Binky Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Hi everyone (or should I say G'day!) From Melbourne, Australia. Long time lurker, first time poster. Last year I bought a 1970 504 Peugeot for much less than any of my guitars ever cost me! In Australia most of the 1970 model 504s are quite special as the were the only ones shipped here complete from France. The rest for the next decade were assembled in Australia. This car had a 1800cc engine with a blown head gasket. At first I planned to put a warm pushrod engine in it. But then shortly after my purchase, came a N9te engine with gearbox, intercooler, swaybar, front crossmember and original computers. I figured God was sending me a message, and so the project has begun... Those of you in more fortunate parts of the world may be inclined to suggest that shoe-horning an N9te into a 504 is not the smartest move. I would counter your argument by saying that I have the gearbox, engine and car, so why not give it a go?! This is one of only two of the N9te engines I have ever heared of coming to Australia. The other went into a 505 rally car. My understanding is that these engines were never released in right hand drive because Peugeot couldn't be arsed making the alterations required. As far as I can work out so far, the only alterations needed are changing the bend in the engine pipe to get around the steering column, and moving the intercooler which would otherwise be fouled by the brake booster. An extra curve in the engine pipe doesn't scare me, and I was planning to install a front mounted intercooler anyway! You can follow my work on this project on my local (Australian) forum aussiefrogs.com at: http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthrea...ed=1#post775774 (I hope this doesn't upset the administrators!) To me the process is as interesting as the finished product, although I am working on the shoestring budget of a tertiary student. Mechanicals are my home turf, but I'm not scared of electricals either. And if at the end of the day it doesn't work, I'll just dump an injected Range rover V8 into it and have an even faster car!!! I have done many searches on the internet, and have not been able to find evidence of this conversion ever having been attempted before. So if anyone knows of any such projects, I would love to hear about them, and maybe even contact those involved to garner some advice. I do have a few questions which will no doubt have you all placing your heads in your hands with dismay Question 1: On the left side of the engine, there is a brass(?) pipe under the inlet manifold. It has the vaccuum hose for the brake booster coming off it, as well as what I can only assume is the vaccuum advance hose coming of it also. On the engine I have, the point at which either end of this pipe enters the inlet manifold (one between 1 & 2 cylinder, the other between 3 & 4) has a short section of hose. About 2.5cm (1 inch for my American brothers!). The mounting of this pipe seems quite solid, and it has led me to wonder whether these sections of hose serve as merely shielding, as opposed to being functional. They look a bit old, and I figured they would be easier to replace before installing the engine "in situ" Question 2: The clutch which came with the assembly has *just* enough meat on it to go another round, but for future reference, I was wondering if clutch assemblies are readily available? I was thinking that given the turbo diesel 505s in Australia were also issued with a BA10/5 (albeit with a slightly shorter input shaft, and different bellhousing), that the same clutch assembly might fit? Question 3: There is a small bearing set in the middle of the flywheel. I'm guessing it is there just to ensure a straight marriage between the input shaft and clutch (Note: this is NOT the spigot bearing at the rear of the crank-case). It seems a little rough. Is this difficult to find a replacement for? Or is it a standard bearing (as it appears to be) which is readily available? Thanks everyone, this is a great site, and you can be sure to see more of me - whether you want to, or not! Binky. P.S. Binky is the name of my 1964 Peugeot 404, as titled by my girlfriend! It is white, and so she figured to name it after the white steed ridden by the Grim Reaper "Death" in Terry Pratchet's diskworld novels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 G-Day Binky... Welcome to the forum and glad you posted of your project. I think you might be the first N9TE swap into a 504, I've been debating the swap myself. For me it's a toss up between the N9TE, the PRV V6, or keeping the delightful XN1 in it and modding that. As for your questions: #1 - Pictures please. I'm not exactly sure what you are referring too as there is a coolant pipe under the intake mounted to the block, but that doesn't sound right. A picture would eliminate any doubt. #2 - Clutch disk - I believe the V6 and the N9TE shared the same clutch disk, but the diesel BA10 *might* run a different spline on the input shaft. That is purely a guess though - I'd just verify first. #3 - That bearing is a common bearing and should be had quite easily. It supports the transmission input shaft so it's a good idea to replace. Sounds like a heck of a project though - can't wait to see how you make out with it. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryancohnracing Posted February 3, 2010 Report Share Posted February 3, 2010 Binky, Sounds like an interesting project. But more important: Where can I find more of your music? I followed the link from the aussiefrogs site to your myspace page. Love the hair! Took me back to high school for sure dude! As Rabin noted, photos please. