billy bee Posted March 31, 2013 Report Share Posted March 31, 2013 I have been admiring a friends' car (1981 505 TD 5-spd) for several years and asked that, if they were to sell, please let me know. Well, the car didn't start for them yesterday morning and they called. I looked it over more closely this morning. It is in decent shape. The IP has been leaking, and I suspect it needs a rebuild. The car has about 300k on it. But I think I can buy it very reasonably; they want it to stay on the road... Any suggestions on what I should look for. How much for an IP rebuild? Where is a reputable rebuilder? I would do some searches here, but have no idea what to start searching for (other than turbo diesel). I told them I would get back to them tomorrow. Hope you guys can help in the meantime... Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Bill, Wellcome to the forum. Where are you located? Rabin recently had his pump done by Jeremy see: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2258-diesel-parts-suppliers-and-repair-facilities/?p=18025 Marc Maksimow mentioned on the facebook group that Ukit, in El Monte CA, just resealed his IP. I'm dealing with that issue now as well. Injector Pumps made before the introduction of ultra low sulfur diesel fuel have seals that shrink with the ULS fuel that is universally available now. Once they are resealed, the new seals are made to go with ULS diesel and that will not be a problem any more. The obvious things to look at for any older car apply here like rust and fluid leaks. These engines tend to blow head gaskets and crack heads so a compression test would be a good thing to do. Are you able to do your own work on it? Depending on your location, you are likely to find a shortage of mechanics willing and able to do the work for you. For the most part you won't walk into your local auto parts store and get parts for it, but with a little persistence most things can be found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Oh and as far as it failing to start, other than dead batteries and extreme cold weather just about the only thing that has caused my various Peugeot Diesels to fail to start has been air getting into the fuel system. It is possible if the injector pump is leaking badly for it to loose it's prime and fail to work. I have also had the diaphragm in the priming pump on top of the fuel filter fail. When that happens you will just suck air and the car will not run. I haven't personally had the fuel supply lines leak air but that can happen. Do all the idiot lights come on when you turn the key? I did have a corroded electrical connection cause a no start once. See: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2339-1985-td-sedan/?p=16352 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 1, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 Hi Dave: Thanks for your responses I live in Arroyo Grande, CA, half way between LA an d SF on the coast. There seem to be a number of these cars here in CA. Feels like I am in good company. I did not check the idiot lights. But the owners feel certain it is the injector pump. 300k miles and several years running ULS. I have had my Volkswagen IP done by DFIS in Portland. I'll probably give them a call tomorrow to discuss. Other than the IP/fuel problem, the car seems solid. Any ideas on value of the car in non-running condition? Thanks again, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 1, 2013 Report Share Posted April 1, 2013 I'm sure you do need the IP resealed but I wouldn't count on that being the cause of it not starting. It makes a mess for a long time before it leaks so badly that the car doesn't run. If you can prime it and get it running and it runs OK but after sitting for a day or two it won't start, that is likely to be the pump seals. If it's the priming pump diaphragm, that's like a couple of bucks for the part, and that is more likely to cause a sudden failure. I'm not a good one to give price advice. I've seen ones in really good condition go for $4,000 - $6,000. I recently bought a 505 TD for $500 with the engine in very good condition but a badly rusted body. So you should probably budget $1,000 for the injector pump and then figure out what else you're going to need to spend on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Bill, So how did you make out? Did you make an offer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Hi Dave: Thanks for checking back with me. I did not make an offer. I came to the conclusion that the car wasn't worth anything in its present condition. So, the owners decided to fix it. But here's the catch--once it is fixed, they are going on the road for several months. While they are gone, they want me to take care of it. So, in essence, I will become the steward of the car. I can drive it and help them keep it in drivable condition. They will need it back when they return for their short visits to the central coast. So, I am very excited. It is such a great car, and all involved believe that it is worth keeping on the road. You will be seeing more of me... Thx, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 Sorry I missed this whole exchange - didn't show up when I used the new content button.... Welcome to the forum Bill - and yes you are in good hands. You mentioned having your VW pump resealed so it sounds like you're a long time diesel guy? If so I think you'll really like these cars. Getting to drive it for the next few months will likley make the situation much worse. Hopefully your friends have a good mechanic, and can get the work done right. BIGGEST issue with these cars are shoddy previous mechanics and / or previous owners not willing to keep them maintained. I've bought several "white elephant" cars that the owners just got so fed up with repairs and every one was dead reliable with proper tune and maintenance. Not sure if you read my thread on the IP rebuild, but I have very high hopes for my TD build up. With some VW IDI tricks I think I'll be able to really modernize the power and still keep the economy. Rabin -edit: changed "TDI" back to "IDI" because Peugeots and old VW's are Indirect Diesel Injection (IDI) and not newer VW Turbo Direct Injection (TDI). HDI in newer Peugeot's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 bill, welcome! i saw your request last night to join the facebook group & approved it; there's lots of overlap between this forum, the facebook group and the yahoo list (peugeot-l). glad to have another west-coaster aboard! i pass through arroyo grande from time to time, on the way to monterey from los angeles since we usually take the 101 (ribline FTMFW! ). hopefully we can get another meet-up this summer or next fall, would love to see you there. you should drop a line to forum member peugeottogo if you haven't already, jeff is a longtime peugeot owner/dieselhead who's not too far away from you. i'll drop you a line the next time i'm passing through, maybe we can get a cup of coffee or something (please do the same for me if you come to LA). andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Hi guys, Thanks to you both for writing. I am excited about getting to know the car better and caring for it. I did reach out to peugeottogo. He lives in the Carmel Valley, and I get up there regularly for work. I'll drive the 5oh5 up for a visit sometime soon... Also hope to see you, andre, in AG. I hope to avoid LostAngeles at all costs. Sorry. Did my time. Now I'm free... Thanks, guys, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peugeottogo Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Bill, pleasure talking with you on Monday. Got your email update regarding the car, good news that this one will be repaired and will continue to be driven. Any idea whom they are taking the car to for repairs? I assume after their long history of ownership, it must be a reputable shop. Keep us posted on future updates or feel free to call me with questions. By all means bring it up to the valley with you when its ready. