billbranch Posted March 31, 2014 Report Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hello, I have had three incidents with water/heavy rain in which the car stopped running/wouldn't start. Once it was while my daughter was driving in a downpour, the last two when I left the car out overnight in the rain. After drying for four hours the car started. Once, it started slowly, firing occasionally, but I kept at it. Yesterday once I got it running I drove it a few miles, but it wouldn't run smoothly under load. After sitting in the warm garage for another few hours it was OK. I had a problem with the ECU behind the glove box: water had seeped in and screwed up the PCB, ignition problems, with the tach waving wildly and the car dying. Supposedly, Roger found the drains clogged and cleaned them out. In none of the three cases did I look behind that kick panel or the glove box for water. All of the important relays are bagged. Should I be headed for the ECU's to check for water, could this be a problem because of the old and cracked (in places) wiring? Has anyone else experienced this syndrome? Thanks. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 1, 2014 Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 I might be inclined to spray some WD-40 around the coil and such the next time it happens. Anything to displace the water quickly to help you locate the source. Just a stab.. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted April 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2014 Thanks, Bill. I'll give that a try. I think I may also, in dry weather, leave the car idling while I run a garden hose on the cowl above the HVAC air intake. That seems to be where large amounts of water entered the cabin. You've been around a while, you probably remember Pierre Tocci. He told me he carried a can of starting fluid, a can of electronic component cooler, and a can of WD-40; he could diagnose most non-starting issues without a wrench. The only tool he'd need is a rag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 17, 2014 Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 I gotta take a look at the website notification system as I'm not getting notified as well as I should for new posts - so sorry for the tardy reply. How old are your plug wires Bill? I've ran into a very similar situation, and it was because the plug wire insulation had deteriorated to the point that when it got humid - spark was able to arc from one wire to the next and cause misfiring. The hard way to find this out is to mist water on the distributor and then try to touch the wires.... (I don't recommend it - but I have done it.) Now I think I'd just replace the wires with new rather than take the shocks! Distributor cap can be anther if it's older and has carbon tracing inside it. Failing all that - I'd be looking at connectors and such and ensuring they were protected with some sort of dielectric grease. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted April 17, 2014 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2014 Rabin, Thanks for your reply. You can not imagine my dismay (maybe you can, since you've had a few N9Txx's) when last week I pulled to a light, and the car was running on three cylinders. I pulled #2 plug and had 35 lbs so it's off to RB Auto for some diagnoses. Maybe I'm in dreamland and the valves just need adjustment. Last time Roger said the #2 and #3 (exhaust) valves seemed to be burning, and I know a multitude of possible reasons for that. But, on a brighter note Blackie, the 405 in which my daughter overheated the engine a little, is back on the road with some new bearings, new rings, a recon head, and a plethora of new parts. And her Saabaru with the 2.5L non-turbo just got new head gaskets and all the belts and parts a conscientious mechanic would replace. Now Roger is ready for Whitey again. If '"we" decide to keep the car, I'm sure he'll replace the wires and cap. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hello Again, Same syndrome. Except car is dry. Roger finally has car reassembled and in his shop it's doing the same thing: he checked, no spark, no fuel. He has the diagrams. Can this be the tachymetric? Any other suggestions? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebs Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Take a look at the hall sensor and connections on the dizzy. Does the fuel pump prime when you turn the key? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks for your reply. Roger is concerned about Hall sensor. We have no fuel pressure, no spark. We also have diagnostics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebs Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 If it doesn't prime I'd say tachymetric. If you cant find another relay it could probably be replaced with 2 regular 30a relays. You could have a combination failure of the hall and tachymetric just by coincidence since the problem started in the rain and now it's constant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Will try to have both changed. Thanks for replying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Have you checked the fuel pump fuse behind the ashtray? Relays? Tachymetric relay can be bypassed by providing 12v directly to pump - so easy to test. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Hi, Rabin, I'll be speaking with Roger today. He has become quite familiar with these relays and their foibles. I am sure he will have discovered a few things. While I have your ear, do you know anyone who has at the very least the bottom metal trim and corners for 89-> 505 front windshield? