GAS MILEAGE

[Guest broke]

Does anyone know how many miles to a full tank (60 litres) of gas a 505 turbo gas should do and if opening a vaccum line should the idle (RPM) raise or lower?

Thanks

[august]

milage on a tank of gas can range depending on engine tune, weather its an automatic or manual, and also how consistant and accurate the speedo is. the best i've seen is around 450 miles to a tank, and the worse was about 150.

a vacuum leak should case the idle to go down in rpm.

[Guest the505inme]

Full to empty, I can usually travel around 500 km +/- 50 km on premium fuel. I have an 86 N9TE sedan w/ 4 spd automatic.

My worst was 250 km , faulty O2 sensor. My best was 600 km.

[Guest broke]

Thanks guys................back to the drawing board..............mileage sucks and rpm increases.

Question............when reading resistance on the mass air flow sensor my meter varies between 90 and 900,

but not in a uniform way as I push on the flap.

[Bean]

Vacuum lines can be a funny thing.

Depending on the car's state of tune, and even which vacuum line will determine what happens to the idle when it's pulled (air is introduced bypassing the VAF). Even the size of the leak can have an effect. Best thing you can do is just make EVERY effort to make sure you don't have a leak, then spend the time to tune the car up to spec - including TPS adjustment.

There's a long discussion on VAF resistance - and I think the conclusion was that they are not linear devices, but I'll let someone else clarify better than I.

As for Mileage - I was consistently getting 300 miles to a tank. Not too terrible but not great.

If you do decide to do an O2 sensor, do some research and wire in a universal 3 or 4 wire one. I've heard many guys on the Subaru list do this mod and they experience significant driveability improvement as well as significant increase in fuel economy. (Since it's heated the car goes into closed loop faster and the ECU responds quicker to the O2 - so it regulates fuel better. That's the rational for the Subaru's so it *should* be the same for the Pug.)

Rabin

FYI - 3 wire has the heated element, 4 wire adds a ground to the signal circuit which gives a cleaner signal.

[Guest broke]

Vacuum lines can be a funny thing.

Depending on the car's state of tune, and even which vacuum line will determine what happens to the idle when it's pulled (air is introduced bypassing the VAF). Even the size of the leak can have an effect. Best thing you can do is just make EVERY effort to make sure you don't have a leak, then spend the time to tune the car up to spec - including TPS adjustment.

There's a long discussion on VAF resistance - and I think the conclusion was that they are not linear devices, but I'll let someone else clarify better than I.

As for Mileage - I was consistently getting 300 miles to a tank. Not too terrible but not great.

If you do decide to do an O2 sensor, do some research and wire in a universal 3 or 4 wire one. I've heard many guys on the Subaru list do this mod and they experience significant driveability improvement as well as significant increase in fuel economy. (Since it's heated the car goes into closed loop faster and the ECU responds quicker to the O2 - so it regulates fuel better. That's the rational for the Subaru's so it *should* be the same for the Pug.)

Rabin

Here is what I found on O2 sensors.

The following symptoms will help tip you off to a failed oxygen sensor:

Surging and/or hesitation

Decline in fuel economy

Unacceptable exhaust emissions

Premature failure of the catalytic converter

You will need the following equipment:

A handheld volt meter (digital VOM)

A propane enrichment device

An oxygen sensor socket

The manufacturer's vehicle specific test instructions.

It should take less than 10 minutes to perform a diagnostic check on most vehicles.

1. Verify the basic engine parameters, per the manufacturer's specifications for the following: timing, integrity of the electrical system (supply voltage), fuel delivery mixture performance and internal mechanical considerations.

2. Treat the rich mixture performance as follows:

a. Disconnect the sensor lead to the control unit.

b. Run the engine at 2500 rpm.

c. Artificially enrich the fuel mixture by directing propane into the intake until the engine speed drops by 200 rpm. Or, if you're working on a vehicle with electronic fuel injection, you can remove and plug the vacuum line to the fuel pressure regulator.

d. If the voltmeter rapidly reads .9 volts, then the oxygen sensor is correctly sensing a rich mixture. But, if the voltmeter responds sluggishly, or if it stays below .8 volts, then the sensor should be replaced.

