N9TE

Well, original concourse examples are just not gonna happen. There was that Euro-spec XN6 car in that Vegas collection going for $10K, but we're not going to get a look at that. I view electrical fixes (if done correctly) as a safety issue and better than OEM. Or at a minimum "as good" as original. Now, if you made the horn button flash the fog lights... Well... But if functionality is restored and it's a safety issue, then it has to be treated as correct. A more complex issue is the intake hard pipe that I had fabricated for Paraic's blue car. It looks no way stock, but the OEM part is NLA. I'd have to give that a Good To Go. But it's aluminum instead of black. Would I feel the same way had I painted it neon Honda orange? I don't know. The only reason I didn't paint it black is black hides dirt and oil better than aluminum. I'm not a big fan of black in the engine compartment for that reason. But people get really silly with that. I think discussions like that are going to be fun and I don't have problems with that at all. Seeing the cars are not Pebble material, you just can't knock someone for a well done tower brace or Optimum battery with dorky machined aluminum hold down. We're after factory behavior and general condition. I say we push forward and handle the judging of individual item by consensus later on.

All sounding good. Who wants to cook up the first spreadsheet. Wonder if Google Docs would be start. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am3B0IBxcTy3dGlQSHNEUmJFZ2c0aGdLQ0JHcTBNSGc&hl=en_US I set it so anybody could view it. I'm sure you have to have a gmail account to edit it. I added Rabin, Andre, PM me your email. There is now an online database (Google Form). https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Am3B0IBxcTy3dEtacmJYb0tjTUdlZDJLeHN3VG9EZVE&hl=en_US I always wondered if these online collaboration tools would be useful. Here goes!

Right! I should have remembered that (George). Wish he made it here more often. For our cars, there should be a few things clarified about "originality" vs "restored". These cars aren't Ferraris or Bentlys. Nobody thinking that way. If you've got a 87 car but it's got a 89 steering wheel. As long as the colors match, all good. Same for a Peugeot Momo. But the one made from a chain you'd find on a low rider... Well, not really. Rob's new seats would be like ... new seats. Anything safety related is 100% a go. Full concessions to reproduction parts. As it is, most of the suppliers that made parts for our cars got swallowed up by other companies now. Sometimes Peugeot sourced parts from two or more different suppliers. My question is. How anal do we get? Is someone going to lose a point because their right rear window switch isn't illuminated? I also think certain components should be weighted. I've got roached seats on my 89. Everything else in the car could be 100%, but with the crappy seats, it should lose 1/2 of all possible interior points - not just one. A spreadsheet would be nice.

I'll take two

Sure, that works for me. Should we modify it for our cars and go with that?

Yup, I agree Andre, a dollar-based valuation would come later when we got cars properly appraised. But, within the 505 community we can set a standard. I'd like to see a 100 point system. I propose the following point system: Drivetrain (engine, tranny diff) 30 points Paint (paint, dents, trim, etc) 20 points Suspension (springs, shocks, brakes, handbrake) 20 points Interior (seats, dash, trim, carpet, rattles, etc) 20 points Electrical (switches, lights, etc.) 10 points Granted, if you're looking at a real beater, you could end up with a negative number. But that's OK. There are a lot of beaters. A few cars would break 90 (not mine!). I'm thinking of Alex Nunez' wagon. Thoughts?

The unfortunate event that happened to Nick's car got me to thinking. How many nice 505s are left? Andre, Rabin and I are tossing around the idea of a registry. And that will happen, but how does one determine the condition of a car on an objective basis? I'm in favor of creating a standard like the IACPFA that Ferraris are judged by. Here is their standard: http://www.ferrariclubofamerica.org/resources/DocuWorks/file_display.cfm?id=68 As to the nuts and bolts of an assessment, there's this from "Automobile Inspectors". http://www.automobileinspections.com/services/samples/report-sample-08.asp The Mustang Club of America even makes their judges pass a test! http://www.midcomustang.com/mustangmcajudging.shtml Granted, at first, we'll be "judging" our own cars as there are few times when there are more than a couple of Peugeot owners in the same place at the same time. But, it's a start. I suppose we could do this digitally here. People posting pictures with follow-up pictures as requested. I'd be very curious to find out what people think of this idea.

