tulaweb Posted November 18, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 18, 2012 Today I stopped at Pep Boys and had them check the Bosch from the blue car. It did not pass. I have been monitoring the voltage on the grey car using the Paris-Rhone using a meter plugged into the cigarette lighter unlike the past few days. the alternator worked fine all day even after dark with the headlights on. I'm going to stop by a place that specializes in rebuilding alternators and starter motors with the Bosch tomorrow and see what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted November 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2012 I dropped off the Bosch Alternator from the blue car at a rebuilder today. When I walked in he asked if it was a Mercedes. When I said Peugeot he didn't bat an eye. He said he might have one in stock but after a look around said he would need to rebuild mine. He asked if it had been under water. I imagine since Hurricane Sandy they've seen a lot of starters and alternators that had been under water. Unlike yesterday, the Paris-Rhone alternator, in the grey car, was not working today. By the time I got home after various errands it was down to 10.5 volts. I've got the battery charger on overnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted November 24, 2012 Report Share Posted November 24, 2012 Just catching up. I think I had to invert the alternator bracket and drill a new hole to make it work with the P-R alternator. Come to think of it though, I could only get the belt so tight. It was tight enough at first, but now some time and miles have passed and I wonder if the belt is just really loose and that's why your charging situation isn't so great? :-/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted November 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2012 Just catching up. I think I had to invert the alternator bracket and drill a new hole to make it work with the P-R alternator. Come to think of it though, I could only get the belt so tight. It was tight enough at first, but now some time and miles have passed and I wonder if the belt is just really loose and that's why your charging situation isn't so great? :-/ I don't know why I didn't notice that before, and I don't know if that's the whole problem, but you're right it is loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 It really needs the P-R bracket to do it up properly. At the time I was a bit fed up with Rock Auto and didn't want to leave the car disabled, so I hastily rigged the original Bosch bracket. Swapping the brackets is a painless ordeal of course--just one bolt into the block. Brian Holm probably has one to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 27, 2012 Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 If the alternator is secure and has some adjustment, I'd look at just getting a slightly small diameter belt. IIRC they usuall come in 5cm/2" increments. And a loose belt fits your intermittent issue very well - so hopefully it's a nice easy fix. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted November 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2012 If the alternator is secure and has some adjustment, I'd look at just getting a slightly small diameter belt. IIRC they usuall come in 5cm/2" increments. And a loose belt fits your intermittent issue very well - so hopefully it's a nice easy fix. I was thinking of that. I can't quite see what the adjustment situation is. I'll take a look at it tomorrow, weather permitting. It really needs the P-R bracket to do it up properly. At the time I was a bit fed up with Rock Auto and didn't want to leave the car disabled, so I hastily rigged the original Bosch bracket. Swapping the brackets is a painless ordeal of course--just one bolt into the block. Brian Holm probably has one to spare. Since I have the Bosch alternator from the other car, into which this engine will eventually go, that's probably easier than getting the P-R bracket. If the other engine turns out to be repairable and I need the P-R alternator for it, then I'll look into getting the correct bracket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted November 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 I swapped out the alternators. The Belt that was on the grey car with the P-R alternator was smaller than the one on the blue car with the Bosch alternator. Joe said he couldn't get it very tight so I imagine that was part of trying to get it to fit. I put the blue car's bracket in place of the one Joe had modified to get the P-R one in, and used the belt from the blue car which was less than a year old. When I got the car from Joe, there was a heater spliced into the lower radiator hose. I couldn't get it not to rub on the blades of the Bosch alternator, and since the heater either doesn't work at all, or at least not very well I decided to take it out and use the hose from the blue car. The bottom hose clamp faced into the fan shroud so I had to remove that. When I went to put the hose from the blue car in I discovered that it was about two inches too short. The blue car has an aftermarket radiator and the bottom hose connection is positioned slightly higher up. So I used pieces from both hoses with the heater body as a joint. I'll figure out a better solution soon but I had to work with what I had on hand or be off the road for a few days. I intend to put the block heater from the blue car into this one anyway so I don't need the one that came with it. For the past week or so