Noob- 505 Turbo - Need major advice

[1320Turbo]

Ok so I'm 17, and before anyone jumps on my case because I know these cars are somewhat "exotic" in their own fashion but I have great respect for european designed cars. Right now I own a 1993 Stealth ES that has been fully converted to a 3000GT, did all the work myself as well as a motor transplant and redid the entire interior, so i'm no 17 year old rice rocket lover, granted my car is japanese I know what it is and isnt.

Ok so the advice i need....My uncle offered me a free 505 turbo sedan. He last drove it doing 135 down route 84 and blew a radiator line or the radiator failed, not sure what it was but overall the motor overheated. He drove it home after letting it cool down on the side of the road and its been parked for some time in his yard. Started it several times after so it did run as of about 2 years ago or whenever it was. Seems as a simple fix to get it going, I know how cars that sit need alot of tlc but i'm willing to give it the elbow grease, my stealth sat in a garage for 3 years before I got it. Body is rust free, motor seems to be clean for sitting for as long as it has and the interior is in great shape minus needing a serious dusting and some tlc, front seats have some rips but I intend on replacing them with some seats from a stealth (omg mad comfortable). Comes with 2 sets of factory rims, tires are bad though, no problem really. It has some little mods, like an aftermarket intake and a boost controller. My uncle has several cars, 13 to be exact including a 700hp 63 corvette, got to ride in the new drag 65 nova which left a ton of rubber down just driving it around town but anyhow the question is....i'm willing to give it the effort but is this a car that is going to be worth it for me to fix? how well does it handle? how much power will I feel? How reliable are these cars, it has 138,000 miles? Are there things to look for specificaly that go bad? Before I start dumping time into research and figuring out what and where to get parts should I embark on this?

dont know what year - more pics can be viewed at my myspace- www.myspace.com/stefansracing

-Matt

[norcal505]

nice car man

i wish there were more people our age who liked peugeots-all my friends "dont appreciate" the peugeot's style

i would jump on the car, theyre rare, and you should keep it

pics look like the car has some good things

any more pics/info on the exhaust?

i see a chrome tip

also im guessing that the car is a 86+, as i think the dash is boxier than the series 1 dash.

im guessing you have the N9TE engine, nice as its intercooled.

*PLEASE* get some more pics as soon as you can, and some of the engine bay please

nice find, and this one should be a keeper

[Bean]

Kudo's on the 3000 GT and for doing the work yourself! The 3000GT is kinda like the 505 Turbo's in that they're mostly under rated and usually not well known - but for the few that do know what they are and what they are capable of - they're treasured. A buddy at work up here in Regina SK has a GORGEOUS red 3000 GT VR4 (may not know the official name... He's crazy anal and the car even has new weatherstripping. He just upgraded the turbo's and has a whack load into it - had no idea those engines can push 1000 HP... His target is 600+ AWHP.

As for the Pug - they're a DAMN fine car with some potential, and one of the nicest handling cars for the vintage and even today if the suspension is in good shape. From the pic on this post it's an 86 - 88'.

From what you described - if the engine got REALLY hot there's a big chance the headgasket is gone and possibly a head crack - but the best thing to do is get it running after taking the usual precautions for an engine that has sat (change oil with cheapest store brand oil, pull plugs, oil cylinders, pull valve cover, oil valvetrain, crank with no plugs to lube engine) Do a compression test and see how good the numbers are. I'd also check the fuel tank for stale/rusty fuel - drain and fill with fresh if possible. You can do without the pre-oiling - but I go the extra step to avoid any issues of turning a dry motor. If compression looks good (all within 10% and over 100 psi) - then go about firing it up.

Once running - check the overflow resevoir for bubbles while idling - if there's bubbles then you likely have a head crack - it which case you probably have a nice parts car. Good 505 Turbo's are cheap if you find the right one - so even though this one's free - it still might be cheaper to get a runner. As for the seats - give them a try before swapping them out - they're world famous seats man - some of the best ever put in a car. I've never sat in 3000 GT seats - but I've done a bonzai 40 hour drive from Virgina to Saskatchewan in my 86 Turbo and it was no problem in those seats. Easily some of the best I've ever sat in.

BTW - I'm older now - but I first started in with Peugeot's I was your age too. Swapped a V6 4-sp stick into a 504 Peugeot that was a 4 cylinder auto in my driveway with no books, and some basic tools. What I learned on that car took me a LONG way - from my professional career in IT (long story) to working as a race mechanic at Pike's Peak on a Ford RS200evo driven by Stig Blomqvist... I'm now 36 - and I STILL love Peugeots!

