FIAT?

[N9TE]

I vote Dumbass. M-B bled for Chrysler when they had a market for their big iron. With the recession and people still skittish about potential $4+ gas coming back, Government mandates, 55% union control, they're worse than toxic. They're certain death for any "partner" (read "chump").

Other than a slice of their dealer network, Chrysler offers nothing for FIAT except a financial black hole.

I'd LOVE to see hot Italian cars come back, but this just ain't gonna happen.

If they want a dealer network, buy it from Chapter 11/7. Or buy Mitsubishi N/A. But this?!

What say you?

[Pugsley]

I vote Dumbass. M-B bled for Chrysler when they had a market for their big iron. With the recession and people still skittish about potential $4+ gas coming back, Government mandates, 55% union control, they're worse than toxic. They're certain death for any "partner" (read "chump").

Other than a slice of their dealer network, Chrysler offers nothing for FIAT except a financial black hole.

I'd LOVE to see hot Italian cars come back, but this just ain't gonna happen.

If they want a dealer network, buy it from Chapter 11/7. Or buy Mitsubishi N/A. But this?!

What say you?

Now that we've helped bail out the car makers, who the hells going to buy the cars ?

People are afraid to spend now. I trade stock for a living, and it's been very sporadic

lately.

However, Fiat did rescue Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, and Lancia. They're still here.

[Pugsley]

I'll add that the whole thing is a bigger mess since Obama and his task force have fired the dealerships. So much for Obama creating new jobs. But he sure knows how to inter fear with the private industry in which our government has absolutely no business sticking their noses in ( http://adage.com/article?article_id=136552)

Obama has ignored CONTRACTUAL law by taking the company away from the bondholders and stock holders and gave a whopping 55 % to the UAW and kept 39 % for themselves.

Thank you Obama for the way you're handling Chrysler it's unconstitutional, and so much for a legally binding contract

Hopefully Fiat can save Chrysler from socialism.

[Bean]

But he sure knows how to inter fear with the private industry in which our government has absolutely no business sticking their noses in ( http://adage.com/article?article_id=136552)

Thank you Obama for the way you're handling Chrysler it's unconstitutional, and so much for a legally binding contract

Hopefully Fiat can save Chrysler from socialism.

I FULLY agree. Gov't should have stayed out and the big three left to their own devices. Sure there would have been MASSIVE job losses and they likely wouldn't be around - but that's how a free market capitalist market works...

Oh wait... That's not what you meant is it? Be careful what you wish for...

As for the link of them cutting the advertising budget - well done. $134 M isn't going to a damn thing except for fill the advertising companies pockets and hopefully repay the 58.1 M they're already owed by Chrysler.

I don't normally get into these discussions, but what were the options? Clearly the business failed, and failed hard. It's sink or swim, and while what was done may not appear to have been the "right" way, no one speaking about options had 100% of the info they had when they made the decision.

Hopefully the deal with Fiat FORCES the US to accept much better smaller cars out of Europe and the whole debacle can get pulled out of the gutter.

I do think on principle that that the car makers should have been left to fail. Money spent bailing them out could have been used to FIX the industry instead of help limp it along. Easy saying that - but when familys and lively hoods are at stake - gov't needs to look out for the people first.

Rabin

[nick@nite]

Italian car coperates are arrogant assholes.... They'll screw it up for sure.

[Pugsley]

Italian car coperates are arrogant assholes.... They'll screw it up for sure.

How so ? Worse then Obamas team ?

Obamas handling Chryslers bankruptcy is a major mistake and most importantly is unconstitutional. The correct way to handle this would have been for Chrysler to go through normal bankruptcy proceedings. They probably would not have gone under by doing that.Someone would have stepped in and reinvested and done a major reconstruction, similar as to what happened between 1979-1981 and made Chrysler a great car company again.

However, Obama would not allow it, because a bankruptcy judge might have thrown out the union contracts which are one of the car companies biggest problems (cost)

This boils down to Obamas socialist methods of redistributing wealth.

For the those that don't know normal bankruptcy is when a company is not into the till of the public treasury, in which contractual laws are adhered to, as well as bankruptcy laws. A judge is then appointed to oversee the proceedings and makes his decisions based on bankruptcy and CONTRACTUAL law. A bankruptcy proceeding where the president of the United States oversees the proceedings and IGNORES CONTRACTUAL LAW is abosolutely NOT NORMAL, and unprecedented.

The recent stock market bright spot will evaporate as the unemployment lines continue to increase in the next few years. Right now the housing market is dead and will continue to be for the next few years.

I'm certainly no Bush supporter, but this nation put itself in a much deeper hole by electing Obama, and it's going to cost us dearly when its payback time for the trillions of dollars he's spent so carelessly.

