Detonator LED lights but no code N9TEA

[Skater]

Wow glad to find some Peugeot lovers. I have had 6.

Help.....yellow dash light is coming on at above idle to about 2,000 revs. on warm engine. Ease throttle ( to de-excel switch)and it clears and will resume pulling at same load etc. New det sensor. Good boost, never lights at higher revs, not load related. Lamda? Control box?

Det sensor was open winding before installing new one. Could this take out ECU or vice versa ?

Skater

USA SW 8

[Johnny]

Here's a hot tip for you:

http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=428

[Skater]

Here's a hot tip for you:

http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=428

Thanks Jonny,

I have the engine workshop manual but can't find anything to explain constant "on" then erasure of the light with no code out flashes. I am hope someone has seen this problem too.

Skater

[Bean]

Hi Skater,

My 89 has been giving me a code lately (5.1 - NTC sensor), but the light stays on constantly till idling. Once idling it starts spitting the code out.

Just wanted to make sure you were idling it after getting the light to see if it was blinking at all.

If it's not, then you may indeed want to make sure grounding points and such of the ECU are all nice and clean, as well as the engine to battery grounding points.

Rabin

[Skater]

Hi Skater,

My 89 has been giving me a code lately (5.1 - NTC sensor), but the light stays on constantly till idling. Once idling it starts spitting the code out.

Just wanted to make sure you were idling it after getting the light to see if it was blinking at all.

If it's not, then you may indeed want to make sure grounding points and such of the ECU are all nice and clean, as well as the engine to battery grounding points.

Rabin

Rabin, Thanks for the responce. I was getting codes and am familiar with the way it works. Now I am getting the light but it erases as soon as I cut the throttle thus giving no code out. Car runs petty well. I am not sure I am getting waste gate dump but I watch the gauge and don't punch wide open throttle. I am looking for another ECU in the wanted parts section here.

You can get a new det sensor using the Bosch part number. It is not more than 50 bucks.

Skater

[Bean]

OK - just making sure.

I suggested the grounding issue since poor grounds can cause all sorts of wonky behavior with power backfeeding circuits and all sorts of crazyness. 9/10 times it's something electrical with these cars - so I figured there was a slim chance the light was going on for another reason rather than the ECU doing it.

Another thing to try might be to pull the neg cable, apply the brakes to ensure any stored energy in the system is discharged, then hook it back up. That should reset the ECU and it can start from scratch. Worth a shot...

Rabin

[Skater]

Any other ideas folks? LED only comes on on light load at normal engine temps. RPM's are between 1000 and 2000. If throttle is opened and accelerating LED stays on until slacking the throttle. Then light goes out. Returning to the same accelerating load is fine with no further lighting. Has the lamda sensor got anything to do with this?

Skater

[Bean]

Maybe try unplugging the knock sensor and the O2 sensor one at a time and see if that stops the light. If you can isolate to one or the other you'll be golden.

Seems odd for sure - no other ideas that could cause that unless there's something wonky in the instrument cluster itself.

Rabin

[Skater]

Maybe try unplugging the knock sensor and the O2 sensor one at a time and see if that stops the light. If you can isolate to one or the other you'll be golden.

Seems odd for sure - no other ideas that could cause that unless there's something wonky in the instrument cluster itself.

Rabin

No change in several months. Knock sensor was replaced but I did note ohms reading was higher than the call out in the manual. Same part number on the new sensor as one that was defective (open circuit). but not the part number in the manual. LED never lights when below operating temp.

Can't be wiring as is only related to acceleration in fixed rpm range. Bad ECU?

skater

[Bean]

Have you tried the oxygen sensor?

The car should be open loop till it reaches operating temp, then it goes closed loop and uses the O2 sensor IIRC. So a good guess would be the O2 sensor throws a code once it goes into closed loop mode.

It'd be worth testing what signal is generated to at least rule it out. (procedure in the FSM)

I plan on installing a 4-wire heated O2 sensor on the 89' this summer to see if that helps start ups. I'd do it now - but I still need to do a whack of work on my garage!

Rabin

[Skater]

Have you tried the oxygen sensor?

The car should be open loop till it reaches operating temp, then it goes closed loop and uses the O2 sensor IIRC. So a good guess would be the O2 sensor throws a code once it goes into closed loop mode.

It'd be worth testing what signal is generated to at least rule it out. (procedure in the FSM)

I plan on installing a 4-wire heated O2 sensor on the 89' this summer to see if that helps start ups. I'd do it now - but I still need to do a whack of work on my garage!

Rabin

Do you think un-plugging the O2 sensor will prove the fault? The thing is that if the LED is on while accelerating I can let up to idle position and hit it right back to heavy load and the LED is out. Qu'est-ce que c'est FSM? I have the engine and electrical shop books.

Source for the 4 wire? She's an 89.

skater

[bill]

I have been using Bosch 13950 Universal O2 (three wire) for replacements. I think it is for a '88 Ford Bronco 302. It looks the same, and I have had good success with them.