I've had a fuel leak coming from the vicinity of the injector pump. I tried to identify it while I had the battery out but I can't tell if it's coming from the pump itself or from one of the connections to the pump. The side of the block below the pump is all wet and it is dripping from the oil pan at rest and presumably while driving. When I started the car after the alternator swap it shook so that I thought I has left a wrench in it or something but everything is clear of everything else. It smooths right out with a little more RPMs but it idles very rough. I'm betting it is related to the fuel leak. Any thoughts on that would be appreciated. Oh, and the Bosch alternator seems to be working fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 glad to hear that the alternator is working well in the grey car. no idea on the leak, though. since the blue car no longer has an alternator, it's disabled, correct? that's not a problem, is it? are you going to have the P-R alternator rebuilt? if so, will you get a P-R bracket and put it back into the grey car? so many questions... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JunktionFET Posted November 30, 2012 Report Share Posted November 30, 2012 It is an original injection pump so far as I could tell, so it's possible that the ULS diesel fuel has finally had its way with the seals. During the brief time I owned it, one of the injector return lines (they were all original) sprung a leak and I replaced it. Other than that it was leak free. I always mixed in Power Service diesel treatment with every tank just to be sure. The pump on my old '82 XD2S car started leaking when I made the mistake of trying B20 Biodiesel in it. Weirdly the first leak seemed to come from the o-ring on the Max Fuel adjustment screw (screw on the block side of the pump, has a metal collar crimped onto it). I replaced that o-ring but shortly thereafter the big seal around the pump head (the cast iron bit the injector pipes attach to) started seeping and I had to go for an all out re-seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 since the blue car no longer has an alternator, it's disabled, correct? that's not a problem, is it? are you going to have the P-R alternator rebuilt? if so, will you get a P-R bracket and put it back into the grey car? so many questions... The Blue car is disabled because the engine seized when I sucked water into the air intake, so the lack of an alternator is not an issue. At some time I expect to put the engine from the grey car into the blue one. If on autopsy it turns out that the engine in the blue car is salvageable, then I'll have the P-R alternator and I'll either use it as a core to get a rebuilt Bosch or I'll just have it rebuilt. Now I may need to take the injector pump from the blue car as well. so it's getting more and more disabled all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 I think the injector pump on the blue car may have been starting to leak as well before the engine seized.. From time to time I would find a puddle of fuel under it. I would then go weeks with no more evidence of leaking. In all my almost 40 years of experience owning Peugeot Diesels I've never had a problem with an injector pump before. Of course none of them were this old before, so maybe 28 years is when they start to leak. I can't see myself resealing an injector pump myself. I'm not sure where to go for that. Any recommendations? Is that something a local diesel mechanic would (should) tackle, or is that a job for a specialist? How hard is it to remove and reinstall the pump? If the one in the blue car is leaking less but the one in the grey car probably has less miles on it, I might be inclined to put the pump from the blue car in the grey car, while I get the one out of the grey one resealed. Although I haven't really investigated it yet, I have a feeling this ain't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2012 BTW I've run a few errands since I reported the rough idle and it seems to have smoothed out after a mile or two. Perhaps a leaking seal caused it to ingest a little air while it was sitting for a couple of days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 The Blue car is disabled because the engine seized when I sucked water into the air intake, so the lack of an alternator is not an issue. At some time I expect to put the engine from the grey car into the blue one. If on autopsy it turns out that the engine in the blue car is salvageable, then I'll have the P-R alternator and I'll either use it as a core to get a rebuilt Bosch or I'll just have it rebuilt. Now I may need to take the injector pump from the blue car as well. so it's getting more and more disabled all the time. of course, now that you explain it again, i remember (sorry!). it sounds like you are building a "best of" motor in the grey car -- using the best parts from both cars, so when the time comes to do the swap, you will be ready to go... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 2, 2012 Report Share Posted December 2, 2012 http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2258-diesel-parts-suppliers-and-repair-facilities/#entry18025 Posted the contact info for Jeremy who is doing the rebuild and modification on my injection pump. I priced out getting my pump resealed locally and it was over $1K. Jeremy's price was less than half that, and when he was actually excited to play around with my AAZ hybrid idea I knew he was a true enthusiast. