lot that I can see (save the facility's parking lot), so I'd have to say that this is now a repair shop and not a dealership -- at least, not a dealership in the sense that most of us would consider.

When I talked to the guy at Westside Peugeot the other week, he told me that he "still is a dealer," so he has access to Peugeot parts "from New Jersey"….he said that body parts were hard to come by but he could get mechanical parts. I wasn't sure what he meant by this, I took it to mean that he knows all of the obscure sources for Peugeot parts listed on this forum and elsewhere…sort of a bit of marketing to me (a potential future customer), since as far as I know, Peugeot has no formal parts distribution network in the US. Lawyers call that "puffery," an exaggerated claim to sell something that everyone knows is BS & can't really be proved anyway ("new and improved!").

An interesting aside: the Westside guy told me that when it comes to 505s, 1) later is better, 2) 5-speed is better than auto, and 3) avoid ABS cars since parts are hard to come by. He said that, a few years ago, he found a fabricator that could make replacement rotors for ABS cars, but they had a minimum order of 50 units and he didn't want to risk that kind of investment so he didn't follow through…he said that if he had to do it all over again, though, he'd have done the deal since he could have sold the inventory many times over since then…

Andre

I've purchased used parts from Jesse at Dubarr. He was honest about the condition and shipped promptly.

-George

[nick@nite]

Peugeot is still around in NJ, My shop is still a dealer and still can order parts from the motherland. Though it's almost better to calling Miles, Madu, Rob Courter or Holms... There are so few parts avail from France and they are DHL'ed plus the cost has doubled with all the new shipped parts from France and a order takes about 2-6 weeks. It's better to call around the U.S. to the dedicated diehards to source the parts than it is to call Peugeot. It might even take 3 days to get a hold of them... It's like winning the lottery sometimes with them, but thats always the case finding pug parts

Though I think I'm ordering some 1109.N2 oil filters for Mi's and I'm still on a hunt for a Heater core for a 405 as well, which were available early this year but now there' s none through Peugeot now...

[pushgo]

Peugeot is still around in NJ, My shop is still a dealer and still can order parts from the motherland. Though it's almost better to calling Miles, Madu, Rob Courter or Holms... There are so few parts avail from France and they are DHL'ed plus the cost has doubled with all the new shipped parts from France and a order takes about 2-6 weeks. It's better to call around the U.S. to the dedicated diehards to source the parts than it is to call Peugeot. It might even take 3 days to get a hold of them... It's like winning the lottery sometimes with them, but thats always the case finding pug parts

Though I think I'm ordering some 1109.N2 oil filters for Mi's and I'm still on a hunt for a Heater core for a 405 as well, which were available early this year but now there' s none through Peugeot now...

Jesse actually has serviced my car on the things that I am not capable of doing or just dont plain have the tools to do never the less the time. He's Honest and dependable and good jobs are always something that any Peugeot owner can always count on....Speaking for actual happy experiences

[Bean]

An interesting aside: the Westside guy told me that when it comes to 505s, 1) later is better, 2) 5-speed is better than auto, and 3) avoid ABS cars since parts are hard to come by. He said that, a few years ago, he found a fabricator that could make replacement rotors for ABS cars, but they had a minimum order of 50 units and he didn't want to risk that kind of investment so he didn't follow through…he said that if he had to do it all over again, though, he'd have done the deal since he could have sold the inventory many times over since then…

Andre

Westside guy is now wrong about the ABS cars... (Couple years agon maybe not though...)

944 disks are a very close match. Little to no work is needed to make them fit, and with a little machine work on the hubs themselves - the Porsche disks will be a bolt on affair.

The ABS suspension is also MUCH easier to modify if doing the crazy stuff I am! Lots of suspension options open up with a two piece strut set up.

Also - ABS stuff is shared with Ford's, so it's really not that hard to fix it - and it costs about the same as any other ABS car.

Having experienced how good these ABS cars are for myself - I'm totally sold on them.

