EvanB Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 I am looking at a 505 turbo that has been for sale for awhile, I started a post on grassrootsmotorsports.com and Rabin chimed in with some tips. I have been browsing this forum for a bit but just registered. Here is the ad for the 505: http://columbus.craigslist.org/cto/3263380304.html It has been for sale for over a year. I just called the seller a few minutes ago to ask him some questions. He said the main fuel pump is fine but the in-tank pump is the one that is dead. He is in the process of changing it and putting the tank back in but said he hasn't had much time to work on it. The engine rebuild consisted of headgasket, rods, bearings, injectors, etc. He said he has also replaced the brakes and steering rack with tie-rod ends. It isn't his first 505 and he also has an 87 Turbo automatic. Anything to look for if I go to check it out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N9TE Posted October 28, 2012 Report Share Posted October 28, 2012 No matter what, you've got a significant project there. I'd be saying the same thing if you were looking at a BMW from 1985. Realize it's much harder to bring a Peugeot back because of the parts shortage. Something that old and tired will require just about everything done to it sooner rather than later. If you're good with that, then go for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanB Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I'm no stranger to old project cars that need everything but I haven't had too many cars with a parts shortage problem like a Peugeot. Are most parts available? I am not against using alternate parts or modifying them to work with the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 If the engine rebuild is legit, and done well - most of the NLA parts won't be an issue. With patience and $$ most engine parts are available, but you have to do some hunting. These cars have never had the same kind of modification ladder that say Volvo or BMW owners have developed for those marques, but the same methods and the same $$$ can be used on these cars. IE the pistons are NLA - but several of the big piston makers have the patterns. Cometic can make the HG, cams can be reground, water pumps can be rebuilt etc etc. It's not a BMW or Volvo, but I honestly have yet to be stumped by needing something that was NLA and I've owned these cars since 1992. What won't be very fun is if you've got very limited financial resourses and you have no mechanical skill - then you should really reconsider 505 Turbo ownership. As for that car, I'd do the best you can to make sure the head was inspected for cracking during the repairs. These cars will also run fine without the intank pump as it's just a lift pump - when they go out the main pump is usually just a lot louder since it's working a lot harder. It should still fire up fine - but like I mentioned - the tachymetric relay is the usual culprit for the pump not running and the car not starting / running. 12V direct to the main pump bypasses the relay and it should fire up. Volvo used the same Tachymetric relay so if you have a good pick and pull you should be able to score one, or you can buy new online. Jump the pins at the connector and you can make it driveable, but I usually just use a 2nd battery with some alligator clips as a quick test since the relay is under the dash near the steering column. The standard checks for any used car apply if you can: Compression test, suspension bushing play, wheel bearing play, all joint etc etc. I would also recommend that you check the front strut perches for rust - they can rust out and the spring will release and usually take out the front tire. Rear trailing arms can rust out depending on where the car lived, and the usual rust areas to check are the dog legs, as well as the trunk to wheel arch seams - check from inside the trunk as well as inside the rear wheel wells. Door skin seams, inside the rear quarters, and the rockers at the wheel openings. Paint on the older cars are well known to fade - so that's just expected. If the car is fairly rust free, and you can get it running, then make sure to test drive it to properly shake it down. 85's have the non-intercooled N9T engine, with an oil cooled turbo, lower compression engine, but it should have the nice sodium filled exhaust valves. Rad hoses are NLA - but easy enough to get around with some ingenuity. 86+ cars had water cooled turbos, and a TMIC with an under hood scoop, and a different front grill that feeds the underhood scoop. I assume since you're posting on GRM a lot that you're somewhat of a car guy, so hopefully this doesn't scare you off. If you do proceed, you can look forward to some amazingly comfortable seats, one of the BEST steering cars you'll ever drive, and a ride that will blow your mind if you can take it on a well known to you rough road. Hit some speed bumps if you can too. 15" rims will also be a must since the 85's came with TRX rims, and those tires are hugely expensive and pretty much a deal killer. I'd still consider them if they still had lots of rubber - I did a two day race school and even with old ass TRX tires - they still kicked some serious ass and held up really really well. I should also mention that the car isn't going to respond well to cranking the boost, and trying to make it a cheap drift car. These cars have a ton of potential, but decent money needs to be spent on supporting mods before they'll make serious and reliable HP. The turbo's also use a proprietary housing - so you can't even turbo swap easily. T3/T4's can be made out of the stock turbo exhaust housing - and I'm pretty sure the 85's used the .48 AR exhaust housing where the newer water cooled turbos used .36 AR housings. Hope that's enough to either talk you out of looking at the car, or provided you enough info for you to comfortably check it out... Keep us posted on how you go. Just remember that you can still pick up good used 505 turbos - so you don't HAVE to buy the first one you check out. I still think they're cool as hell, and you hardly see anyone driving one so there's an exclusivity to them that you just won't get driving another car. BTW: I had a family event to