berttreb Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 Peugeot 505 GTI Model 1984 Engine capcity 2165cm3 Cylinders 4 (OHC) Steering Steering wheel on right hand side Rack & Pinion (power assisted) Ratio:1 17,0:1 Turning Circle 11,3m Turns lock to lock 3.5 Hi, I recently drove through a pothole which damaged the steering. The result: -front left wheel (passanger side), was pushed backwards -left fender was dented and -left side of the bonnet closes with difficulty. To drive straight I had to hold the steering wheel +/- 20degrees clockwise (the car was pulling to the left). I continued using the car for over 3000km without any problems, and apart from the fact that I had to hold the steering wheel turned to go straight, I felt no difference. When I took the car to a mechanic, he replaced various parts on the right(!) front side (ball joint, rod, bushes, steering coupling). The mechanic said that there was no damage on the left side. Although I had the impression he forgot what I told him, and simply had the steering parts on the right side replaced without examining the car. Questions 1. Is it possible that the right side was damaged and the left side needed no repairs (given that the left front wheel was pushed back, the left fender is dented and the bonnet doesn't close easily on the left side) ? 2. Could the pothole only have messed-up the alignment and not damaged anything (apart from the fender and bonnet) ? (Perhaps the damage the mechanic fixed was due to old age of the car) 3. Visibly I cannot see any damage on the left side. Is there a simple test I can do to determine if there is damage on the left side? I'm trying to determine if the mechanic made a mistake and was too scared to admit it. And if the car is safe (I did drive it briefly and everything seems fine) Thanks in advance. Kind regards Loic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 i'm sure others can comment intelligibly on the mechanics of the situation (that must have been some pothole!)...as for the "what do i do now?" question: if it was me, i'd carefully drive my car to an empty parking lot and wring the car out, being sure to use the steering in lots of different maneuvers (donuts, slalom, etc.). the weekend is coming up, so you should be able to find an empty parking lot somewhere. see if the car feels different from the last time you did donuts in a parking lot... alternately/additionally, you could take it to another mechanic for a second opinion, you can probably find someone who will inspect the steering for a bit a shop time... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohms Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 i second the "taking car to a 2nd mechanic" thing. Heres a list of mechanics who know their way around peugeots http://myplace.frontier.com/~peugeot/mechanics as for donuts and rockfords....im all for those! but he may make something worse if the suspension is in bad shape already. i'm sure others can comment intelligibly on the mechanics of the situation (that must have been some pothole!)...as for the "what do i do now?" question: if it was me, i'd carefully drive my car to an empty parking lot and wring the car out, being sure to use the steering in lots of different maneuvers (donuts, slalom, etc.). the weekend is coming up, so you should be able to find an empty parking lot somewhere. see if the car feels different from the last time you did donuts in a parking lot... alternately/additionally, you could take it to another mechanic for a second opinion, you can probably find someone who will inspect the steering for a bit a shop time... andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 18, 2011 Report Share Posted November 18, 2011 hmmm...maybe the suggestion that he go stunt-driving was a bit much... put another way, he should go someplace where he can test-drive his car without fear of breaking something or killing someone (including himself) if the steering fails...probably best to start out gently and increase the hoonage gradually.... but you're right, omar, getting a second opinion is probably the best/safest idea. as for the list, that's US/canada peugeot mechanics...i believe bert is coming from somewhere else (south africa?).... andré ps -- loic -- "rockfords" are also known as j-turns.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Best is to just post the results of the wheel alignment they did. If the caster, camber and toe are in spec then the location of the wheels should be fine. Any chance you can show pictures of the damage? There really isn't a way for the wheel to have impacted the fender or the hood, but maybe the wheel dropped into the hole and the body hit the pot hole direct? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berttreb Posted November 20, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Hi, thanks everyone for the replies. I've attached the alignment results. They're bad. Nothing is within range and I think they did the alignment for the wrong car. I've done some measuring. The driver front wheel (right) is about 8cm from the mud guard. The passenger front wheel (left) is 5cm from the mud guard. So pushed back about 3cm. I also looked at the steering rods and saw nothing bent. I did some driving. I felt no differences. However I did notice that the indicator sometimes does not cancel when turning right. I think the mechanic simply took off the steering wheel, turned it 20 degress anticlockwise, and voila alignment done! Regards Loic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Wow Loic - all they did was set the toe in spec, the rest of the specs - especially caster is way out on the left side like you verified with measurements. The only way to get that kind of caster would be to totally deform the mount on the lower control arm that mounts at the front of the car under the rad on the left side. Either there, or where that arm connects to the other lower control arm that connects to the engine cross member. If you compare from side to side you should hopefully see some differences. If not - then then I would check the chassis to make sure the suspension points themselves didn't move... Come to think of it - suspension points moving would explain your panel damage. A frame straightener should be able to pull it back into position, and that should correct the panels as well if that's the case. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 20, 2011 Report Share Posted November 20, 2011 Forgot to add - the signal canceling mechanism isn't really going to be affected by the alignment. It's also very doubtful they pulled the steering wheel as well as you usually center the wheel in the car, then adjust the tie rods until the toe adjustment is in spec. It does look like they did the toe, but caster and camber on these cars are not adjustable - so the only way to get them correct is to replace bent arms - or put it on a frame machine and ensure all is OK That must have been quite the pot hole, as these cars are legendary for strength and ability to withstand huge impacts without much trouble at all. Does your car have substantial rust or anything that may have weakened the chassis? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berttreb Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hi Rabin, thanks for the reply. No, I don't think the car has substantial rust. Yes, it was quite a pot hole, especially as the road before it was very good and I was traveling fairly fast (+/- 100km/h). I'll talk to the mechanic. Regards Loic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berttreb Posted November 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 ...oooh perhaps I spoke to soon... Turns out the chassis leg on the passenger side is bent and rusted and has been repaired before by the previous owner. Looks like it's kittens for the car. I guess it wasn't one monster pothole (that was just the straw the broke the camels back) but all the potholes. I only wish the mechanic could have examined the car thoroughly before doing useless repairs and charging me a fortune! Thanks again for everyone's comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted November 24, 2011 Report Share Posted November 24, 2011 sorry to hear about that, bert...it's always sad when a peugeot goes to that great scrapyard in the sky. it sucks about the money you spent with the mechanic, hopefully you can salvage the new parts and other parts from the car and re-use them yourself on another car or sell them to other owners, so that your car won't have died in vain. did you have this car for long? any other peugeots? i would love to hear about your car(s), i'm sure others here would as well. andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 It is indeed sad. The only positive being that if you can manage it - it would be a great parts car for another 505 that's in even better shape. Terrible that I can guess the issue just by seeing the alignment report and the mechanic that worked on the car either didn't see it, or tried to just pass it off as OK. (I would wager that he knew as soon as he aligned it and didn't say anything - otherwise he really was quite dim.) Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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