Johnny Posted April 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 The smaller pipe is for the fuel return line from the engine, so it's very important. :-) I think the pipes are welded, so you could try to replace the broken pipe or better yet, make a new flange and pipes from stainless steel. These two linked pictures are from another Finnish 505 hobbyist: http://fatali.servebeer.com/~mrcrossfire/P...umpun_runko.jpg http://fatali.servebeer.com/~mrcrossfire/P...mpun_runko2.jpg I had almost the same problem as you (I broke the larger pipe ;-D) but I managed to buy an used "pump holder" that was in reasonable good condition. It wasn't from 505 Turbo (propably from a GTI), so the pipes were pointing to slightly different direction than before but it was still usable. Also the "mounting depth" was incorrect, so I had to drill some extra holes to modify it. I sandblasted and painted it to make it last longer. BTW, almost the same "pump holder" is also used at least in some 205, 309, 405 and other 505 models. So, if you take your 505 part along and go to a wrecker, you might find some replacements that are a direct fit or require some small modifications... Here are also two pictures of my "new" part (notice the new "Saab" pump). Of course it is, haha. How stupid of me. Hmm, I think I'll try to get a "new" part. I noticed a small hole in the larger pipe. I assume you have also read this: Rear Disc Brake Caliper Repair But it looks like your brake caliper might be beyond repair. :-( I have read your article, its great! I have bought a used one that seems repairable, it has some small dents on the piston but I think that it will be fine. Where do you get that epoxi-paint you used? Is it available in aerosol-cans? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted April 15, 2007 Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 Where do you get that epoxi-paint you used? Is it available in aerosol-cans? This is some *very* old two component paint, called "Amerlock 400"... It's dated 28.06.1993, but still usable because the harder is in a separate container. Got it from my father's workplace many years ago. It's manufactured by a Finnish company called Nor-Maali (Some Finnish-English dictionary: "normaali" = normal, "maali" = paint, hah ;-D). They make some "hard core" industrial paints. This old Amerlock 400 is probably manufactured under licence from another manufacturer Ameron Coatings: http://www.ameroncoatings.com/global/produ...ies&CatID=2 http://www.ameroncoatings.com/usa/products...&B_A400.pdf It can be used as both primer and surface paint. However, I've usually used some rost preventive paint (such as etching primers) as a primer, then applied Amerlock 400 and in visible areas I've also used some automotive paint as top surface. Luckily I still have some paint left, so I don't have to look for newer alternatives just yet. But I would imagine that epoxy paints are available from many manufacturers. But probably not in spray bottles. I've mostly sprayed it with a paint gun (with some thinner) and sometimes used a brush. You could ask from some local paint store what paint they can recommend. Also some local "industrial painting shop" could sell you small amount of some good paint. There are propably even better paints but I've found this one very good for painting car parts that are exposed to salt water in the winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 15, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 15, 2007 OK! Thanks a bunch for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted April 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2007 I've put together the caliper now. I had some problems with fitting the dustseals, they just wouldn't stay when I had put them in place! First I thought that it was the grease that caused it to slip, but that wasn't the case. When I broke one of the seals and took a look at the old seal I noticed that they weren't identical. The old one had a groove in which the ring seated in, and the new one didn't. Luckily the old dustseal was still usable so I washed it and re-used it. The brand of the sealing-kit was Budweg, so look out for those! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted July 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2007 The caliper is now installed, with a new brake-line. I thought that I'd replace the brakefluid, but when I tried to pump out some brakefluid through the air-nipple, no fluid came out, and the pedal was really hard (like when braking normally without power-assistance). There was fluid coming out of the nipples in the front calipers though, so I thought that there maybe was a 2-piston setup, and that the piston for the rear calipers was jammed, so I removed the whole brakecylinder + accumulator. It was quite a pain in the ass because I had to remove the dash, the metal beam that supports it and the steering column to get access to the nuts. It took me a good 2 h.... Anyway, I found out that there was no front/rear cylinder setup (which I of course should have checked before tearing up the interior ) but when I already had the cylinder in my hand, I might as well check the condition of it. Said and done, I took it apart and was happily suprised that everything was in excellent condition! Because the cylinder is made of aluminum there was no rust, the cylinderwalls and piston showed no sign of wear, and the seals looked like new! There are some o-rings in the assembly, which looked fine too but I'll replace them anyway, because they're cheap. It actually feels like someone