Took delivery of my '89 SW8. Few questions...

[bergxu]

Hey all,

Well, my newly purchased wagon got delivered yesterday to me from Chicago. Overall, the car is in fair condition--definitely not anywhere as nice as the seller (who is a dealer) made it sound. In hindsight, had I gone up in person to look at it, I probably would have either haggled some more $ off the asking price or else would have taken a pass on it and kept looking.

That being said, I love the red color on the wagon and it does seem to run and drive pretty well and the interior is in nice shape and it has all the original books and some service history. It runs and shifts fine, stops fine and has good boost pressure. Not to mention, my wife loves how comfortable the seats are--just like my Citroën DS's 'sofas'

Anyhow, my gripes with the car are mostly down to cosmetics, as there is a bit more rust than he let on to (which I should have assumed since it lived in Chicago it's whole life), but that can be dealt with since I'm in the automotive indistry, I have enough contacts to sort that out. But the driver's side mirror is broken and is rigged in place, the driver's door sags quite a bit and a couple of the instruments aren't working (oil gauge is totally dead, boost gauge and tach are intermittent, but do register). The radio doesn't power up and the A/C isn't cooling as he said it was. But again, those are all things I'd reasonably expect, so I'll enjoy bringing it back up to proper health in the upcoming months. Only other things are that the rear of the car seems to ride a bit stiff...are these shocks known to seize up with age or is that a characteristic of the solid rear axle? Car has 143K on it. And lastly, the power steering has no assist. Any tips on where to begin there?


Looking forward to any info you guys can offer regarding my car's needs!

Aaron

[Bean]

Too bad it didn't exceed expectations, but that's usually a tall order when buying from a dealer sight unseen. You do have have some recourse via ebay for things like the rust, ac and the mirror so maybe they will work with you or risk negative feedback.

That said - problems (aside from rust) are likely easily fixed by you and it wasn't that expensive. It's also a very rare car which is pretty darn cool.

Mirror - if its broken it'll need replacing, but some just get loose and with a little effort I'm sure it could be tightened up.

Gauges are most likely either bad grounds or bad connections. Oil pan should have a pan sensor that measures level with the key on, and once running measures oil temperature (*corrected - thanks Bill!). Boost gauge and tach are like the same ground / connection issue.

Biggest failing on these cars is they didn't use sealed electrical connectors, and the gounding trees are also known trouble points.

Rear shocks: Since its the turbo it will have a firmer ride, and unladen it will likely be quite stiff. They're usually known for amazing payload capability, so unloaded it might be too stiff. Shocks are also known to last a very long time so if they haven't been leaking they are likely just stiff. Tires will also play a big part of course, so make sure they're not old and dry rotted. If all checks out - take a few people out for a ride and see if quality improves with a load.

I have an 86' 505S TD wagon and its ride is the closest thing to swallowing up road irregularities to the '71 DS Safari I drove. DS was still leagues better, but a well sorted wagon rides amazing.

Rabin

[bergxu]

Thanks Rabin,

What do you think about the lack of power steering assistance? As I understand it, the rack is assisted via an external ram as opposed to being internally boosted, correct? While I haven't even popped the hood yet to inspect the belt (or lack thereof??), I'm guessing there must be something with the ram internals?

[bill]

I am also in the Buckeye State up in Massillon. I just acquired my 7th 505.

I have had three three turbos where the instruments have been wacky just as you describe. The turbo gauge circuit does have some sort of common internal flaw, where if you tap the clear plastic on the instrument panel, the gauges for the boost and the oil temp will spring back to life, then go out again at their discretion. I haven't found out why, but I haven't looked very hard.

The oil level gauge comes on when the switch is turned on but before starting. After starting, it reads oil temperature when running.

On the boost gauge, I plumbed in a vacuum hose from a mechanical boost gauge from Harbor Freight tools (they had the best price ~$20 and work fine) out through the grommet in the firewall below the fusebox and connected it to the intake manifold (simply tee in to the existing port). I put the gauge in the recess where the tweeter cover is. What you are reading with that setup is actual pressure.

You do want to know what the boost pressure is accurately. There is a little vacuum hose coming off the turbo which controls the wastegate. This hose is very inexpensive, but very important, because if it fails, the car with start over-boosting. I have mine set at 11 pounds.

About ten years ago, Joe Grubbs was very kind to share information on turbo tuning. The stuff he wrote is gold.

I may have an extra OEM Alpine radio/cassette that worked when I pulled it a few years ago.

I had a pair of rear shocks on a wagon get stiff. Or should I say stuck. You should be able to bounce the bumper.

-Bill

[Bean]

If everything is intact with the power steering (ie: belt and fluid level) then it's most likely the speed sensitive steering system. There's a secondary system that uses a sensor on the speedo cable to vary assist to the ram based on speed. Very clever system and works awesome - but it's also affected by poor connections.