Not sure what you're budget is, but I think the car is worth it as a driver. You likely won't make money on it, and it will cost more than it's worth to fix - but once running you likely won't regret it one bit. There's probably a reason why you're uncle had it in his stable - so ask him what he thought of it!

quick and dirty answers:

- 160 - 170 HP stock, 215 ft lbs torque - but the car feels pretty quick indeed. Turbo is a bit laggy - but a hoot once spooled.

- Handles AWESOME. great brakes, and one of the best feeling suspensions out there.

- If maintained well - very reliable. If not - it's just like most any other car. I've bought several "white elephants" and each one was dead reliable with proper care and tuning - often undoing other idiot fixes done by inexperienced mechanics.

- major issue is the cracked head. It cracks from the exhaust valve to the cooling jacket - so coolant gets burned and the cooling system gets pressurized with combustion pressure. Second would be overboosting caused by a stuck or leaking WG - that usually ends in piston damage. Car is pretty reliable otherwise.

Good to have you on the site!

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

all in all say the head was damaged, how much would it cost to have it replaced? are these sohc or dohc motors and where would I look to parts. I understand with any car with any project you always put more into it (stealth/3000gt has about 7,000 into it when its worth about 4) and these cars are KBB'd at about $1300. I'm sure due to rarity selling it for $3000 in good shape is no issue. Anywho back to the heads, how beefy are the heads....erm....head and block? how much boost will it hold? he's got a boost controller so the PSI are turned up a bit but say I turn it up 5 psi, what power numbers would I be expecting? Looking to turn it into a little bit of a daily driver drag car.

No info on the exuast, i assume it was stock, looks like a full 3 inch all the way back though.

and as far as pics, he lives about an hour away and I only had my cell on me and could be outside checking it out for about 10 minutes because we had to go eat dinner.

and ONE last question...Do they make front lips for these cars. Would look tuff as nails with one

[norcal505]

theyre rare as hell in europe, 10 times rarer in the us

you alredy have the lip that im looking for,(standard on turbo models), i have a n/a 505.

but.. they 89 505 turbos' bumpers were completely restyled and had a pretty cool standard lip kit w. nice rear spoiler.

heres your type car...

heres the 89 turbo...

heres my type car, the old n/a series 1 model ...

these here are all 505 sedan bodystyles ever sold in america.(argentina also had their own cool one)

europeans/rest of the world (except for canada) had a different version 505. Notable differances are;gas tank door on left side, smaller bumpers, different style lights, antenna in front, and way better engine options.

plus-they got the turbo models way nicer than we did, and before us.

europeans had cool ones like these..

heres's the european 505 turbo evolution model:

argentinens had cool ones like this...

[Bean]

Hey Matt,

Try reading through this site for topics on engine build ups - there's been a lot of bench racing and stuff, and there are those that are building up engines, as well as those that just hopped up existing engines without touching the internals.

As with anything it's all about the $$$ spent. If you want the minimum - then you need to upgrade injectores to 804's at least (337cc) and then you could probably run 17 psi and that should get you a good 250+ HP but you'd want to also either vent the TMIC or change it to a FMIC. Any higher boost and you'd need to do water injection. As with anything though - doing it on the cheap means it's not ideal and longevity suffers.

If the head is cracked - there's a place called Ericsson Industries that rebuilds heads - I think it's around a $1500 touch if they still do them. Back to the $$$ - if you want to spend the big bucks - you can build these engines into whatever you want. Internal parts are hard to come by - so we're trying to find substitutes for stuff that are no longer available. Right now main and rod bearings are hard to find stock - but we just need to find something that will work instead. I've researched Ford 2.3 Turbo pistons and they should work with the rods + take displacement up to 2.5L. Lots of room in the block to bore out - but I'm I've got to sort out a source for bearings before I dive in.

With high boost the engine and head will hold it, but the engine uses head bolts - so I was going to change them to head studs with a custom head gasket. My plan is for 300+ RWHP - but I'm on a LONG term build up...

Exhaust is stainless, with mandrel bends and about 2.5" - good for anything you do to about 250 HP - but the rear muffler would be good to replace as the internal baffles often come loose and sound like ass.

I'd suggest the daily driver bit, but the drag part I'd say not so much. The car's meant to be a killer highway cruiser, but I've autocrossed mine and it's still a hoot. Straight line stuff would be a waste of the cars strengths - but it has the jam to be decent at it.

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

good points, I'm noticing these cars are popular in SCCA. but anyhow....

WHAT am i getting into?