made an effort to make this rust-proof and long lasting. It could explain why the nuts to the brake master were so hard to access, they were never ment to be removed. I took some pictures of the parts in the cylinder after cleaning them: I can take measurements of the internal components if anyone wants it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted July 7, 2007 Report Share Posted July 7, 2007 Sounds like a hard work but also a great way to get to know your car better. ;-) In case you haven't noticed, there's an ABS brakes section in the workshop manual too: 505 Workshop Manual, |-> AM 1986, Ref. 3512 GB, third supplement: 08: Brakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted July 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I divided this post into two sections because it was so long. ^^ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Pump I went to the wrecking yard and asked how much they would charge for the fuelpump-armature, and they said something like 25$ (even after haggleling), so I said no and decided to fix the old one. The nipples are from hydraulic hoses and I had them welded them onto the top plate after removing the old pipes. It looks like this: They are alot thicker than the original pipes, and should take a loooong while before getting a rusthole there. The little plastic thing that holds the cables didn't fit anymore, and if I had ground away the material to fit it, there would be no weld left so I took new cables and poured epoxi-glue to make it air/gas-thight. At least I hope it is.... Also I made a new filter in brass for the pump, since the old one was broken. I made it double, just like the original and soldered the ends together. Looks like this: And an overview picture I will let the glue harden for a few days and then paint it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Brakes I have finally located the problem with the brakes! It's this little compensator in the rear that doesn't work as it's supposed to... I have taken it apart, and strangely it looks ok inside, no rust or anything... If I can't figure out what's wrong with it I'll probably cut the piston in tho pieces and weld one piece together with the block. This way I'll just work as a 3-way connector, but it will still look stock. (causing no problems at inspection) If the material in the piston isn't weldable then I'll just machine a piece that'll fit. I know that I'll get more braking power to the rear which possibly could make the rear brakes lock before the front, hence the compensator in the first place. But in that case I still have the ABS-system and I've talked to people who have done similar things to their cars and had no problems, even in winter. What do you guys think? Also, the long brakeline under the car broke then I removed the compensator and when I'm replacing it, I might as well replace the rest of the braking lines to the rear and hoses. I will use plain copper-tubes, it's not as resistant to corrosion as the copper-nickel ones, but I got this so cheap (about 13€ for 7.6m) so I'll use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted July 24, 2007 Report Share Posted July 24, 2007 I have finally located the problem with the brakes! It's this little compensator in the rear that doesn't work as it's supposed to... I have taken it apart, and strangely it looks ok inside, no rust or anything... If I can't figure out what's wrong with it I'll probably cut the piston in tho pieces and weld one piece together with the block. This way I'll just work as a 3-way connector, but it will still look stock. (causing no problems at inspection) If the material in the piston isn't weldable then I'll just machine a piece that'll fit. I know that I'll get more braking power to the rear which possibly could make the rear brakes lock before the front, hence the compensator in the first place. But in that case I still have the ABS-system and I've talked to people who have done similar things to their cars and had no problems, even in winter. What do you guys think? The load sensing rear brake compesator is there for a good reason and according to my knowledge is very important... In Finland, they have now inspected it every time in the annual inspection. A brand new compensator costs 94 Euros in a local car parts dealer, so it's not that expensive considering that it is an important part of the braking system. It should also be possible find a good one from a wrecking yard. You won't probably notice much difference when driving and braking normally but in a real emergency situation when braking hard, locking the rear wheels could be fatal. Are you sure that you have all parts of the compensator system in place and that the compensator is also correctly adjusted? There's a factory procedure for adjusting it... I can send those workshop manual pages for you if needed. Here's an attached picture of the compensator from the Haynes manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted July 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2007 I knew I would get that answer. I have tried to adjust it as far as it would go, but there was no fluid at all coming to the rear calipers. (yes, I know the procedure to vent the brakes) I couldn't find anything odd when I took it apart though... no rust or anything. A guy I have talked to has really tested his similar configuration in the winter, on ice, in turns, and the brakes always locks at the front first. The car he has is an audi 100 btw. Don't think that I won't test this before I would even use the car on a regular