Diesel performance

[Bean]

http://www.bankspower.com/Tech_dieselperf.cfm

For all the diesel fans - sounds pretty promising! After sampling that 90 Jetta GLi with the hopped up TDi I'd have to agree. That car would spin the front tires in 3rd gear when the car hit full boost! It would SMOKE the 505 Turbo in any acceleration contest - it wasn't even close. Too bad it sounded as loud as a tractor in the car or I could have bought it. The noise and the rough ride was too much for my wife to forgive as a "family" ar - but I was in love with that power train. It even had a Bora 6-sp in it.

It was that car that got me thinking of seeing if the TDi injection system could somehow be retrofitted to the Pug diesels. I don't have any experience with the motors though - but the guys on the Peugeot-L list said it wasn't feasible... Too bad - a 2.5L Pug TDi hybrid with a big turbo would make for a very fast car....

Rabin

[august]

there was a video a while back at some drag strip with a turbo rx7, against some lifted 4wd TD ford pickup. needless to say, the pickup absolutley schooled the rx7 and the croud went out of hand. the huge trail of black smoke was a little much too! hahahah

I think JunktionFET had some ideas on upgrades for the XD series peugeot TD motors. I wonder how much power they are capable of?

[Peugeottogo]

I sure would like to know myself, what these little diesels can put out. I recently bought a 81 505 TD for daily commuting, and to be able to keep my 89 V6 off the the road, to continue working on restoration. This TD has a noticable difference in power, than the 82 TD I had 12 years ago. This car can easly maintain 75 mph on 6% grades on the highway, not bad for a 283,000 original miles. Ironic, I have a pumped up Ford powerstroke, that really drives like a big block gas motor. I use it to haul my travel trailer and haul my Citroen Ami to shows, otherwise its just a beast to drive everyday. Besides, I'm a Peugeot guy. Jeff

[Guest]

Actually, more power can be exerted from a old-fashioned indirectly-injected diesel engine, than from a TDi. That's because in TDi, the time available for combustion is much shorter than in the normal TD with those pre-combustion chambers. (dunno the real english word, again... )

In Finland, some guys have been able to take 400hp or more from Mercedes-Benz straight-6 3-liter turbodiesel engines, and they have been able to rev those things past 7krpm, just because there is more time available for the combustion. Also, the MB injection pump is not a distributor-type, it is the other type, with individual pistons for each cylinder. If I find the words, I add them here.

[august]

I sure would like to know myself, what these little diesels can put out. I recently bought a 81 505 TD for daily commuting, and to be able to keep my 89 V6 off the the road, to continue working on restoration. This TD has a noticable difference in power, than the 82 TD I had 12 years ago. This car can easly maintain 75 mph on 6% grades on the highway, not bad for a 283,000 original miles. Ironic, I have a pumped up Ford powerstroke, that really drives like a big block gas motor. I use it to haul my travel trailer and haul my Citroen Ami to shows, otherwise its just a beast to drive everyday. Besides, I'm a Peugeot guy. Jeff

...and the 85 (XD3T) is even faster yet. my dad had a 85 TD 5sp when i was a kid that was nice. we were used to the XD2 td's, then the XD3T was like "holy horsepower!".

(xd3t = 76hp if i remember right, )

it would have been cool if they brought over the XD3TE (intercooled) TD engine, i think that put out like 110hp.

[Peugeottogo]

Nice photo August. Hummm, I'm imagining plumbing in a intercooler from the gas version?

[Guest]

I'd prefer some other ic, the one in the turbo is not quite so good. Too small, and too thick.

But with a proper ic, performance gains would be worth the trouble.

Is the Peugeot td engine equipped with a bosch ve- or similar distributor pump? Those are really easy to tune for more performance.

I used to have a VW Golf TD, and with a 15min adjusting the pump and the wastegate, I'd say there was something like 20hp more.

[august]

I'd prefer some other ic, the one in the turbo is not quite so good. Too small, and too thick.

But with a proper ic, performance gains would be worth the trouble.

huh, why dont you like the thick intercooler?

[Guest]

Because ideal ic would have as much area as possible, and be as thin as possible. (without killing the inside airflow of course) That is because the air flowing through the core is heating, and it is hotter and hotter the "deeper" it goes. So it's not so efficient to have a thick core.

I've read that the back half of the ic core does the 1/3 job than the front half.

[Yq397r]

The older peugeot diesel engines in the 505s are not to powerful but what they lack up for in muscle they back up in reliability and longevity. I saw one that had over 900,000 miles on it. My 82' 505 has the turbocharged XD2S 4 cylinder diesel engine. I added a 3" performance exhaust with a magna flow high flow muffler and had the mechanical fuel injection pump rebuilt with a 15% fuel flow increase. I did notice quite a difference in peppiness with those two modifications. But still it is by no means a land rocket. About two years ago I purchased a seperate XD2S, I havn't touched it yet but I'm hoping to remove the top end and have it completely rebuilt and dropped into my 505 sedan. As for performance goes I have very modest goals. I'd like to shoot for about 200 lbs of torque at redline, i'd be very happy if I could muster that out of the timid XD2S.