Car has been sitting, is it going to cost THAT much to repair, i already understand parts are hard to come by although junkyards are beautiful. What are the production numbers on these anyway and whats the stock boost PSI.

oh and yes I would intend on a FMIC, the TMIC is a retarded idea IMO. If not I'd slap on a pair of stock side mounts from a 3000GT VR4 which I can pick off of 3si for dirt cheap since everyone puts on FMIC's

Matt

[august]

hey matt, here is a link to one of the webmaster's project cars, with a little breakdown of what he did, and how much gain from what upgrade, etc etc.

http://www.505turbo.com/project505.php

Finding parts is hard for these cars due to a lot of stuff not being made anymore. There is also virtually 'no' aftermarket part availability, so anything that's NFP you have to either source from another brand, or make it custom. which can be fun, but tiring after a while (at least for me ).

also, if the wheel's are oem, it's an 85-86

the boost depends on the year. the N9TE (86-97) ran about 9psi if i remember right, and the N9TEA (88+) used a larger turbo with electronically 'modified' boost which was a 11.5psi base, but can reach 14.5psi if conditions are ideal (*cold* ambient temp, cool engine temp, no detonation etc etc).

as rabin said, 804 injectors are a must unless you want cracked pistons. i would suggest getting the car tuned 'right' in stock trim, re-calibrate everything and get it working well. then adjust boost (adjustable WG actuator rod), install 804 injectors, and a 3bar fuel pressure regulator. Adjust the boost to 17psi and you'll be running the supposed "sport" trim offered by Peugeot in europe in the 80's. This supposedly put down 240hp, but i'm sure that number was coming from using good 98 leaded whatever kinda gas they had (yeah, good gas makes a huge difference in power with these engines).

hopefully that answers a few of your questions, but don't be afraid to ask, we're all here to help

[1320Turbo]

that might make some sense, and i guess these cars are balanced well, went on youtube and the first 2 video's are of a drifting 505, that might be fun but anyhow say the head is cracked, how many people on these forums are in the states and would be able to supply a head for me or parts to fix it.

coolant system stuff like is said to be wrong is a simple thing since I can get generic hoses and whatnot and just bend em how I need them.

how many miles do the motor generaly go before just poo pooing

also car has exhasut ( i believe ), intake and a boost controller already as well as whatever the bosch thinggers are in the front, never seen em before.

Matt

[Bean]

Hey Matt,

TMIC's are retarded - but it's a packaging consideration since it's easily integrated into production since it's part of the motor rather than requiring changes to the body shell. (Mazda Speed 6 does the same thing even now.)

As for the head - they are rare like hens teeth - so when you have them uncracked they're pretty valuable to that person - but worthless to others! So you can find them on e-bay once in a while and they go CHEAP usually. A GOOD machine shop experienced with welding alloy cracks can probably fix it with no problem - the issue is finding a GOOD shop to do the work. Once welded and stress relieved the head is good to go.

As for mileage - it's with any car. All my cars run good synthetic, proper warm up, cool down, and the oil gets changed often. My car probably only has 120K miles and it still had (has?) 120 psi straight across. (purchased with 70 K miles) Seals are tired though and it needs some freshening - but it's still a fast car with only running 12 psi boost. Slaloming it was a waste with any more boost as it spins like crazy on boost - which is fun - but not fast. Car is VERY well balanced though so I could dance the thing through gates sideways and still get decent times. Car is limited with the wheels though - as it needs more rubber to put the power down. (See my post on the wheel upgrade I'm working on.)

I wouldn't make and decisions till you actually check the car out. Verify what it has, and verify if it the head is cracked. If you're waivering and aren't sure - just pull the plugs and squirt WD40 down the holes before firing it up - don't worry about the valvetrain oiling. Fire it up and see what it sounds like. If it sounds good after warming up - then you can consider patching the cooling system enough to see if the head is cracked. (Compression test should tell too) but the crack will sometimes need heat to open up - so it has to run for a bit.

The car is a fantastic driver - and if running well - you will not be disappointed. It's a very unique car that NO ONE ELSE likely has within 50 miles! I dig the exclusive factor as most don't know what it is - but I still haven't found a better balanced, comfortable car that puts a smile on my face like the 505 Turbo.

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

so in other words its worth the $80 to get it towed. If the had is cracked I'm sure quite of you forum goe'rs need some parts ;-). Judging by the back he drove it home with no problems tells me that theres a good chance the head is fine as well as even with sitting theres no real signs of an area where oil and whatnot would be spewed out etc. Gotta get the new motor for the 3000GT first, should be in 2 weeks, plan on picking it up end of febuary.

Anyone know what the bosch bumper like things in the front used for besides looking cool?

Intentions if I get it going are tinted tails, throwing in some HID's, maybe some interior glow (not a ricer, but the interior has a nice area to illuminate at a show since i go to alot to hang out), polishing everything up, maybe compounding the paint, probably just a wax though and I like the stock rims, might buff them down and repaint them to freshen the look up. Need a reliable DD since I intend to go TT with the 3000 and that will be down for a month or so on that one, aha. Steady Job + a DD (or two) = FOR THE WIN

oh and I'll probably have my friend cut out a vynil 505Turbo.com banner for the side windows or something, aha.