I remember getting a new Bosch 02 sensor with the proper Peugeot pigtail in like '98. At the time, I wasn't online, and I remember paying a little over $150 for a Peugeot-boxed Bosch. If you shop right, you might be able to get the 13950 for $50 or less.

If you haven't done it already, I would clean EVERY electrical connection in the engine bay related to fuel/ignition. Considering the age, it's due if it has never been done.

I use an uber-thin file that I made on the grinder for the females. The rest you know.

Have fun with those pesky little wire clips. I use a really small screwdriver, reading glasses, and patience. They can be a royal pain.

Good luck,

Bill

Do you think un-plugging the O2 sensor will prove the fault? The thing is that if the LED is on while accelerating I can let up to idle position and hit it right back to heavy load and the LED is out. Qu'est-ce que c'est FSM? I have the engine and electrical shop books.

Source for the 4 wire? She's an 89.

skater

[Skater]

I have been using Bosch 13950 Universal O2 (three wire) for replacements. I think it is for a '88 Ford Bronco 302. It looks the same, and I have had good success with them.

I remember getting a new Bosch 02 sensor with the proper Peugeot pigtail in like '98. At the time, I wasn't online, and I remember paying a little over $150 for a Peugeot-boxed Bosch. If you shop right, you might be able to get the 13950 for $50 or less.

If you haven't done it already, I would clean EVERY electrical connection in the engine bay related to fuel/ignition. Considering the age, it's due if it has never been done.

I use an uber-thin file that I made on the grinder for the females. The rest you know.

Have fun with those pesky little wire clips. I use a really small screwdriver, reading glasses, and patience. They can be a royal pain.

Good luck,

Bill

Bill, How do you wire the three wire to the 4 wire cable? I have never found info on this.

This car is clean and I have inspected and un-plugged and re-plugged every connector. I suppose the only part not changed is the O2 sensor. Makes sense to change it.

Skater

[Bean]

Skater - I mentioned 4-wire as one that I was going to wire in, it's not factory. Factory should be a three wire - so the one Bill mentioned is a drop in replacement.

4-wire O2 sensors have a pre-heater that heats the element up quicker and allows the sensor to start operating quicker - which then allows the engine better feedback from the unit. To install it you have to put in another relay to run the heater circuit.

BTW - when you pull apart connectors, a shot of electrical cleaner and some dielectic grease once it's dry is also a good step to make sure all is good. I also re-crimp the female connectors so that they bite the spade connector once re-assembled.

FSM = Factory Service Manual

Rabin

[Skater]

I am wrong, it is a three wire set up. Blue plug has a black wire. The other has two white wires. I will cahnge it at once. Will the wire colors line up?

Skater

Skater - I mentioned 4-wire as one that I was going to wire in, it's not factory. Factory should be a three wire - so the one Bill mentioned is a drop in replacement.

4-wire O2 sensors have a pre-heater that heats the element up quicker and allows the sensor to start operating quicker - which then allows the engine better feedback from the unit. To install it you have to put in another relay to run the heater circuit.

BTW - when you pull apart connectors, a shot of electrical cleaner and some dielectic grease once it's dry is also a good step to make sure all is good. I also re-crimp the female connectors so that they bite the spade connector once re-assembled.

FSM = Factory Service Manual

Rabin

[Skater]

UPDATE:

Changed the O2 sensor. Smoother idle and perhaps all around....still the LED faults but can be erased by letting off and then hitting it again. Generally runs well. Black tape on the LED?

Skater

[N9TE]

No. Don't give up. Take you time. One weekend, go at one series of connections, next weekend go at another series.

There IS a fault, problem is the LED error codes are pretty lame.

All sensors (at water tank), potentiometer, primary ignition (distributor, ignitor), all associated harnesses.

After you have done every connection, go at the ECUs (there are two - one for ignition one for fuel) and *carefully* clean connections there.

Also, hit the ground trees (two in front by headlight buckets, two attached to steering column.

Then there's the battery ground.

Have fun, you'll be an expert by the time you're done.

[Skater]

Mr Moderator,

Thanks for the reply.

This is a N9TEA I have had codes that stay up and can be read when at idle, this one goes away. It only comes on under light aceleration between 1K and 2K and seems not to effect the engine. Det sensor is new too. Ill do more but it is baffeling.

Skater

No. Don't give up. Take you time. One weekend, go at one series of connections, next weekend go at another series.

There IS a fault, problem is the LED error codes are pretty lame.

All sensors (at water tank), potentiometer, primary ignition (distributor, ignitor), all associated harnesses.

After you have done every connection, go at the ECUs (there are two - one for ignition one for fuel) and *carefully* clean connections there.

Also, hit the ground trees (two in front by headlight buckets, two attached to steering column.

Then there's the battery ground.

Have fun, you'll be an expert by the time you're done.

[Bean]

Any luck on this Skater?

After re-reading this I'm thinking it has to be a knock light, these won't get stored I'm quite sure and could easily be the cause of this issue.

I know you replaced the sensor, but try unbolting it all together and just zip tie it somewhere else to see if the led stops lighting up.