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 If I thought I could just put the IP from the blue car into the grey car while sending the one out of the grey car off to Jeremy for a reseal that sounds like a good thing to do, but I was looking at the procedure for timing it and besides not having the gauges I'm not confident about doing that myself. Steffen Moller tells me that he had similar symptoms to mine and was able to fix it with a single O ring. That would certainly be a best case scenario. I think I will try to remove the pump from the blue car and see if I can identify the O ring Steffen is referring to. I'll then try to obtain a couple of those before removing the pump from the grey car. Hopefully I can get some more life out of the existing pump in the grey car. If I find it does need a complete reseal, I'll have to figure out a way to get the other pump into the grey car and timed while that's done. If I were to send the pump to Canada for a reseal, does anyone know what I'll have to deal with duty wise? I know under NAFTA there is no duty on goods manufactured in the US or Canada going back and forth, but there is on something manufactured in Germany even if it is first imported into the US before being sent to Canada or vice versa. Am I going to pay duty on the value of the pump in each direction or just on the value of the seal kit on the way back? Usually Google is my friend, but I can't find anything that clearly answers this, or for than matter, tells me who I can contact for a good answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 AFAIK customs is typically paid by the receiver...of course, if you are sending a part to a company for service, they will add the custom cost to your overall fee. i've heard that in canada, it's typically 10% of declared value, but i can't verify this. i've sent a bunch of stuff to ikenna in nigeria, and i've never had to pay any separate customs fee...the shipping is expensive, but my receipt always lists only one fee, for shipping (and nothing else). when you send a package out of the country, there is a customs declaration form that you fill out...there is a basic version that is pretty short, and a longer version that is less so. it's based on the value of the item and/or the weight (sorry, don't know what the cutoff is). you are going to want to declare as low a value for the item as you think you can get away with...for a busted old pump, i would declare it at US$20 or so if it was me...who's to argue? i've also heard that, if you check the "gift" box (i.e., indicate that the item you are sending is a gift), that the custom fees paid by the recipient are lower or nonexistent...but i can't confirm this. i do know that customs fees for items coming into the US are virtually nonexistent on the type of stuff we buy for our cars...i've bought lots of peugeot parts from international sellers and i've never had to pay customs on anything. sorry this is so random, hope it helps andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Well that gives me some thought on where to look. I think I should talk to customer service at UPS or FedEx. They should be able to give me the information. Of course I'm still hoping maybe I can get away without a complete reseal at least for a while. I have neither time nor money to spare right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Hi Dave, The problem I have with just replacing a single seal is that all the seals are the same age, so the chances of other seals following are pretty high. Timing of the pump can be done by ear, and some argue that they are best set by ear since it takes into consideration the whole system rather than just the pump. IE The injector pop pressures Sending the part for repairs in Canada should be duty exempt, but not positive as I understand sending stuff as warranty is also duty exempt. Value has to be declared, but I would specifically look for info on sending parts for repairs. I know I can bring a car into Canada for repairs without the importing or duty hassles. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 My inclination would always be to fix it right as well, but this is not a good time for me to do more than I absolutely need to, so if an O-ring might buy me a year, I think I'd go that route right now. If it's showing any signs of other leaks, then I would have little choice but to bite the bullet. If I do have to send it off, that's when the timing becomes an issue as I would want to put the pump from the blue car into the grey car while it's pump was out for repair. I can mark the one that came out of the grey car for re-installation, but will I be able to put the other one in just guessing and have it run in order to adjust it by ear. What am I listening for when adjusting it by ear? Just smooth running? I guess after having Peugeot diesels for nearly 40 years, I know the sound, but I've never tried to adjust them that way. I guess after I mark the grey one I can fiddle with adjusting it and listen to it before I remove it so I have an idea what to listen for when I install the other one. The biggest question would be how close do I need to be to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 I knew nothing of diesels when I bought my TD - so it just looked odd that the injection pump shock so violently - but it sounded ok. Previous owner sounds like he had a fair bit of diesel knowledge as a long time MB diesel owner. Jumped into the car and drove it 8hrs back to Regina. It got 42 mpg IMP. After sorting out my wiring (wire to the fuel solenoid shorted against the throttle cable