Unit is under the battery tray, so I would clean it all up and verify wires and connectors are all good first of all. Many cars just have the system disconnected, but its such a simple system that it should be easy to figure out. Worst case Id open up the control unit and verify circuit board integrity and components aren't burnt.

My money is on connections though.

Rabin

[bergxu]

Bill;

Thanks for the info. Good to hear from someone else in Ohio! Please let me know if you do have a spare radio and how much you'd want for it and regarding the rear shocks; what did you do to rectify? I understand they're rebuildable but who does it? Mine must be stuck--my car rides very poorly at the rear.

Rabin;

Thanks for the info on the steering system. Any reason why they get intentionally disconnected? If I find that it has been, what's the likely culprit for why? But I'll do as you say and check connections first and foremost and will report back on what I find.

I did order a Haynes manual off of eBay so hopefully that can also provide some guidance so I don't have to bug you guys every fortnight

[bill]

The "89 turbo wagon does not have speed sensitive steering, at least mine didn't. I heard just the sedans, but I could be wrong.

Actually, I have a couple of spare radios that I can part with. I have the security codes for each.

The one is from an 87, which had a different plug than the '89 (now just loose wires). $15 plus $9 shipping.

The other is from an "89 and has the unique red plug. It's also a factory Alpine cassette. The '89 radio also features a CD/DAT outlet in the back. I have the manual for it. It has a button for tv sound, but it probably doesn't work because of digital broadcasting. The weather button probably works though. $25 for that, $35 for both.

The back has shocks and the front has the rebuildable shocks DIY w/ rebuild kit ~$20. Rears aren't rebuildable.

At the time, Brian Holm had a used set of shocks, but that was 10 years ago.

-Bill

[Bean]

Thanks Bill - I differ to your experience over my assumptions. I know the wagons never got the increased boost of the sedans, but assumed they got the speed sensitive steering.

Aaron - There likely is a mechanical issue with the power steering. Simple system so it should be easy to figure out.

Dash cluster - I'd pull the cluster as it has a ribbon connector that is likely the issue if you can tap it and they respond. Might be worth a shot. (Two small screw drivers - one in each hole one on each side to pry the clip and release. Steering wheel might have to come off though.)

Haynes - I hope you got the British version as the US one is crap. Nothing better than FSM's.

Joe's TPS adjustment procedure is in the tech section - this is a MUST as there is a very real difference in how these cars run when the TPS is perfectly adjusted, as well as the throttle switch. (Make sure nobody has used it to adjust idle!)

Rabin

[bergxu]

Thanks all again. Anyone have or know of any Euro headlamps for sale? Those are going to be a definite upgrade.

Bill, I'm going to send my radio and antenna to a buddy up near Youngstown who is an electrical engineer and just see if he can revive them. If not, I'll take the radio you have for the '89. Will let you know.

[Bean]

Euro lights come up used once in a while, but if you want new then Madhu at Parts Network or Brian Holm might be able to get them.

There was a used set in BC for $200, but I think it was the left one that had a rock bruise.

Huge improvement for sure - I've got Narva 90/100W bulbs in mine and they are amazing. Much more preferred over ANY hid set I've experienced to this point.

Rabin

[bergxu]

Rabin,

How would I go about reaching out to either of those two guys for the lights?

[bill]

I have euros for both my 505s. The one set is going in my new 85 GL wagon. I am wondering about sourcing the 80 or 90/100s bulbs. Are they the H3? I couldn't seem to find them on ebay. Is there a source?

I could also use a rubber grommet that goes on the back, where the plug and wires go in.

I remember when I got my first set of euros, a guy in the parking lot in 1990 flagged me down when I was in Florida, and said he had a Valeo set from his 505 that had been totaled from the rear, asking $100 for both. He said he had a friend send them to him from France. They had 80/100 bulbs in them. Everything readily available that I have found has been 55watt.

Also, I want to wire up some sort of relay, to take the load off of the switch. Do I use two relays, one for low beam and one for high beam? Also, the connections: can I use my trusty Thomas and Betts crimper? Or should I use solder? Something else?

I figure if I am doing it, I might as well do it right.

Bill

[Bean]

Aaron: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/forum/22-vendors/

Bill: www.danielsternlighting.com

Bulbs should be H4 bulbs. Previous owner of my car (and this forum - August MacBeth) installed ceramic bulb sockets. Stock 505's do have a relay, but when I install my 505 Biode Euro headlights I'll be running separate relays and new wiring for high and low. (Biodes have an additional high beam reflector and H3 bulb in addition to the main H4)

Crimping vs soldering: I personally like solder and heat shrink, but with good crimps and high grade crimping pliers you're supposed to get as good or better connection than solder.

I LOVE good lighting, and once you have it, it's like an addiction.

Rabin