Any suggestions to acquire that goal would be greatly appreciated. My thoughts were for starters was to construct a cold air intake with a larger K&N cone filter, custom smaller front mount intercooler, rebuilt Garrett turbocharger, manual boost controller, propane injection system, fuel flow increase (done), and 3" exhaust (done).

Modifying a peugeot diesel probably dosn't make much sense because one will never be all that impressive but I really love my car and think the challenge will be a fun goal. Plus it would be all the more unique which makes it so worth while in my eyes.

[JunktionFET]

The XD3T produced a whopping 95bhp at 4150 RPM and 155 lbs/ft of torque at 2000 RPM. This was actually a marked improvement over the XD2S which produced 80bhp at 4150 RPM and 136 lbs/ft of torque at 2000 RPM.

In practice, I don't think the XD3T "feels" much faster than the XD2S though I'm sure it is in a flat out acceleration test. The XD2S always feels like it has a more exciting power band (or, less boring anyway).

The XD2S uses oil jets at the base of the cylinders to keep the piston crowns cool, so it is possible to get more power reliably from the engine. At 2.3 liters, it is certainly capable of more than 80bhp.

The XD3T however takes the cake. In addition to the oil jets, it has an oil gallery located beneath each crown to enhance cooling even more and ensure an even distribution of heat across the piston. Combined with the 2.5 liters of displacement and larger ports, I think the XD3T could be made to produce very impressive power and torque.

When I was experimenting with my XD2S a few years ago, I tweaked the injection pump as high as it would go and disconnected the wastegate. For a moment I got an incredible rush of power, though I didn't leave it this way because the car needs some additional work and I didn't want to push my luck.

Increasing boost pressure alone won't do much with a perfectly calibrated stock injection pump because the boost compensation aneroid on the pump isn't configured (or "mapped") to handle anything higher than stock boost pressure. This can be adjusted though, and a nice jump in power can be had without buying any parts--all you need is some time and some hand tools.

If your injection pump is old and is delivering more fuel than it is supposed to, a little extra boost pressure might actually give you some more power--however the outcome is dependent on how "out of tune" the fuel injection system is.

[Yq397r]

If your injection pump is old and is delivering more fuel than it is supposed to, a little extra boost pressure might actually give you some more power--however the outcome is dependent on how "out of tune" the fuel injection system is.

I just had the Bosch pump rebuilt on my XD2S so it should be like brand new. I had the rebuild shop also increase the fuel flow 15% with thoughts of increasing boost down the road. It runs pretty good with the exception that the fuel injector closest to the firewall keeps fouling out, which is odd because I had all four fuel injectors cleaned and rebuilt at the same time I rebuild the pump. I don't why exactly I havn't tracked it down yet. When all four are working the car runs and drives incredibly. Acceleration is smooth and nice, when the fourth injector is fouled it creates a noticeable amount of black smoke out of the exhaust and is much slower on acceleration. Any thoughts or advice?

[Guest]

Ok so i'm VERY new to peugeot's and have a few questions.

I am more specificly interested in the diesel engine for a swap into my jeep

so what yall are saying is i need to look for a XD3T or the next choice would be XD2S? both are turbo's correct? but neither is intercooled except some versions of the XD3T ?

What years were both of these engines produced and specificly shiped to the USA

Thanks for any info

Higgins

[august]

Ok so i'm VERY new to peugeot's and have a few questions.

I am more specificly interested in the diesel engine for a swap into my jeep

so what yall are saying is i need to look for a XD3T or the next choice would be XD2S? both are turbo's correct? but neither is intercooled except some versions of the XD3T ?

What years were both of these engines produced and specificly shiped to the USA

Thanks for any info

Higgins

yeah, the XD3TE (intercooled) was never brought to the US, but would have been in the 87 505 diesel (if they brought it over) from what i understand.

The XD3T i think was in the 85 505's only, then the XD2S was like 82-84? (not sure about that last one).

Here's a site a friend of mine runs, maybe you've seen it before? http://www.jeep2diesel.org/

[Guest]

The two things in diesel tuning are to get a.) a hell of a lot more fuel to the combustion chamber and b.) a hell of a lot more air also.

This might seem obvious, though.

In my opinion, 15% more fuel flow is not nearly enough. You should adjust the pump so that the exhaust pipe pushes out black smoke, all the way you are accelerating. Then modify turbocharger/add boost to get the air in to burn all that fuel, and you see that the amount of smoke is reduced to the point that only a small puff of smoke comes out just when you floor the pedal.

With a diesel the basic tuning can be made without any special metering equipment. You just look in the rear view mirror to see how it smokes, and the engine thermometer, so that your engine won't boil.

There is no danger of wrecking the engine, as long as you keep your eye on the thermometer.

If there is a temperature issue, then fit a larger IC.

Does the Peugeot engine have a pump like this:

http://www.netikka.net/vepiku/viritys/perussyotto.jpg

If it does, Turn the screw circled in red clockwise. It adds the feeding. You must have the engine runnig.

You'll notice that the idle speed goes up, but you can adjust it by turning the limitter screw circled in blue.

You can also adjust the boost pressure controlled feeding by removing the cap circled in yellow. There is a rod with a conical section, attached to a black diaphgram (a right word? maybe.) In VW you can turn the rod-diaphgram assembly to adjust the angle of the conical section, or you can make a new rod with a steeper angle. Steeper angle -> more fuel under boost.