[Bean]

Yup - I have to agree that spending even MORE money to get out of the economic slump is a terrible idea. Printing records amounts of money is an even WORSE idea.

There was a documentary that followed the "plan" and in 10 years the US national debt was going to be an absurd 23 trillion dollars.

It's a tough call, but I also agree that the regular bancruptcy process should have been let to run it's course - but that would have likely caused, or triggered an even worse crisis if had 2 and possibly 3 national institutions in the US went bancrupt.

It's all very very messy, and there's always going to be flaws with any plan, but the one universal truth is that it's not going to get better before it gets a LOT worse. All this spending is just putting it off and slowing it down, but in a lot of ways its just wasted money.

Makes more sense to let it run it's course and then fund the restructuring of the industry. Helping it limp along and hoping it changes is going to be expensive and drawn out. Hopefully they do pull it off though - hate to see what would happen if it still goes down in flames after billions spent trying to save the industry.

Rabin

[Pugsley]

Yup - I have to agree that spending even MORE money to get out of the economic slump is a terrible idea. Printing records amounts of money is an even WORSE idea.

There was a documentary that followed the "plan" and in 10 years the US national debt was going to be an absurd 23 trillion dollars.

It's a tough call, but I also agree that the regular bancruptcy process should have been let to run it's course - but that would have likely caused, or triggered an even worse crisis if had 2 and possibly 3 national institutions in the US went bancrupt.

It's all very very messy, and there's always going to be flaws with any plan, but the one universal truth is that it's not going to get better before it gets a LOT worse. All this spending is just putting it off and slowing it down, but in a lot of ways its just wasted money.

Makes more sense to let it run it's course and then fund the restructuring of the industry. Helping it limp along and hoping it changes is going to be expensive and drawn out. Hopefully they do pull it off though - hate to see what would happen if it still goes down in flames after billions spent trying to save the industry.

Rabin

Ive wondered how Obama supporters think that spending even more money recklessly will get us out of the hole we're in when it was wreckless spending that got us here in the first place

And printing more money will cause inflation. Anyone who's ever taken a basic economics 101 class and received a grade D - or higher knows that.

[Kevin]

chrysler and the other american automakers had it pretty good.

a foreign automaker has to pretty much build a model specifically for the US... so that cuts out competition.

they sold suv's with huge profit margins, and they still fucked it up.

we need to go back to the way corporations used to have to behave. they had to pay taxes, had to treat their employees fairly and every 50 years they had to dissolve, sell off assets and if they wanted to, re-incorporate.

they all deserve to go to hell imo

all these cries of socialism please, such BS

anything that isn't strict Laissez-faire capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire) or direct fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) in this country gets called socialist and welfare state. i'm so fucking sick of it.

i am 23 years old and this reganomics nonsense for the past 30 years has screwed up any future i might have.

whine and bitch about obama all you want. is he perfect? hell no but it beats any alternative at the moment.

... having said that, any diversification of the American auto market is welcome. Let Fiat sell cars here, I'd check them out. I'll probably end up buying another VW but still.

[N9TE]

Fiat is a lamb going to the slaughter.

The union will control 55% of the company. That's what Obama wanted. CardCheck is next.

You ever pay union dues and have union bosses with big guts show up once a month and flirt with the hotties and leave in their new cars? I have. I've been ass deep in a union and it's the most FUBAR thing you can imagine. I was involved in recruitment, spying, planning. etc. Hell, I even picketed companies I didn't even work at. Worked as a Longshoreman for a couple of weeks. Let me tell you - that was some cake "work". Unions are the most corrupt thing this side of a Chicago conversion of Mayors.

Gettlefinger running a car company?!

They will build shitty (no, shittier cars) and when they get their asses handed to them in the marketplace, Mr. O will "have their back" and saddle the other automakers with the same hindrances that festering corpse Chrysler has.

This exact plan is going to happen to GM in 47 days.

Ford, even though they had the good sense to avoid Government money is in the cross hairs.

Then, they'll work on the Japanese. The Germans don't sell enough cars to matter.

GM and Chrysler should have re-organized under standard-issue bankruptcy. They could have gotten their "union problem" in line once and for all. If they still couldn't handle it, there's always chapter 7 and liquidation. Assets are sold and allocated to debtors. You think someone who ships pallets of bolts, glass and rubber to Chrysler should get freakin' 20 cents on the dollar?! Good luck getting credit now. They'll have to pay for their stuff in cash, prepaid, freight collect. Anybody would be a moron to sell to them on any other condition.

This IS socialism. I don't care if you're sick of it. It's a fact. Government firing executives. Government having direct voting shares. Government dictating industry direction. Government telling you what type of products to make.