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 11, 2014 Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Good luck Bill! Metal corners should be easy enough, but the strip is plastic and the only way to get them out intact is to slice the rubber gasket, and remove after. They are exceptionally brittle, so even if you get it out, putting it back in can break them. Anybody with parts cars should have them - same set up on cars 85+ IIRC. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 11, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2014 Thanks, Rabin. Roger said he does have fuel pressure and is forging ahead testing ignition components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Thanks again to all. Roger (believe it or not) used my literature from Peugeot and narrowed it down to the Hall sensor. Broken/cracked wire. You may rest assured I'll be reporting on The Resurrection of Whitey III in a few days. I do want in a very bad way the pieces/housing for the front spoiler Series 2 where the fog lights mount. I have to cut the holes out on spoiler, but I need these color doesn't matter. The pieces I need push in and snap in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 12, 2014 Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 Hi Bill - Randy Porter posted pictures of his 89 V6 and he is just running the bumper without those pieces, with Hella 450's mounted - looks great. (Btw: 89+ are considered series 3, 86-88 series 2, <85 series 1) Hopefully the distributor is an easy fix. Previous owners/mechanics are very hard on the distributor wiring and 9/10 times the plastic portion of the harness that clips into the distributor housing is broken. VW's of similar vintage share the guts so I was able to get a good one so that its secure. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 12, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2014 You are absolutely correct about the wiring. Roger has set out to find the appropriate parts today. He said it was cracked and the wire was broken. All of the jostling around with the remedial work finally must have broke it free. I'll take a look at Randy's rig. I need to have the whole bumper/spoiler repainted; I hit a safety cone knocked into me at speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 15, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2014 Now we are getting into the bonus round: are the fuel pumps supposed to run all the time? With ignition on and engine off, pumps run. With ignition on and ignition and injection ECU's disconnected, pumps run. This is the way the car was last spring when I checked compression because it had no power. Now, when ice cold, the car will start instantly, run normally for a second, and then revert to running like crap. Roger has finally ducked under the steering column to look at tachymetric. The question is should these pumps run like this all of the time? As I have gleaned from another thread, the tachymetric will shut off the pumps if there's no ignition pulse. Thanks for any ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keebs Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 When you cycle the key to run they do a short prime then shut off until an rpm signal is seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Pump should also get power while cranking. Something is definitely suspect with what you describe - tachymetric relay shorted, harness shorted, or ??? Keep us posted on what Roger finds... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thanks for your replies and interest. keebs, I do not know the answer to your question, although I suspect that is what should be the case. Pumps get power all of the time. We do not know if the tachymetric is faulty; I told him to take the one out of the CX25. What is bewildering to Roger is that the car won't run. As he said, and as we've done with the CX25 with the no-go fuel pumps, we can hook up a spray bottle of gasoline to the intake and make the thing run. If the fuel pumps are running, and we do, indeed, have fuel, spark, and compression, why won't the thing run? Unfortunately, the Peugeot literature is not step-by-step, he doesn't see these things every day, and he is addled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Back to basics: Is there spark? What's fuel pressure at the rail? And are the injectors firing? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Rabin, And you know I love Roger like a brother, but I have asked him if he's tested for voltage at the injectors, and I get the old excuses of how hard it is to get at them, blah blah, yes, there is spark at the plugs, too, he pulled two out he said and had spark at those two. Well, the car is assembled. I have to make a decision now. He just had the major heart attack and can't do much physically, he relies on a helper to do the bulk of the lifting. When I bought this car it had undergone major abuse in Tennessee, the head had been replaced and the connector for two of the injectors had not been clicked together; it ran crappy half of the tine, which I am sure is why the PO sold it. Roger chased the wiring back from the injectors, and, and soon as he pulled the connector apart, he said, that was the problem. I do not know how much "heart" he has for this stuff now. Maybe I need a new harness, that is definitely a possibility. All I can think is, "Why won't the car run?" He's getting in a couple new relays tomorrow. Thanks again for your interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 16, 2014 Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Right next to the NTC sensor test I posted is the injection diagnostic. Would it help to post that or does Roger have the FSM for the N9TEA? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2014 Where is the NTC test? No, he does not have the manual, and it would be extremely kind if you could post that injection diagnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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