Rabin

[andrethx]

Westside guy is now wrong about the ABS cars... (Couple years agon maybe not though...)

944 disks are a very close match. Little to no work is needed to make them fit, and with a little machine work on the hubs themselves - the Porsche disks will be a bolt on affair.

The ABS suspension is also MUCH easier to modify if doing the crazy stuff I am! Lots of suspension options open up with a two piece strut set up.

Also - ABS stuff is shared with Ford's, so it's really not that hard to fix it - and it costs about the same as any other ABS car.

Having experienced how good these ABS cars are for myself - I'm totally sold on them.

Rabin

Rabin, from what I've read here and elsewhere, I'm sure you're right.

I can see the Westside guy's perspective, though. If I were a Peugeot dealer, I'd think twice before installing non-Peugeot brake parts, for the following reasons:

1) Peugeot might terminate the guy's dealership if they found he was servicing customers' brakes with non-Peugeot parts. I mean, they're paying that lawyer in NJ, if I were him that's what I'd recommend. If Peugeot ever did want to come back to the US, the relationships that they still have with the old dealer network would be problem number one, so the machiavellian (i.e., lawyerly) thing to do would be to get rid of them for stuff like this, if for no other reason than to say that you're doing your job. "Hey Peugeot, look at the bullet I helped you dodge! Here's my bill."

2) If a car you serviced with brake rotors from another make was ever involved in an accident in which the brakes were called into question (regardless of whether or not they ultimately were found to be at fault), the legal hassles would kill you, metaphorically speaking. It's one thing if you are doing this kind of part swap for yourself or a friend, it's another thing if you are in that business (i.e., an expert for legal purposes). Legally, shops are held to a higher standard.

Now, granted, these legal risks are just that, risks, but the Westside guy doesn't know me from adam, so why should he stick his neck out at all? I mean, it'd be one thing if VVV asked him to do this, they appear to have some kind of relationships and VVV probably has forgotten more about Peugeots than I'll ever know... So I can understand why he'd tell me that. Basically, I took it as "This is the car I'd like to see you buy as someone who might have to service it," rather than. "This is the car you'd be happiest with." Grain of salt, etc.

Andre

PS - sorry for the law-heavy post, I'm studying for the CA bar (attorney's exam) right now so I can't turn it off...

[nick@nite]

The U.S Lawyer is Peter Paine, and he's lives in northern NY.

Peugeot will not be coming back anytime soon, I know for a fact

Most aftermarket parts are suppose to meet or exceed OE standards. Peugeot would never terminate a dealer for serivcing a car with non-OEM parts. Most of these cars are over 20 years old and they stopped making most of the parts for the cars that they made for our U.S. market...

http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1681

[andrethx]

Peugeot would never terminate a dealer for serivcing a car with non-OEM parts. Most of these cars are over 20 years old and they stopped making most of the parts for the cars that they made for our U.S. market...

I would never presume to question your judgment about Peugeot's relationship with its US dealers -- you are, after all, one of them. Maybe the risk of dealership termination is so small that it isn't worth mentioning...it's probably not zero, though, since Peugeot does have a lawyer in the US.

I would just like to point out that machining 944 rotors to fit a 505 (or machining 505 hubs to fit 944 rotors) could be construed as tuning, not as servicing...depending on how you look at it. Not just riskier but also more hassle, I imagine the Westside guy was most concerned about the hassle (relating to ABS cars, not tuning per se).

Like I said, I'm having trouble turning the legal analysis off.

Andre

[nick@nite]

There's nothing better than OEM parts but when they're somtimes not available or the $ is through the roof like the ABS rotors....

Peter Paine is actually mostly retired, and there is no replacement of his' services either...

Peugoet will call Peter which very nice man, (not a Bloodsucker) in maybe once a year to go over to France and do a negotiation, which he speaks fluent french in...

Peter has told me there's nothing going on here in the states in terms of legal relation....