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Welcome here, mate. Between Julian at AutoSpeed.com, Motronic, Autronic, and all the other cutting edge Aussie companies, PLUS your unfettered access to the hottest Japanese hardware, I've always been totally jealous of you guys! Nice to have you here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binky Posted February 4, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 G-Day Binky... Welcome to the forum and glad you posted of your project. I think you might be the first N9TE swap into a 504, I've been debating the swap myself. For me it's a toss up between the N9TE, the PRV V6, or keeping the delightful XN1 in it and modding that. As for your questions: #1 - Pictures please. I'm not exactly sure what you are referring too as there is a coolant pipe under the intake mounted to the block, but that doesn't sound right. A picture would eliminate any doubt. #2 - Clutch disk - I believe the V6 and the N9TE shared the same clutch disk, but the diesel BA10 *might* run a different spline on the input shaft. That is purely a guess though - I'd just verify first. #3 - That bearing is a common bearing and should be had quite easily. It supports the transmission input shaft so it's a good idea to replace. Sounds like a heck of a project though - can't wait to see how you make out with it. Rabin Thanks people! I'm sure you're just flattering me in telling me that mine will be the only 504 N9te in the world!!!!!! ...In Australia, the BA10/5 for the PRV-V6 is also very difficult to come by. In fact, I had a PRV-V6 for over 12 months, waiting for the right gearbox to come along. The only reason I decided to go with the N9te project is because the matching gearbox came with the engine... #1 - Fair call, I know what you mean. The coolant pipe you refer to runs parallel to the pipe I'm describing. I will be visiting my project tomorrow, so should be able to take a photo then... Binky, Sounds like an interesting project. But more important: Where can I find more of your music? I followed the link from the aussiefrogs site to your myspace page. Love the hair! Took me back to high school for sure dude! As Rabin noted, photos please. Bryan Hehehe, Glad you liked it! We haven't done alot over the last year, but we've just got a new drummer who actually knows how to play, so we're getting started again... I know there's a few people overseas waiting to see what we do next. As for someone like me who has been following the Goth scene for many years, I was rather chuffed a year and a half ago when England's Mick Mercer gave us quite a positive review. If you want to hear more, I will be working in the near future to put more footage of us on YouTube. We will be recording more in the next few months (Independant, original music costs alot!). I will try to let you know when we have anything new recorded Welcome here, mate. Between Julian at AutoSpeed.com, Motronic, Autronic, and all the other cutting edge Aussie companies, PLUS your unfettered access to the hottest Japanese hardware, I've always been totally jealous of you guys! Nice to have you here! Aaaaahhhhhhh, the grass is always greener!!!! As I said, this N9te is one of only two I know of in Australia, so parts are difficult, but if anything, Aussies deserve respect for their intense faithfulness to Pugs. You know, there are even a couple of guys here who are cramming Nissan SR20 engines into their 504's! - Hell, comparitively I'm taking the easy way out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 4, 2010 Report Share Posted February 4, 2010 Pics will confirm for sure. I thought my N9TE's had a vacuum "tree" under there with multiple ports, not so much a pipe. I'll take a look again and see if it is indeed a pipe that runs parallel to the coolant pipe. If so I'll take pics and describe where the lines go to. BTW - I also gave the link a try and really liked your music. So make sure to keep us posted. Is there a way to get your current stuff? Itunes maybe? Back in the day, my wife and I had many Goth friends (still do actually) and would often go to the raves and all night dance parties. I'm also a fan of The Cure - so it was great to hear your stuff. At 38 - most have gradually moved away from the Goth scene - but they're still very much Goths at heart! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binky Posted February 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2010 A thousand apologies for taking so long to get back with pics, but I had a good excuse! A close friend of the family is a very talented bodywork guy. He started off with Alfa 105s, and whilst he still does an unbelievably good job on such cars, he also did a ripper of a job on my dad's 1955 203, and is now the "go to guy" for Australian Aston martin officionados... Anyway, this guy has finally agreed to help me with sorting out Binky (1964 Peugeot 404). He needs some rust fixed, and a thick enough coat of paint to last as my daily driver until the government outlaws cars over a certain vintage Anyway, back to business... The red arrow points to one of the two short hoses I was referring to. The brass-looking pipe it connects to, I also referred to. The Green arrow points to what I believe is our previously discussed coolant pipe. The yellow arrow points to that which I have deduced to be the brake booster vaccuum hose. The blue circle shows something similar to a fuel injector. Certainly the left pipe (due West) is supplying fuel to this junction, but to me, it doesn't make sense for this to be the cold start injector???? This next image shows a pipe coming off the bottom of the turbocharger. To me it looks like a low pressure oil return (to the crankcase) pipe. Am I correct, and if so, what type of hose should I use to replace this? The BA10/5 gearbox is new to me... Is the plastic plug on the intermediate housing which I've circled with red, the oil inlet plug? I can't see any