basis, if it really locks the rear brakes before the front when braking really hard then I'll of course replace the compensator with a healthy one. Have you had any real-life experiences of such modifications? I don't question the purpose of the compensator, or your knowledge, I'm just curious. How do they inspect it in Finland? My modification is undetectable, if they don't take it apart, which they don't do in Sweden. I just removed the ball and spring that blocks the path, so the piston can still move in and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 I got a new hose for one of the rear brakes today. The guy who made it for me didn't have fittings for two hoses so he made one and I'll get the other one later this week hopefully. Picture of the old and the new one: The hose is braided teflon with a protective layer of plastic. I will probably get hoses of the same type for the front brakes in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted August 2, 2007 Report Share Posted August 2, 2007 Have you had any real-life experiences of such modifications? I don't question the purpose of the compensator, or your knowledge, I'm just curious. No, I haven't tried that myself. :-\ Just from what I've read and heard... How do they inspect it in Finland? My modification is undetectable, if they don't take it apart, which they don't do in Sweden. I just removed the ball and spring that blocks the path, so the piston can still move in and out. Usually they just checks that it moves (has not been rusted etc.) and I think they can also figure out something about the braking forces (balance) at the dynamometer test. I don't know, but I think the car inspection system is quite similar in Finland and Sweden (and other Scandinavian countries). BTW, nice brake hose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 As far as i know, they can't figure anything out by the dyno-test if they don't measure the force on the pedal. Well, well... I have been repairing quite much of rust in the trunk, the left "wheel-house" (english word for that please?) and the left "tub" (please tell me what it's called =)). A new holder for the gas-tank has been made too, and the brake-lines for the rear brakes has been replaced. I will take some pictures of that in the future. I'm thinking about replacing the fuel-lines too, because they were rusty and I'm guessing that they will complain about that on the inspection. I think I'll be using cooper-pipes for that. I've heard people that have had problems with copper in the fuel from the pipes, but I think that was only with race-fuel. Anyone here got any experiences in the subject? I'm also making a simple air/fuel-meter to hook up with the lambda-probe. It's basicly the same as this: but I'm building it myself. I will integrate it into the dash, where the led is now. I'll remove the led, since it's useless now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 I'm kinda stuck... I thought I had found the problem with the brakes, but I had not.... It looks like it's a problem inside the brake-master, because no fluid is coming out of the hole where the brake-pipe tp the rear connects either. So therefore I thought that I had put it back together wrong somehow, and changed the whole brakemaster with the one I bought from Adegnes, but that didn't do the trick either. Does anyone have any idea what could be wrong?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hmmm, I discovered that the ABS-pump doesn't run, I think I've forgotten to put the relay in, I also don't know where I've put it... but shouldn't there come fluid to the rear anyway, without the ABS-pump running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Hi Johnny, Firstly - the english word for the "wheel house" is the Wheel well... Often referred to inner and outter wheel wells depending on where you need to refer... Not sure what you meant by "tub" though. "Tubbing" here means to widen the wheel wells into the car to fit wider wheels... As for the rear brakes - make sure the rear wheels are lifted off the ground or the compensator won't allow fluid to the calipers - you need to bleed the brakes with the suspension compressed. If that's not the problem - I'd check the lines as you should get fluid to all the brakes without an operational pump... If the car has sat a while - you might want to bench bleed the master on the bench... Just get some short lines and run them back into the resevoir - and then pump the master manually with a rod of some sort. This will eliminate the master and ensure it's bled properly. Good luck! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 Thanks Rabin! It's the inner wheel well that I've repaired. With "tub" I meant the lowest part of the rear fender. All brakelines and hoses are new and the to the rear brakes, but I've taken of the brakeline at the valve-block on the master, and no fluid is coming there either. The workshop manual in Toni's site says that you should use the pump for bleeding, but I too think that there should come fluid whithout an operational pump. I don't think that I've put the master together wrong and the spare one doesn't bleed without the pump either so maybe that's the way it's supposed to be?