23 years old! You couldn't know a free market if it kicked you in the ass! You were THREE years old when Reagan was President. You don't know jack.

23. Jesus, I hope your a freaking genius or are already rich or really pretty. You'll need some better-than-average skill to make it for the next four years. I don't envy ANY 23 year old.

[Pugsley]

chrysler and the other american automakers had it pretty good.

a foreign automaker has to pretty much build a model specifically for the US... so that cuts out competition.

they sold suv's with huge profit margins, and they still fucked it up.

we need to go back to the way corporations used to have to behave. they had to pay taxes, had to treat their employees fairly and every 50 years they had to dissolve, sell off assets and if they wanted to, re-incorporate.

they all deserve to go to hell imo

all these cries of socialism please, such BS

anything that isn't strict Laissez-faire capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laissez-faire) or direct fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism) in this country gets called socialist and welfare state. i'm so fucking sick of it.

i am 23 years old and this reganomics nonsense for the past 30 years has screwed up any future i might have.

whine and bitch about obama all you want. is he perfect? hell no but it beats any alternative at the moment.

... having said that, any diversification of the American auto market is welcome. Let Fiat sell cars here, I'd check them out. I'll probably end up buying another VW but still.

First off, why such contempt for bondholders ? And please describe why Obama has the right to violate contractual law and cheat me and other shareholders out money I worked hard for and invested ? And what corporations do you speak of that are not paying their taxes ? I'm curious about these assertions you're making.

I have no problem with Fiat taking over, although I seriously doubt if you'll ever see their cars sold here again.

And if you're up to it please describe how Reganomics is hurting your career.

[Pugsley]

Fiat is a lamb going to the slaughter.

The union will control 55% of the company. That's what Obama wanted. CardCheck is next.

You ever pay union dues and have union bosses with big guts show up once a month and flirt with the hotties and leave in their new cars? I have. I've been ass deep in a union and it's the most FUBAR thing you can imagine. I was involved in recruitment, spying, planning. etc. Hell, I even picketed companies I didn't even work at. Worked as a Longshoreman for a couple of weeks. Let me tell you - that was some cake "work". Unions are the most corrupt thing this side of a Chicago conversion of Mayors.

Gettlefinger running a car company?!

They will build shitty (no, shittier cars) and when they get their asses handed to them in the marketplace, Mr. O will "have their back" and saddle the other automakers with the same hindrances that festering corpse Chrysler has.

This exact plan is going to happen to GM in 47 days.

Ford, even though they had the good sense to avoid Government money is in the cross hairs.

Then, they'll work on the Japanese. The Germans don't sell enough cars to matter.

GM and Chrysler should have re-organized under standard-issue bankruptcy. They could have gotten their "union problem" in line once and for all. If they still couldn't handle it, there's always chapter 7 and liquidation. Assets are sold and allocated to debtors. You think someone who ships pallets of bolts, glass and rubber to Chrysler should get freakin' 20 cents on the dollar?! Good luck getting credit now. They'll have to pay for their stuff in cash, prepaid, freight collect. Anybody would be a moron to sell to them on any other condition.

This IS socialism. I don't care if you're sick of it. It's a fact. Government firing executives. Government having direct voting shares. Government dictating industry direction. Government telling you what type of products to make.

23 years old! You couldn't know a free market if it kicked you in the ass! You were THREE years old when Reagan was President. You don't know jack.

23. Jesus, I hope your a freaking genius or are already rich or really pretty. You'll need some better-than-average skill to make it for the next four years. I don't envy ANY 23 year old.

The bailout has one serious problem: If the unions are what ultimately what hurt the production costs and put them in the shape they're in now, aren't they going to probably have a repeat again unless they get rid of the unions ?

As for the Kevin guy who made all these assertions, still waiting for you to back up your claims. And you gripe the American car companies made SUV's, yet you seem to have missed the fact that Toyota, Nissan, Mazda, Mercedes, VW, and even Porsche did the same thing. You don't think they produced SUV's because that's what the buying public wanted do you ?

[Pugsley]

The house has said yes, after all they need a return on their investment.

$4500 for any trade that runs and drives as long as it has been on the road for the past year. They have set 4 billion set aside to pay for the bill. Even more dumb spending.

"The auto industry is going through a tremendous restructuring," said Rep. Sander Levin, D-Royal Oak. "If there is not increased demand, that restructuring cannot succeed."

There going to force the sale of the government autos on us. If anyone here has been paying attention they are going to try to push this bill even further.

Our current administration is not only clueless, but is well on it's way towards bankrupting this country. A new car is one of the worst investments you can make.

More socialism guys, and you can bet they would love to crush your old Peugeots because in their eyes they are clunkers.