and burned back to the ignition switch), I thought I should see why the pump shook so much. It was completely loose, missing 2 of the 3 bolt entirely. Blew me away that the engine ran as good as it does with the pump timing completely inaccurate. So if you mark the pump location and swap pumps you should be fine... Timing by ear I've heard is to advance the pump timing until the diesel clatter is quite distinct, and then back it off so that it sounds nice. I don't have enough experience to know myself as this is the only diesel I've really worked on, but the absolute best way I've heard is to tune the pump timing on a dyno which is the plan once I get all the new parts installed. Totally understand the financial situation, so what you might want to do is pull the blue cars IP, do the easy external seals, and install that one - that way you have the low mile grey one that you can reseal at your leisure or when you are able. If you do end up sending the pump later - I'd suggest contacting Canada and US customs direct. I wouldn't trust any of the courier companies for any info at all. Key point is that the part is being repaired and returned - so I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it. Highly recommend sending USPS as well - Couriers are not fun to deal with cross border shipping. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted December 6, 2012 Report Share Posted December 6, 2012 Timing by ear I've heard is to advance the pump timing until the diesel clatter is quite distinct, and then back it off so that it sounds nice. i assume "nice" is a relative term here, since we're talking about diesels... If you do end up sending the pump later - I'd suggest contacting Canada and US customs direct. I wouldn't trust any of the courier companies for any info at all. Key point is that the part is being repaired and returned - so I'm pretty sure there's a way to do it. Highly recommend sending USPS as well - Couriers are not fun to deal with cross border shipping. this, this, a million times this. also -- in the last few years, fedex and ups have gotten really expensive; maybe this happened when DHL cut back its operations, i'm not sure. i have found the USPS to be very reliable and lots cheaper. they are running a bit slow right now, what with the coming holidays, but the private carriers are as well... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 in the last few years, fedex and ups have gotten really expensive; maybe this happened when DHL cut back its operations, i'm not sure. i have found the USPS to be very reliable and lots cheaper. they are running a bit slow right now, what with the coming holidays, but the private carriers are as well... In most cases I have found UPS to be the most expensive. For bulky or heavy items I've found FedEx ground is often dramatically cheaper than either USPS or UPS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 I saw an interesting video on YouTube about leaky injector pumps resulting from ULS diesel. He states that ULS diesel shrinks the seals while biodiesel makes them swell. So he had a car that had been running on B99. The owner took a trip, used ULS diesel, and came in with a leaky injector pump. He ran B99 through it for about 10 minutes and the leak stopped. I don't have a source for B99 and that wouldn't be something I could use consistently even if it did work, but it got me thinking about possibly buying some time if I could counteract the seal shrinkage caused by the ULS diesel. I had been generally using Diesel Kleen additive. This last tank I used Red Line Diesel Fuel Catalyst at the higher "cleaning" concentration, after reading in the application notes "Lubricates O-rings and seals to increase injector pump life". Where there was previously a steady drip, there is now a very slight weeping. I can see a little moistness on the block below the pump but there no longer seems to be anything dripping off the bottom of the engine. There's still no doubt that the permanent solution is a reseal, but maybe I can buy my self a little time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted December 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2012 Back to my alternator. After a few days with the Bosch alternator, the belt started slipping. I tightened it but it seemed like it was at the end of it's range and soon started slipping again. On closer inspection I found that the alternator was up against the battery support making it impossible to get it any tighter. When I switched from the PARIS RHONE that Joe had put in, I thought the easiest way would be to put the belt on before putting the bolt in the adjustment bracket, but it seemed too tight and I couldn't get the bolt in. I compared the belt with the one in my blue car from which this alternator came, and found the one from the blue car was a little longer and I used that one. Since Joe had to modify his bracket to get the PR alternator to fit and said he could only get it "just so tight" I assumed he might have also substituted a smaller belt. Yesterday I compared the numbers and found that the belt from the blue car was larger than OEM and the one that came with the grey car matched the OEM size. It seemed kind of worn, probably from slipping. I got a new OEM size belt which allowed me to get proper tension with the alternator in the middle of it's adjustment range. Hopefully I'm done with alternator troubles for a long while now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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