3. Test the lean mixture performance as follows:

a. Induce a small vacuum leak.

b. If the voltmeter rapidly drops to .2 volts or below in less than a second, then the oxygen sensor is correctly measuring the lean mixture. But, if the voltmeter responds sluggishly, or if it stays above .2 volts, then the sensor should be replaced.

4. Test dynamic performance as follows:

a. Reconnect the sensor lead.

b. Set the mixture to specification.

c. Run the engine at 1500 rpm.

d. The sensor output should fluctuate around .5 volts. If it doesn't, replace the sensor

[Guest broke]

Allright guys I finaly pulled out my car after being stored for the winter. My problems are as follows;

= Car fires up right away when cold but when hot. The gas pedal needs to be pressed or long cranking is needed for it to start.

=There's a faint smell of burned gas when I'm stopped at a red light.

=When cold, the engine responds to the gas throttle immediately but not so when warm or hot.

=Under full acceleration, the car will puff a greyish color.

=Gas Mileage is terrible.

=I tried to adjust the idle using the wire and a multimeter located at the passenger fender and my reading fluctuates at 11 volts and won't drop.

ps.........I'm running the car without a cat and the o2 sensor is new.

Any help out there will be appreciated, Thanks.

[Johnny]

Every symptom you've described suggests that your car is running too rich.

When you say that you've tried to adjust the idle, do you mean the rpm or the air-bypass screw? (located on the afm)

Try to turn the bypass-screw anti-clockwise as much as you can without the car stalling.

When you turn it anti-clockwise the voltage should drop.

If the car stalls, raise the idle-rpm with the screw on the throttle.

You can also try to disconnect the cold-start injector when the car is warm and see if it makes any difference.

[Guest broke]

Every symptom you've described suggests that your car is running too rich.

When you say that you've tried to adjust the idle, do you mean the rpm or the air-bypass screw? (located on the afm)

Try to turn the bypass-screw anti-clockwise as much as you can without the car stalling.

When you turn it anti-clockwise the voltage should drop.

If the car stalls, raise the idle-rpm with the screw on the throttle.

You can also try to disconnect the cold-start injector when the car is warm and see if it makes any difference.

I turned the screw at the afm clock wise and anti clock wise...........also at the throttle body till it stalled

and no significant change.

I will disconnect the cold start injector and see what it gives,,,,,,,thanks

[Guest broke]

I turned the screw at the afm clock wise and anti clock wise...........also at the throttle body till it stalled

and no significant change.

I will disconnect the cold start injector and see what it gives,,,,,,,thanks

Disconnected the cold start injector and found no change except for a longer cranking time inorder to get the engine stared.........any other info would be appreciated,

PS August I will send u the pics soon.......

[Johnny]

Then I think you can rule out the cold start injector.

Is it a N9TEA-engine or a N9TE-engine?

If its the last one, maybe the "full load"-switch is closed all the time?

Have you measured the NTC-sensor?

Have you adjusted the potentiometer/thottle switch?

This document should give you lots of helpandd things to test:

http://peugeot505.info/files/manuals/tt-sd-nsd_15-5.pdf

[Guest broke]

Then I think you can rule out the cold start injector.

Is it a N9TEA-engine or a N9TE-engine?

If its the last one, maybe the "full load"-switch is closed all the time?

Have you measured the NTC-sensor?

Have you adjusted the potentiometer/thottle switch?

This document should give you lots of helpandd things to test:

http://peugeot505.info/files/manuals/tt-sd-nsd_15-5.pdf

I'm running a n9te engine with a resistor pak for the injectors......... the previous engine was a n9t since it was a 85 model.

Another problem creeped up............my alternator lite is on when accelerating and is off when idling.

I noticed also my dash lites glow brighter when accelerating which is kind of neat.

Correct me if I'm wrong , I read in another thread that a faulty thermostat can create havoc on the injection sytem giving false readings since all the sensors seem to be located at the thermostat housing.

Thanks Johnny,,,,,,,,I will recheck the tps.

[N9TE]

Hey Broke, did you ever get to the bottom of this? I'm sorry I didn't participate at the time. Yes, a stuck (open or closed) thermostat can scrw up drivability. NTC sensor requires a functional stat. You know how to test your stat without removing it?

