1985 TD Sedan

[Bean]

It was the same thing with me, after I saw how good it worked on my bike, I had a bugger of a time to replace the can when it ran out.

Couldn't find it up here anywhere, or anything even close, so when I found it by the case I just bought it.

If I can figure out how to send it, I'd offer to send you a can, but its a bugger to ship. I had it delivered to a US adrsress and picked it up as you can't ship volatile stuff easily.

Rabin

[tulaweb]

If I can figure out how to send it, I'd offer to send you a can, but its a bugger to ship. I had it delivered to a US adrsress and picked it up as you can't ship volatile stuff easily.

Is it shipping across the boarder that's the problem or is it a problem to ship within Canada? It won't be till January, but I'll be in Quebec for a week.

[Bean]

Across the border is the big issue as packages are usually inspected. Sending within Canada however should be no problem... (I don't think!)

Rabin

[tulaweb]

Sending within Canada however should be no problem... (I don't think!)

If I don't find it before I go skiing in Canada, maybe I could purchase a can or two from you and have it shipped to me on your side of the border while I'm there. I lead a group from our ski club every year to the same place and I'm sure the group manager at the resort would hold it for me, if shipped to her attention a week or two before I arrive. Unless there are several stateside people who want to split a case with me, I can't see what I would do with a case of it. I'm not maintaining a whole fleet of Peugeots like some people.

[tulaweb]

I have the parts car, from which I took the engine, parked about 30 miles from me. Yesterday I spent the afternoon removing stuff. I primarily wanted to get the windshield washer pump and the satellite radio. Getting the latter and it's antenna. required stripping a lot of interior parts, which I want to do anyway. The carpeting is also high on my list of things I will want. I doubt I'll get that into my daily driver before spring, but I want to get it out of the parts car and into a dry place before winter. I also took the cruse control ECU and one of the interior rear side trim pieces (I forget what they're called). I found a lot of ants in the parts car so I'll need to bring some insecticide on my next visit.

[tulaweb]

If you've been following my saga with switching the engine, you may recall that when I got it back with the new(ish) engine, the two things that weren't right were the Tach didn't work and the EGR system was working extremely wrong. I temporarily resolved the EGR problem by clamping off the vacuum hose to the EGR valve so it didn't work at all, and of course the car ran fine. I've fiddled with the tach from time to time, checking the adjustment on the TDC sensor, cleaning up the ground connection etc., but I hadn't made any progress other than to rule various things out. While I was down at the parts car the other day, I took the TDC sensor off the old engine. I was really thinking that perhaps the sensor for the automatic was different from the one on the 5 speed, though I pretty much thought I knew they were the same other than adjusting them to different depths. When I went to swap it in, I realized from the connector on the wire end, and the length of the wire, that they had reversed the sensor from the top of the bell hosing with the one on the side. Since the one on the top contributes to controlling the EGR system and has a 2 wire connector and the one on the side provides the signal for the Tach, and has a three wire connector, the relationship between the two symptoms and this misconfiguration suddenly became clear. Sure enough with the sensors in their correct locations and the vacuum hose reconnected both systems are working properly again.

[andrethx]

sweet! nice fix.

[JunktionFET]

"Crusty" lives on!!! That's awesome Dave

[Bean]

Great find Dave! Sure is nice when the fixes are that nice!

Rabin

[tulaweb]

A couple of weeks ago the transmission seemed to be a little hard shifting. I opened the filler plug and found it full, but the 500ml or so of oil that I drained looked very odd. It had a funny color and seemed like it might have water in it. I topped it back off with new oil I had left over from the last change, as I didn't have enough oil to change it right then. I got the Red Line MT-90 that I have been using and changed it a day or two later. I sent a sample off to Blackstone for analysis, and found that it did indeed have a lot of water, a massive amount of solids, and quite a bit of iron and aluminum in it.
http://www.tulaweb.net/images/Car/BLUE PEUGEOT-110113.pdf
The last time I had changed the transmission oil was shortly before I hydrolocked the engine, so the car was out of service for most of that time. It did go through Hurricane Sandy where it was sitting up to the bottom of the doors in Salt water for a few hours, but I'm not sure how that water would find it's way into the transmission. After discussing my results with the person who wrote the report, I think my plan is to change the trans oil again now (a few hundred miles since the change from which this sample was taken), to be sure I've flushed out any remaining contaminates, and then send in a sample after about another 2,000 miles.

[tulaweb]

As I look at that report some more, the high sodium content seems like it would be consistent with contamination from the salt water of Hurricane Sandy. It was definitely exposed to that, but how would it get inside the transmission? I don't seem to be loosing any oil so it seems like the seals are intact. Any Ideas? Maybe I'm not understanding the anatomy of the transmission correctly.

[Bean]

I would think the water either entered through the transmission vent on top, or it had to come in through one of the seals.

Was the engine in the car and tranny wasn't hanging low? Any chance water was higher than it showed?

If I were you I'd inspect the torque tube to insure no water was in there, as well as your diff. I would also look at doing a "rinse" with regular oil first to make sure its all good and healthy before putting in the redline.