attend today 400+ kms away, drove out this AM in my 89' 505 Turbo, and made the return trip this evening through some really bad winter driving conditions. Car was an absolute dream - and my back feels awesome. Once of the few cars I can do hours and hours in and never have a sore back. My 2000 V70R comes close - but I love the 505's more. The early series 1 seats are supposed to be even comfier. Rabin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanB Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 The seller said the main fuel pump works fine but it wasn't starting since the in-tank pump was bad. If it will still run with just the main pump (I was expecting it would) then there might be more than I want to deal with. I am starting to think that this one might not be right for me. I'm looking for something a little more ready to drive since I am graduating college in a few weeks and I'll be moving and looking for a job. I'm not sure if I'll have a garage or a place to work on a car then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 If you can buy the car as a running driving vehicle and it checks out then it's possible it could still be a "diamond in the rough" that runs great and drives well and just needs cosmetics. $1500 for a non-runner really is much too high. In your circumstance however it would make more sense to get something appliance like (IE Toyota/Mazda/Honda), with good fuel economy and easy to fix. Get set up with a new job, and a place to do stuff - then look for cool cars to tinker with. That car can then be the back up / DD while you get the fun / cool car sorted out. 505 Turbo's are a very cool car, and I have a feeling that you'll always have an eye out for one. Once you're earning a decent living and can afford a decent budget - buy the best one you can afford and you'd be a much happier Peugeot enthusiast for a long time to come instead of begrudgingly trying to restore a neglected car. (Unless you're insane like me and do it anyway) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanB Posted October 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 I am definitely trying to not get an appliance. My current daily driver is a 90 Miata that I swapped in a later turbo engine running on megasquirt. The only reason I am looking for another car is for something to drive in the winter. And I have a bad case of auto ADD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 505 Turbo on winter tires is an AMAZING snow car. All the fun of RWD, but very nicely balanced (51/49), and exceptional fun with that LSD diff. 505 Turbo on MS/stand alone (I chose VEMS) + I'm currently working on ways to modify the stock exhaust housing to use a T25 flange so that I can use a new quick spooling EFR6258 or similar - and I think these cars would really show some impressive power potential. I definitely think the car is worth checking out, but I'd only consider it if was running decent for $1500. One more thing about the 85' Turbos is that they had a flakey ECU and I believe there were some contacts that would break and the car won't start. That's actually why my 85' got parked as I gave up diagnosing it. If found out later about the ECU issues and I've collected 2-3 ECUS since then that were said to be from running cars. If the pumps check out and it still won't fire - I'd put a hefty wager it's the ECU issue. I read of a guy in the UK that disassembled the box and found the issue by sight - but I never bothered to verify. My car needs a LOT of work to make a DD again, so it'll likely end up a parts car - but then again I still may attempt a revival as the body is in exceptionally good shape. Funny to see someone else use the Automotive ADD mental illness... I hope it takes off and becomes a full fledged charity with donations made to afflicted persons with budgetary constraints living with the disease trying to finsh ongoing projects... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanB Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Well I didn't buy this 505 but I will be picking up a Peugeot soon. I just bought a 405 Mi16 on ebay. It was previously owned by Kevin on this forum. I was considering it when he had it for sale before but didn't pursue it. I found it on ebay and decided it was time. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1989-Peugeot-405-Mi-16-Sedan-4-Door-1-9L-/200838256297?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2ec2e496a9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 MUCH better bang for your buck, much better parts availability, fantastic handling, AND it's still a Peugeot so very well done. Welcome to the family. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 BTW - now that you own a 405, my suggestion to you is to search for the grease zerk fitting mod for the rear trailing arm bearings. They have a needle bearing that is often neglected to the point of damaging the housings. Symptom will be the rear wanting to steer itself on rutted roads, but the a good preventative maintenance measure is to drill a lubrication hole and install zirk fittings so you can keep them well lubed. 205's have a similar (same?) design so you should find more info on what to do. (I've read of shops remachining and fitting lubricated sintered bronze bushings for example) Only other thing I can think of is that some of the 405 Mi-16's had dodgey stock fuel line routing which could end in an engine fire. Having never had a 405, those are the only two things I really know to look out for. There is quite an active yahoo e-group called Peugeot-L that would be worth joining as well - more 405 owners there. I've also posted some vendor contacts on the main forum page that have been great assets to the community. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 welcome! there's also a 405m16 forum, not sure where it's run from we also have a facebook group, it's run by fernando (eurotrash/sukhoi on this forum), he's a good guy and crazy like the rest of us. you should drop him a line if you're on facebook (he's the "gatekeeper" for the group), tell him you just got a peugeot and you want to join. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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