other point on the grearbox housing which would allow the input of oil, but I wasn't sure if the intermediate, and rear housings were isolated from the main housing? Similarly, Is the plug I've circled in cyan the drain plug? ...seems a bit stupid for the drain plug to be about an inch above the lowest level?! What kind of oil do you guys use for the engine and gearbox? These are the numbers on the side if my engine. They don't seem to fit any of the descriptions I've found on this forum re: European, Scandanavian, or US. Can anyone shed some light on these details? What kind of engine do I have?! Finally, as I'm putting this engine in an early 504, I really don't need power steering, so I removed the power steering pump. But then I was left with this huge, ugly bracket which seemed to double as a feature to facilitate the securing of the timing cover. Has anyone removed their power steering, and fabricated a a smaller bracket, just for the alternator? Much thanks, Binky. P.S. Thanks Bean re: your comments on Goth. It is an unfortunately misunderstood subculture these days. People always seem to think it involves an obsession with death and heavy metal, whereas it has more to do with melodic melancholy and an existential awareness... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted February 17, 2010 Report Share Posted February 17, 2010 A thousand apologies for taking so long to get back with pics, but I had a good excuse! A close friend of the family is a very talented bodywork guy. He started off with Alfa 105s, and whilst he still does an unbelievably good job on such cars, he also did a ripper of a job on my dad's 1955 203, and is now the "go to guy" for Australian Aston martin officionados... Anyway, this guy has finally agreed to help me with sorting out Binky (1964 Peugeot 404). He needs some rust fixed, and a thick enough coat of paint to last as my daily driver until the government outlaws cars over a certain vintage Awesome news - Binky sounds like she's in good hands! Anyway, back to business... The red arrow points to one of the two short hoses I was referring to. The brass-looking pipe it connects to, I also referred to. I would use Fuel line for these junctions as it looks like the cold start injector is feeding the intake via these tubes - hard to tell from the pic. The Green arrow points to what I believe is our previously discussed coolant pipe. Yup The yellow arrow points to that which I have deduced to be the brake booster vaccuum hose. Yup The blue circle shows something similar to a fuel injector. Certainly the left pipe (due West) is supplying fuel to this junction, but to me, it doesn't make sense for this to be the cold start injector???? That is indeed the cold start injector. This next image shows a pipe coming off the bottom of the turbocharger. To me it looks like a low pressure oil return (to the crankcase) pipe. Am I correct, and if so, what type of hose should I use to replace this? You need some hose rated for engine oil - parts place or a hydraulic place should be able to hook you up. The BA10/5 gearbox is new to me... Is the plastic plug on the intermediate housing which I've circled with red, the oil inlet plug? I can't see any other point on the grearbox housing which would allow the input of oil, but I wasn't sure if the intermediate, and rear housings were isolated from the main housing? Similarly, Is the plug I've circled in cyan the drain plug? ...seems a bit stupid for the drain plug to be about an inch above the lowest level?! The top plastic part is the vent. The tranny doesn't take a lot of oil, so the side plug is indeed the fill point. There should be two lower drain plugs though - one at the very rear, and one in the middle. Both should be near the bottom of the tranny. Drain and fills are the same plug so it should be easy to find. What kind of oil do you guys use for the engine and gearbox? My cars usually run AMSOIL or Redline synthetic oil in the engines, Redline 75W90 NS in the tranny and rear diff. Can't help with the engine numbers though - I've never checked them out so I have no idea what they mean. Finally, as I'm putting this engine in an early 504, I really don't need power steering, so I removed the power steering pump. But then I was left with this huge, ugly bracket which seemed to double as a feature to facilitate the securing of the timing cover. Has anyone removed their power steering, and fabricated a a smaller bracket, just for the alternator? Shouldn't be an issue removing the bracket and replacing the bolts with shorter bolts where it holds the cover on. Doing up a custom bracket - or even cutting down the stock bracket to fit shouldn't be an issue at all. P.S. Thanks Bean re: your comments on Goth. It is an unfortunately misunderstood subculture these days. People always seem to think it involves an obsession with death and heavy metal, whereas it has more to do with melodic melancholy and an existential awareness... Yes - I have to admit I was very much under the same impression at first as the visual appearance is so striking and different. (I was a small town kid - I admit it). It was only after I was introduced and had become good friends with my girlfirends friends, and got a taste of the culture myself that the whole visual appearance thing just disappeared. Still good friends 20 years later... (dear god - it's been 20 years!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norcal505 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 this looks like a very cool project to me. never seen it done before! shame that you guys didnt get the turbos down there. by the way, The cure kicks ass. yeah, maybe a few years before my time, but I love their sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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