There's another screw behind the "triangle" next to the clock.

Glad you didn't get banged up too much. That's the important thing. The car... I don't know if 505s are the right cars for this. I mean, it's so inherently dangerous. Sure, it's the driver, but even the best drivers launch off dozens of times in their careers. You have to drive on the bleeding edge ALL THE TIME. You're just gonna lose a bunch of cars that way. I wanted to get a Fire Arrow with that awesome Mitsubishi 2.6 Silent Shaft cars a few years ago. But, nope. They were all raced (usually rallyed) and pretty much all gone. Same for the MK1 Fiestas. What's the plan going forward?

Ya, I think so. Manual mirrors are very rare. I need the rubber "accordian" parts that go between the mirror and the base. They probably don't sell the individual parts. Mine (and nearly every one I've seen) are electric. Look into N9TE/A radiator hoses. Shipping be damned. I just checked, they're NLA in France! Same for air cheaner for the V6. There's a few parts like those where if you had some, you'd be the only one who had them!

NICE! Are these also repro parts from Argentina? You probably could move a number of these.

Nice. Do you correspond with each entry these days? Seeing the total number is so (relatively) small?

I have tool sets #2 and #3 shown. Not the spring one. That would be neat. I also have the front brake set and N9T engine set. I've also got a couple of others. They're addictive! What I'd like to have someday is the one for the rear brakes - but I've pretty much mastered the rear calipers. And the one that let you work on the torque tube. I don't know of anybody that has THAT one.

Portland has a few dyno shops. I would be surprised if it didn't put 130HP to the rear wheels. Back in the day it was www.horsepowerfreaks.com with a good dyno. Should be around $75 retail for a pull.

It pulled hard but didn't ever hit fuel cut. Has the turbo behavior changed since I last drove it?

Ya, I know what you mean. I have a couple of Nieces in Nice. Noooo, just Paris - just thought that would be funny! And they're not petrolheads in the least. Dare I say it, but they might not even know what a Peugeot is. I've bought from matramagic.co.uk without incident. In fact, it was a very frictionless deal. Cool guy.

I thought the blue smoke was valve stem seals. I've had two other cars with that (Toyotas - one Cressida and one Supra) and valve stem seals cleared that up on those cars. The tell-tale sign is letting it idle. For about two minutes - car completely warmed up. Then knock it up to 3K RPM. You should see smoke. Also, a lot of smoke on start-up is an indicator. The valve stem seals are cheap $40 for the set. Part number: 0956.14. But, it is a lot of work. http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/valve_stem/index.html I have not done this job on the N9T. Nick or Bryan would be experts on this. Guys, chime in and let us know if this can be done without removing the cylinder head.

eBay or do you have someone on the ground there that does parts sourcing? I have relatives in France and I've wondered about sending them out with a "shopping list" before.

Is not the speedometer cable a two piece unit with a rev counter device in the middle that is used for cruise control? I hear cruise is something European drivers don't do. Does this cable reflect that?

Eh, no. Not really. I couldn't swing it. I'm just about at my limit as far as parts unavailability goes. Plus, there's a value delta I'd have to close and it's in VT. I'm seriously drooling though. Oh yeah, and my wife would kill me.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh Does he want to trade a decent 89 turbo stick?!

I had actually had a Valeo AN14A (or whatever) alternator rebuilt on my 87 turbo by a local shop. They said it would be no problem and it wasn't. Except that the brushes wore out in six months. I took it back to them with a factory OEM brush kit from my stash and that solved the problem. Beware of brushes sourced in a rather large and industrious Asian country with a dubious reputation for quality... Other than that, our alternators are not anything special and very rebuildable by a reputable shop.

Really? Actually, the diagnostic flow chart is well designed and efficient. Nice find on the tachymetric relay! I've bought from matramagic.co.us a couple of times with great results.

There are a bunch of things that can cause a no-spark/no-start with the N9T. Download the N9T service manual and go through the ignition diagnostic flow chart. You can d/l it at www.peugeot505.info.

Won't be a problem. Wasn't on my 87. There's no interference.