[august]

Hey Broke, did you ever get to the bottom of this? I'm sorry I didn't participate at the time. Yes, a stuck (open or closed) thermostat can scrw up drivability. NTC sensor requires a functional stat. You know how to test your stat without removing it?

test your stat without removing it? other then the obvious? i'm curios

[N9TE]

test your stat without removing it? other then the obvious? i'm curios

A Toyota MDT taught me this trick. Start the car and firmly grasp the top radiator hose. Warm the car up using throttle. It will get comfortably warm after a while, Then the stat will start to open. HOT HOT HOT. Let go. You'll have no choice. At that point you know the stat has opened. Some Toyotas has an interesting bleeding trick where you would remove the radiator cap after you had to remove your hand from the hose. You had 30 seconds to open the rad cap, fill it as the air gap went to the cap and close up before the thing would boil over. During that 30 seconds the hot water from the block was mixing with the cool coolant from the radiator and no boil over would occur.

Neat trick. Worked like a champ. But, as we all know, the book procedure for the N9T is correct and should be followed to the letter.

However, the trick can be used to see if the thermostat is functioning like it should.

[Guest broke]

A Toyota MDT taught me this trick. Start the car and firmly grasp the top radiator hose. Warm the car up using throttle. It will get comfortably warm after a while, Then the stat will start to open. HOT HOT HOT. Let go. You'll have no choice. At that point you know the stat has opened. Some Toyotas has an interesting bleeding trick where you would remove the radiator cap after you had to remove your hand from the hose. You had 30 seconds to open the rad cap, fill it as the air gap went to the cap and close up before the thing would boil over. During that 30 seconds the hot water from the block was mixing with the cool coolant from the radiator and no boil over would occur.

Neat trick. Worked like a champ. But, as we all know, the book procedure for the N9T is correct and should be followed to the letter.

However, the trick can be used to see if the thermostat is functioning like it should.

My problems still haunt me..............I also discovered that below 3000 rpm the car bucks or surges. Once passed the 3000 mark the car runs fine.

My worry is that the thermostat is functioning to well. I don't remember if I had punctured a few extra holes in the thermostat or not. By doing so, the engine would never keep at a constant and ideal temperature.

Let me explain................at idle in traffic the cooloing fans would kick in and drop the temperature to the 1/2 way mark. During highway speeds my temperture gauge would drop low to the the 1/4 mark. I was wondering if this scenario would richen the mixture during highway cruising and lean the mixture during idle.

[N9TE]

My problems still haunt me..............I also discovered that below 3000 rpm the car bucks or surges. Once passed the 3000 mark the car runs fine.

My worry is that the thermostat is functioning to well. I don't remember if I had punctured a few extra holes in the thermostat or not. By doing so, the engine would never keep at a constant and ideal temperature.

Let me explain................at idle in traffic the cooloing fans would kick in and drop the temperature to the 1/2 way mark. During highway speeds my temperture gauge would drop low to the the 1/4 mark. I was wondering if this scenario would richen the mixture during highway cruising and lean the mixture during idle.

After I went through my cooling system, the car would never go much beyond the 1/2 wa point. Usually, it would be 1/2 between 1/4 and 1/2 even in prolonged stop-and-go. Fix your cooling issues first. You can't ignore this as it's as important to the survival of your engine as the oil. Then perform the standard Bosch-L diagnostic test as described in the book. Goto www.peugeot505.info for the manual in on-line form.

Chances are a few things need attention. Fuel pressure regulator, perhaps fuel filter. But get the cooling system in order first. I may have went overboard. I bought a new radiator, stat, hoses, sources Toyota and Nissan constant-tension clamps, totally refurbished my water tank linky - polishing and testing each sensor. Then, I changed to Toyota red coolat after thoroughly flushing out the green stuff. Am I a freak? Maybe, but I know my cooling system is 100%. Has made diagnosing other elements easier as a result.

[Bean]

I went with an OEM Nissan T-stat that crossed over to the Peugeot one from a jobber catalogue. Car immediately had a much more stable temp with it in... (search this site and you should find the part # in one of my posts...)

So make sure to ensure the whole system is up to snuff - but I highly recommend the Nissan T-Stat over any of the other ones. It's built really well...

Rabin