Rabin

[tulaweb]

It seems like if it could get in through one of the seals, then oil would be getting out through the same seal(s). I was evacuated when the water actually came up, so I only know where the debris mark is on the side of the car and it's just a little less than half way up the bumpers. Of course there was a hurricane going on, so no doubt the water was rather turbulent. The old seized engine was in it at the time.

I changed the differential oil a few weeks before this transmission sample and it didn't look odd. I didn't keep a sample of that.

I already changed the transmission oil with redline a few weeks ago when I took this sample, so I'm now figuring that's my "rinse" and now I'll change it again and run that for a while before sending in another sample. Do you think I should run some regular oil in it now for a little while as another "rinse" before going back to the redline?

What would I do to check the torque tube? If this really was hurricane water we're going back a little over a year.

When the hurricane was approaching we put our Honda on high ground but since I didn't have a working engine in this car at the time the best I could do was push it to the highest end of the parking lot. We evacuated in the other Peugeot. I know the other end of the lot was waist deep but I don't think the water made it up much past the bottom of the doors in this location. The carpeting was damp but there was no standing water inside. Here is what I found the day after the storm when I came back.

[Bean]

It just occurred to me that the water may have gotten in through where the shift arms for the transmission go through the case. Pretty sure there's no seal on them, and tolerances might be tight enough to keep oil from leaking but water could likely go in.

Makes more sense than it going by the seals anyway.

Tough call on what to do with the oil... I'd drain it into a clean pan and inspect it, if you see some water, I'd replace it. If you can't, then you can run it through some sort of cloth filter and reuse it. I thought the tranny took closer to 2 litres though, so if its less then its not really worth the effort.

Rather than running more oil as an additional rinse, you might want to use something like varsol to actually clean it out the inside, then drain it, and refill with more redline. Reason for using varsol is it will drain much faster than oil and it will tend to dissolve and wash out better.

Don't drive the car of course, but firing it up with the rear tires in the air (start it in 4th gear)while its full of varsol very briefly should stir it up good as well as giving the gear clusters a wash, then drain immediately. This last part about starting the car was just an idea, so feel free to ignore!

BTW - did you make sure to drain from both drain plugs? Pretty sure there's a drain plug on the 5sp housing as well as the main body.

Rabin

[tulaweb]

I'm not going to reuse what's in it now. Even RedLine is cheap compared to a transmission. I'm not aware of a second drain plug. I only know about one drain and one filler plug. Based on the amount of oil I drain out and the amount I refill it with, I'm pretty sure I'm getting it all, but if you or someone else can tell me where I should be looking for another drain, I certainly don't want to miss any of that ickie stuff in there. This is a BA10-5. I don't think I can get Varsol around here anymore, at least in consumer quantities. I guess Mineral Spirits would be approximately the same thing. I think if I did that, I'd feel like I'd need to do an oil rinse afterwards to be sure it wasn't diluted with the Varsol. Unless what I drain out now looks bad, I think I'll just change it with my regular redline and perhaps send a sample for analysis after another 500 miles or so. I won't change it at that point unless the analysis says it's still contaminated. If what I drain out now looks funny, then I'll rethink that plan a little.

[andrethx]

iirc the difference between varsol and mineral spirits is that varsol has a different boiling point, which you don't care about for cleaning out your transmission. varsol is also relatively low in sulphur and other contaminants relative to regular mineral spirits, which is why varsol is used to clean and degrease stuff -- it leaves less residue than many other products. i've read that there are newer formulations sold under different trade names that have fewer volatile compounds in them, although i haven't looked for them.

as a complete aside -- gun enthusiasts use a cleaning mixture commonly known as "ed's red" as a bore cleaner (i.e., to clean out rifle bores)...it contains ATF and varsol/mineral spirits, among other things (you can google it to get recipes). i've also heard of people using it to clean car parts, although i've never heard of anyone using it to flush transmissions...

andré

[tulaweb]

I was able to start the car this morning at 7°F (-14°C ) despite the fact that I have not yet gotten around to putting the block heater in this engine. Although it ran a bit rough for a minute or so, it actually started relatively easily. The last time it was this cold, a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't start it at all for several days. The difference this time was that I put some winter additive in the fuel. Of course they do sell a different formulation of fuel in the winter, but I guess in this area they don't count on it getting all that cold. I suspect that without me putting the winter additive in it, the fuel was about the consistency of tooth paste. As Rabin and I have previously discussed, The coolant passes through a heat exchanger, in the fuel filter, to warm the fuel, but that is of no use until the coolant gets warmed up.

[tulaweb]

A few days ago I put the key in the ignition and when I turned it, the key snapped off. I've been driving it like that by using another key to open the door and the stub to turn the ignition on or off. I tried to fish it out with some bent paper clips and a dental pick but couldn't get it. Today I took it to a locksmith. It took him about 10 minutes to fish the broken part out of the cylinder. I had him make me a new copy from one of the original keys that came with the car and the total bill was $10. I don't know how much of that was for the extraction and how much for the duplicate key but I think it was money well spent.

[tulaweb]

I guess it's time to bring this thread up to date.

Once I started adding that winter additive I had no more trouble with starting for the rest of the winter.