Worth a try anyway.

Rabin

BTW: I'm still hunting for a fix for the 5.1 error code (NTC), and I'm going to do the main harness connectors by the brake resevoir to see if I can find any issues in there.

[JunktionFET]

I've seen the LED come on like described in this thread, and I knew the reason (or the solution anyway), but I swear I've been away from these cars for so long that I've forgotten. Give me some time to try to remember.

BTW: I'm still hunting for a fix for the 5.1 error code (NTC), and I'm going to do the main harness connectors by the brake resevoir to see if I can find any issues in there.

You have an intermittent 5.1 or does it come up immediately? I remember seeing intermittent 5.1s and it was eventually solved by cleaning grounds and connectors. Since the coolant temp sensor on the N9TEA is different from the other N9Ts (and in fact most L-Jet cars in general) in that it has two NTC thermistors, the ignition side can go "open" but the car will still run if the FI side continues to function.

[Bean]

My 5.1 is intermittent, but it occures pretty much every time I drive it. I'll have to take a look at re-doing the grounds, as well as making sure the wiring harness connectors all the way back are also in good shape.

When I did the t-stat (using an OEM Nissan one) I pulled the coolant tank off, and put on a bead blasted spare one - then transferred the sensors over to it after brass wire wheeling them on the bench grinder. I also cleaned all the connectors for each sensor and used dielectric grease - so pretty sure there's no issues at the tank itself.

I'm also pretty sure August installed a new NTC sensor not to long before I bought the car (e-mailed to verify) - so it pretty much has to be grounds or wiring related I'm thinking.

Only other slight concern is that even with the new t-stat the coolant temp doesn't indicate the engine is getting warm - only up to the 1/3 mark. Heater blows very hot though, and when I used the same t-stat in my other 505 turbo it was rock steady and made a huge improvement in keeping the temp nice and steady compared to the t-stat it replaced.

Oh the joys of electrical gremlins!

Rabin

[Skater]

Up-date:

I was getting a 2.3 code as well as the light on/ no code thing and decided to read the pin out at the box.

Det sensor was open even though it was new 1000 miles ago. I have scrapped the ECU in favor of an 88. This involved removing the electro valve, re-arrange the waste gate plumbing and swapping the air mass meter, and changing the det sensor . It is amazingly better. Not super boost but I am going to check that. Low end torque is great and the boost shows about 25 percent on the dash gauge. I don't get the over boost I remember. Rather a slow steady pull. The waste gate actuator blew out and I changed it some time ago, could it be too soft?

I received a replacement 89 SW8 ignition ECU in the mail today. I plan to put it all back to stock soon. I feel I am on the right track.

JunktionFET:

The NTC sensor is split into two in the same housing. One side is for the ignition box the other is for the injection box. I think there is a dedicated sender for the dash temp.

Skater

[JunktionFET]

JunktionFET:

The NTC sensor is split into two in the same housing. One side is for the ignition box the other is for the injection box. I think there is a dedicated sender for the dash temp.

Skater

Si, there are two NTC thermistors within the physical sensor body. And yes, the sensor for the gauge is entirely separate though it is one of the four that is screwed into the thermostat housing.

[Bean]

Just to confirm - there's just the two contacts in this sensor correct?

I haven't checked my sensor on my car, and the manuals aren't handy so I can't confirm the NTC sensor needed. Did some searching and found this bosch part# 0 280 130 032. This seems to be used on the Volvo's of the same era, as well as a Ferrari Testarossa of all things...

Can anyone confirm this is the number needed?

I'm pretty sure my issue is in the harness, or a connection or ground issue. August confirmed he replaced the sensor in 06', but I may just source a new sensor just to be sure.

Rabin

[JunktionFET]

Just to confirm - there's just the two contacts in this sensor correct?

I haven't checked my sensor on my car, and the manuals aren't handy so I can't confirm the NTC sensor needed. Did some searching and found this bosch part# 0 280 130 032. This seems to be used on the Volvo's of the same era, as well as a Ferrari Testarossa of all things...

Can anyone confirm this is the number needed?

I'm pretty sure my issue is in the harness, or a connection or ground issue. August confirmed he replaced the sensor in 06', but I may just source a new sensor just to be sure.

Rabin

I know this is entirely unhelpful, but I used to know the part number for the N9T/N9TE vs N9TEA sensors... however it escapes me at the moment. Anyway, yes there are still only two terminals. On the N9T and N9TE, the injection ECU uses both--resistance across the terminals. On the N9TEA, the injection ECU uses one of the terminals and the ignition ECU uses the other... Both are coupled to ground through the sensor body.

I suppose one quick and dirty way to tell if you have the right one is to measure across the terminals with a hot engine. Since the thermistors have a common connection point (ground), if you see a reading that is double what you should see, then you likely have the right sensor. In other words, if it's supposed to be 250 ohms (I think that's right for normal operating temp), and you see 500 ohms or more across the terminals, you're good. However if you see 300 or less, you probably have the wrong sensor in there, that or it's out of spec (which may cause a problem anyway).