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Any idea whom they are taking the car to for repairs? I assume after their long history of ownership, it must be a reputable shop. Hi Jeff: There is a shop here in SLO owned by a mutual friend. The owner, Mike Morin, works on a couple 505s and is a good guy overall. His heart is in older Alfas and British cars...and running his shop. So, I am not sure of the outcome. They are just spending time and money to diagnose it for now, taking the process one small step at a time. If I had a place to store and work on the car, we might have gone that route. But I am a F/T student, up to my neck in volunteer obligations, and have a handful of other projects in the hopper. There simply is no room, literally and figuratively (and financially), for another project. But I love the car. I hope to be able to get and keep it running for a very long time... I'll be in Carmel this weekend. Not a lot of free time when I am there, but I really would like to meet up and see your TDs. I am up there a few more times in the next month. We'll connect sooner than later. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peugeottogo Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 Bill, give me a call while your here this weekend. I'll be in & out but we may be able to meet. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted April 4, 2013 Report Share Posted April 4, 2013 oh, sure, you'll go to carmel, but LA gets no love andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Update on this car. The owners had some sticker shock on the repair costs. I Called DFIS in Portland and got a quote of $525 to rebuild the inj pump. They are very good and very reasonable. I have used them in the past to rebuild my VW TDI pump. Excellent group of guys. Anyway, they are willing to give me the car, but I don't have a place to put it. All my garage space is full. The don't want to junk the car, but are willing to give it away. I hate to let it go, but it's not practical for me, even for free... (Or at least that's what my wife tells me.) Anybody else interested? Anybody know if this car can be towed on a dolly? bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 If you can get pics posted, and some more specfic details I'm sure someone down there will be able to save the car... 5-sp TD 505 would be an awesome car and if I was even remotely close I'd save it in a heart beat! Awesome that your friends are willing to give the car to a good home. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Is the cost of rebuilding the injector pump what's causing the sticker shock or does it need additional repairs? As I said before I have my doubts about that being the cause of it not starting, but none the less it needs to be done. If that is all it needs the car is unquestionably worth doing it, but with 300K miles on it, there are other things that could need doing and run up the bill quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peugeottogo Posted April 5, 2013 Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 Bill, I maybe able to give it a home. Being a 5spd. it can be towed with a car dolly. Recently gave my surplus injector pump to another Peugeot enthusiast friend to save another car from its demise. If your handy, a last resort would be remove the one off of this car which I planned to do; http://row52.com/Vehicle/Index/VF3BA41E4BS305005 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2013 If you can get pics posted, and some more specfic details Don't really have to to mess around these next few day and the clock is ticking on the car. You guys know most everything I know about the car. Here are the few additional notes I have from an e-mail to Jeff: one owner for the last 21 years regular oil changes every 3k miles it has been parked about 50% of the time Car was stored outdoors in Paso Robles leaky inj pump does not start solid body--no rust...only minor surface rust sunroof was bondo'd shut "S" model terrible paint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Hi guys, Great news. My dear wife, in her infinite wisdom, finally realized that letting me get this car is a cheap way to make me happy. So, I am the owner of a dead PewJoe. I am thrilled. I'll get the car into my garage in San Luis Obispo later this week. May go fetch that inj pump in the valley next weekend, Jeff. Probably will pull the head, too. Anything else I should get? Any special tools I should take? I took some pix this afternoon. Will post them up later in the week... Thanks for the support, guys. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 Some pictures taken yesterday: The black paint on the body is POR-15, a rust arrestor. No rust through. Very nice clean interior. bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 First thing I would try to do would be to prime the fuel system. Loosen the bleed on the filter housing output and pump the priming pump. See if it spits out fuel. If the diaphragm in the priming pump is leaking, that is probably why it won't start. If the priming pump is working, then getting the injector pump primed again will likely get it going, so you can drive it home. The other thing that could cause it not to run is the fuel shutoff solenoid. If the glow plugs, or their control relay, are bad it won't start real easy but in resonably warm weather you should be able to start it. Assuming the battery and starter motor are doing their thing, I'd be surprised if one of the above doesn't get it running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 First thing I would try to do would be to prime the fuel system. Loosen the bleed on the filter housing output and pump the priming pump. Is that a lever, or do I crank the engine to pump the priming pump? bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 9, 2013 Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 There should be a rubber button on top of the filter assembly - pushing it should be the primer Dave mentioned. My assembly was replaced with a VW one - so I used a fluid transfer pump to suction the return line at the filter to draw diesel through the whole system including the IP after my car sat all last winter and it fired right up. If that pump can't draw any fuel you know air is getting into the system and you can start checking. Once it was full - I just dumped it back in the fuel tank. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 9, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2013 My assembly was replaced with a VW one - so I used a fluid transfer pump to suction the return line at the filter to draw diesel through the whole system including the IP after my car sat all last winter and it fired right up. If that pump can't draw any fuel you know air is getting into the system and you can start checking. Rabin I have used a mighty vac for the same purpose on my VW TDI. And, like yours, the PO of my car has replaced the filter unit with something that uses less expensive filters. I'll try to suck fuel thought the systems and see what happens. Thanks, guys, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.