You may recall last fall I had a bearing noise shortly before I was going on an 800 mile trip. It was raining and I have no place to work indoors so I took the car to a local shop who had done some Peugeot work in the past. I had some brake parts on hand that I was going to install when I got time, and since I was going on this trip and they would be taking that apart anyway I asked them to do it while they were at it, so I got rotors calipers and pads changed at the same time. They found the left front bearing nut was a little loose and the threads on the stub were a little buggered up. They said the bearings were OK, just a little loose, and they felt that with a new nut it would be OK. Since they were taking it apart and I gave them a new set of bearings and a new seal they used them. After a couple of thousand miles I started hearing the bearing noise again. I assumed that it was the left front bearing again because of the questionable threads. I took the tire off to have a look and found that they had left the dust cap off, but the nut was holding in place OK. So I cleaned and repacked those bearings and put a dust cap from my parts car on. I checked that the dust cap was on the other side. I soon heard the noise again, and still suspecting the problem one, on the driver's side, checked there first, but couldn't find anything wrong. So I finally got around to checking the passenger side. As soon as I got the wheel off the ground I could see it was all floppy, and when I took the dust cap off, I found there was nothing but some shavings left of the outer bearing. I had a hell of a time getting the race off the stub. I don't know if they put the nut on with an air wrench, didn't pack it adequately, or what happened, but what a difference new bearings, installed gently, makes. Guess where I won't be getting any more work done.

Now finally up to date, I changed my transmission oil this week, about 4,000 miles after flushing hurricane Sandy out of it, and have sent off a sample for analysis.

[Bean]

Thanks for the update Dave!

Hearing reports like yours, others, and previous personal experiences have made me such a fanatic about doing my own work... Glad to hear you've got it sorted now - and curious how the analysis comes back.

Rabin

[tulaweb]

Hearing reports like yours, others, and previous personal experiences have made me such a fanatic about doing my own work... Glad to hear you've got it sorted now - and curious how the analysis comes back.

I do try to do my own work, but with no garage, there are some things that are pretty tough, and in this case even though it was something I would be able to do, I needed to get the work done before I drove to New Hampshire, and doing it outdoors in the rain seemed impractical. Who'd of thought that a professional mechanic could screw up a relatively simple job like that so badly. There are a lot of things on a Peugeot that are unusual but I don't think there was anything unusual about this. The rear calipers are something I wouldn't let them do, but the front are pretty ordinary, and indeed they didn't mess up that part of the job. But wheel bearings, what mechanic wouldn't know how to do that right?

[Bean]

Sorry Dave - didn't mean to infer that having the car worked on was in any way an issue. I've been in similar situations where it just makes more sense to have the work done. Saves time, effort and often simply makes the most sense.

My point was just emphasized by your story - simple job that should be easy as pie is still screwed up... I'd guess that the mechanic didn't even do it, but rather an apprentice of some sort.

Rabin

[tulaweb]

Yesterday I put in a new Clutch Slave Cylinder, changed the fuel filter and greased the torque tube center bearing. The Clutch Slave Cylinder was dripping just a very small amount of fluid and the clutch was engaging/disengaging at an unusually low point on the pedal. Sometimes I would have to pump the pedal a couple of times in the morning to get it to fully disengage, but after that it would work OK. The clutch pedal is a little better but it's still a little low. With the recent talk about clutch master cylinders on the Facebook group lately, I wonder if I should change it too. I don't see any obvious sign of it leaking, though I haven't pulled up the carpeting and looked there. I don't remember ever changing the clutch master cylinder on this or any other of the Peugeots I've had, though the slave seems to be a fairly common failure, more so with the 504s than the 505s (at least mine). In the past, for me, when the Clutch Slave Cylinder went, it has been a complete failure. It stops working entirely with little or no advance warning and leaks profusely. The combination of the low pedal and improvement after pumping it a few times certainly seems to me like a hydraulic issue. In the discussion on Facebook, people were saying how they had to "unscrew the brake vacuum unit " or "cut a hole behind the front left wheel". It seemed to me that with the battery and battery tray out, it was fairly accessible, but never having done it, maybe my memory is faulty.

[JunktionFET]

It's a hassle, but I've been able to replace the clutch master on any 505 without removing the brake hardware or cutting any holes. Just have to have flexible fingers and a good feel. Oh and tons of patience!

Many years ago a friend with an '88 Turbo complained that his clutch was too low and he had a mysterious loss of fluid from the brake reservoir. In a completely unrelated complaint, I remember him mentioning this weird white frothy stuff that would come up through the carpeting on the driver's side, especially if his shoes were wet. Heh... brake fluid was seeping from the master cylinder, behind the carpeting and sound padding, and then soaking up through the carpet and mixing with the water from his shoes. Man, when I got in there to replace the master, that carpeting and padding was just f'n gross!

[tulaweb]

I'm not losing any noticeable amount of brake fluid. As far as I know my only symptom is the low clutch pedal which improves a little with a couple of pumps. Having replaced the slave, the master seems like the only other thing. There was a very slight weep from the slave but I doubt it would have amounted to more than a tablespoon a month. To the best of my recollection the master is original.