Matt

[norcal505]

lol.

those are Bosch OEM driving lights.

have em on both my cars.

hey, and my 505 came with the same Bosch Pilot covers!

if you make those 505turbo.com stickers, please sell us some!!

i'm down

[1320Turbo]

lol.

those are Bosch OEM driving lights.

have em on both my cars.

hey, and my 505 came with the same Bosch Pilot covers!

if you make those 505turbo.com stickers, please sell us some!!

i'm down

I'm assuming the covers come off and they're lights? would be cooler if they were semi transparent and looked black in the day but glowed at night, lol.

and yeah got a few friends with vynil cutters. Usualy I get masks because I do the whole rc buisness - www.jamminlidz.com

[1320Turbo]

oh and what color is the dashboard glow anyway? Got a blue Prosport oil temp gauge i'm trying to sell in blue or white glow

need to get a real boost gauge too

[Bean]

Dash lights are amber...

Proper boost gauge is also a must... Keep us posted on what you decide - and yes - if you pass on it and decide to part it out you'll easily make you're tow $$ back on parts.

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

Dash lights are amber...

Proper boost gauge is also a must... Keep us posted on what you decide - and yes - if you pass on it and decide to part it out you'll easily make you're tow $$ back on parts.

Rabin

since I dont have it sitting infront of me, does it have an oil temp gauge? I have the prosport and I can wire it up white and it'll look fine and might be of use, however I need to know what type of oil filter it uses. Have a sandwich plate for a 3000GT and its a thead in type oil filter.

Matt

[norcal505]

i think mine has an oil temp gauge (well its kinda half a gauge)

i have a old series 1 n/a model though, with a whole other dash and gauge setup

lol, yeah those driving lights are awesome

[1320Turbo]

alright, so i guess its decided its worth a shot. With 250 horses in possibility and the fact the rear end doesnt hook up great and its RWD and yet a balanced car it could be my absolute favorite toy on wet roads

[norcal505]

YES!!!

[Bean]

Good to hear you're taking a chance...

I should clarify though - the car hooks up pretty damn well in spirited driving - but when going 10/10's on a slalom course that meant keeping it on boost as much as possible to avoid the lag... Sometimes that meant some "drifting" techniques were needed keep it on boost through a turn for the straight... Not usually the fast way around in a slolom - but it was when I was having to avoid the lag...

It'll be much better now with a BOV - but stock the lag really sucks on a close course. When I designed the courses they were wide open power courses and the car usually did really well indeed.

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

well it comes with 2 sets of rims and i got a friend who works for a toyota dealership as a mechanic, as long as the tire size is common i'll have alot of mostly worn down freebies to play around with.

ok the downside is its an automatic, how hard is it to convert to manual?

i know on the 3000gt's theres a slight cutting in the firewall and then everything bolts up exactly the same without modification.

Matt

[Bean]

No cutting at all - just need to have a parts car with all the goodies to swap it over. Only thing needed is to put a pilot bearing into the crank for the 5-sp input shaft.

Good luck man and keep us posted!

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

i'm just thinking ahead, i'll have the 3000GT as a daily for a good while when i'm working on this, when I get at least 230 to the wheels in this one safely it'll be my daily until it dies so maybe I can do projects on the 3000 that wont hurt me if i dont get them done in a day.

also i want to know how the turbo system works. Can I relocate the TMIC or just build a box around it, thought about taking some pvc and making some tubes to direct air toward it. Also do these cars have MAP's or MAF's because I would really like to put on a nice BOV. Who's going to expect that loud CHOOOO sound from an 80's french sedan.

also how loud is the stock turbo valve

Matt

[Bean]

They don't have a stock BOV (hence the lag in auto-x), and they have Bosch L-jet which uses a VAF. (Vane air flow meter)...

I know Trevor and maybe August run BOV's and I'll be running one as well - but I want to vent mine back preturbo to help with response... (Probably negligible - but I'll do it anyway...

As for venting the TMIC - probably the easiest rather than FMIC - but not as cool... The car has an underhood scoop that directs cool air to the top of it, so if you built a box underneath it and vented it to a low pressure area it would help air flow through it alot. That or put a scoop on the top of it through the hood...

You could also put a reverse scoop on it, and bring pressurized air under it to get more air flow...

Basically anything you find to get more air flowing through it is what you want...

Rabin

[1320Turbo]

i was thinking building a box and just venting air toward it, maybe if I can try to position it a little differently so its easier to get air by it. If I throw on a BOV it'll be vented to atmosphere.

If im floored from a stop how long does it take to get the turbo fully spooled....stock...with bov?

Matt