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 3, 2008 Report Share Posted January 3, 2008 The tub you refer to is part of the "rear quarter panel" - so if you fixed the bottom you repaired the bottom of the rear quarter panel... There may be a more specific term in the autobody repair business - but this will get your point across... As for master - I'm pretty sure they should push fluid as well... Are you able to test it on a working car? I don't have an ABS car so I can't be certain. But I have had to bench bleed master cylinders before because of the same situation... I used old lines to go from the master body to the resevoir and then pumped away till no bubbles showed up... Was the only way to get the system primed... Didn't make sense at the time as I didn't think there was a difference bleeding it in the car or out - but having the short lines running back into itself did the trick. Procedures for a lot of cars call for the engine to be running to bleed the system properly - but I've bled other ABS cars like usual with no issues at all. (No idea on the Pug though...) Good luck! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Thanks for the english-lesson! I think I need an automotive dictionary About the brakes: I got the pump running and bled the rear brakes as by the book, and they seem to work like they should. Here comes a little update on what has been done on the car: -New, smaller (about 1,5l) washer resevoir bought and bracket made. -25mm2 cable bought and installed to relocate the battery to the trunk. -All soundproofing on the firewall ripped out -Rear seats, headrests and soundproofing taken out. -No more jack and spare tire -Modified center-consol with gauges for boost, fuelpressure and oilpressure, switches relocated to where the cointray used to be. Total gross weightloss sofar about 45kg. I will post pictures in the future, I have no camera available at the moment. Plans: -Fix handbrake cables -Get it inspected -Fix everything that was wrong at the inspection -FMIC, probably from a Saab 9000t -3" exhaust -Adjustable fuelpressure regulator (mod the OEM one) -Larger injectors -Hook up MS to the injection -Slightly more boost -LSD-diff -Danielson Cam -E85 conversion I hope to get the list above done this summer, but I probably won't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Cool! Looking forward to pictures of the gauges Johnny... I too want to relocate the switches and use that area for gauges... As for the ABS - good to know it works like it should. Can't wait for updates once she's running. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Well Rabin, you brought me the idea of the switches earlier in this thread Here comes some pictures! Center console Old and new washer reservoir Bypass valve Isn't there any way to make spaces in the posts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 LOL! Excellent - Now I know it looks awesome in real life - as well as in my head! What size gauges did you go with? I also noticed 2 are oil pressure gauges - just for show or are you doing something with them? They look like a perfect fit... Are you going to paint the aluminum black for an OEM look or leave it for a custom look? Can you explain what you mean by "spaces in the posts"? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Thank you! The plates are quite sloppy made as I don't have any fancy sheet metal-bender, just a vice and hammer. I'll probably redo them if they annoy me enough, but looks itsn't really what I'm going for. (notice the fancy screw ) Haha, I'm thinking about painting them black actually. The gauges are 52mm I think. One oil-pressure meter is for fuel pressure, the company I bought them from didn't have a gauge that was marked Fuel so I bought two oil-pressure gauges instead. Yes, I am cheap. By spaces I ment that you cannot press space more then two times if you want to create gaps in your post, like for making a table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted January 6, 2008 Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Plans: -Fix handbrake cables -Get it inspected -Fix everything that was wrong at the inspection -FMIC, probably from a Saab 9000t -3" exhaust -Adjustable fuelpressure reagulator (mod the OEM one) -Larger injectors -Hook up MS to the injection -Slightly more boost -LSD-diff -Danielson Cam -E85 conversion how are you planning to mod the oem FPR? that's an interesting idea. also, why E85 conversion? i've been hearing more and more about E85 used in 'sport' situations lately, wondering what the deal is? what all do you have to convert in order to use it? fuel tank, injectors, fuel lines, etc etc etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2008 Cut of the top, make a new top with a threaded hole for an M8 bolt and a washer-thingie that goes between the spring and bolt. The top will then be welded to the FPR and hopefully I won't make toast of the membrane. Sorry about this low-quality drawing, but I hope you get my point. I will also add a pipe to connect to the manifold. E85, because I've heard good things about it, like more resistant to knocking, less carbon buildup, cooler EGT and I'm curious and want to find out myself. Basicly you need about 40% more fuel, so this means bigger injectors, and you need to have fuelhoses, fuelpumps and injectors that are resistant to E85. From what I've heard most injectors and fuelpumps should be fine. I don't think that there would be any problem with our plastic fueltanks. Fuel-lines are steel so those should also be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2008 Small Update, I made the parts for the adjustable FPR today. I will drill a hole and install a nipple for vaccum/boost later. This is another version I made last year, based on a picture I saw in some haynes tuning manual. Bad book BTW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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