Bean

Yes - it controls everything! Fuel, ignition, boost, cooling fans, cruise control, uses a detonation sensor to retard timing on knock, AC compressor, charging system, fuel pump and that's how far I've gotten so far. I'm hoping to merge as many existing systems into the ECU control since it also manages the instumentation binacle in the Dodges. So I need to splice into the existing systems so that it's an integrated install. (IE The check engine light will now be the little yellow LED on the dash) If it goes to plan - the car will look and function like a production car. Sadly mapping it on a dyno isn't possible since we don't have a dyno in my city. So I'll likely do most of my tuning on the track. We have test and tunes with my car club where we rent a track all day. Hardly anyone uses this - so you essentially get an open track for as long as you want. It's not very big at 0.9 KM - but it's enough to run the car through it's range underl load. I'll be using a WBO2 initially just to see what it's like out of the box, then using EGT once I start tuning the built motor to dial it in. I've been really impressed with this stock MAP based ECU, and if it allows me to tune this motor like a stand alone ECU - this should be a VERY potent combo. Tuned Turbo Dodges can hit 300 FWHP quite easily - but are hampered by a poor head that has crappy flow. Let it control the N9TE and it should really be able to shine. August's head flow numbers exceeded the numbers my buddy had for his "stage 3" head by a huge margin - so I'm sure there is a lot of potential in these engines. Rabin

I really like that install Bill - very slick. Did you get a chance to check the turbo shaft for play? Sounds like she's running pretty good though... Just noticed in the pic - the plug wires are zipped together - that's kind of a no-no. There's a couple trick ways to use zip ties to tie them together but keep them separate, or you can just use those plastic clips... (I'll take pics of the zip tie way - words just won't do it justice!) Rabin

yep - it's essentially free for me since I'll be getting the parts from friends. The high resolution is because it's a factory ECU that was hacked. It's already filled - so if any changes need to be made it will just be to a targertted area. If say I run different injectors then the entire table can simply be scaled. I've seen a Pectel stand alone ECU tuned when working on a Ford RS200 - and the resolution that was available was astounding - so I know the good stand alones do have a lot of resolution for fine tuning. As for having multiple maps - I can think of a lot of reasons to have multiple maps - the biggest that comes to mind is fuel. Running race fuel at the track would allow you to run a much different map for max power. Same thing for running regular if you wanted to save $$$ or needed to in certain areas. I think it would also be handy for testing purposes if you were trying different things out. As for the gains - I can believe it quite easily on a turbo motor (it controls boost as well right - so that's just a few psi). I don't have the need or the inclination to prove it though as I don't really care. I want the ability to customize the engine parameters - so what it does stock is just a bonus. I will have my 86' running the stock system, and the 85 running the Dodge ECU - so I'll try to do some back to back g-Tech tests just for fun if it all works as planned. Rabin

The ECU needs to be taken apart, the stock chip de-soldered and then socketted. Once that's done you use a chip burner to burn new calibrations to it. There's also a way to install a chip that can be reflashed on the board via a cable that's installed. Not sure if I want to go that far though. Changing chips is easy enough. A couple guys have installed larger memory chips, and then stored multiple maps that can be switched from one to another with the cruise control on/off input on the ECU. Tuning is done by changing the values in the storage bins. So it's not intuitive or graphical like MS - but it's really well documented so it shouldn't be too hard to figure out. You can change the parameters for the size of injectors via scaling, the map sensor amount, and you can change the timing curves. It's got incredible resolution - MUCH higher than MS (100x100 grid or something crazy like that) and it's been used extensively on the 2.2L and the 2.5L engines - so I should be able to use stock maps already available as a start. The ECU also controls the cooling fans, boost, and like I mentioned before - also has safe guards to prevent max boost when cold. Guys that have used this ECU on Ford 2.3 Turbo engines gained close to 50 HP without doing any tuning at all! So I'm pretty sure with some tuning it should really open the possibilities up on a stock motor, and help realize some really impressive numbers on a built engine. Rabin

That IC is huge - and if you make it double that will be some pretty crazy cooling! If you want to look at repairing that tank - you might be able to find a body shop that uses a product similar to Lords Fusor #152. I'm using this stuff to fix the ABS fairings on my motorcycle and it's amazing stuff. Bonds REALLY well, and when sanding it - you can't tell the difference between the existing black ABS and this stuff. Going double works too - but fixing this would allow you to install and use it till then. So are going to be using MS to control the electrovalve? Should be a neat project for sure! I'm meeting my friend with the turbo dodge's tonight to pick up the parts for the ECU swap on the Peugeot. I have an 85 Turbo that has some sort of electronic glitch and it won't fire - so the plan is to use it as a guinea pig for the install. If it works - I'll continue to use it to practice tuning the ECU to see if it's worth the effort. That way if I blow it up it's not a big deal. The TD ECU controls the boost electronically as well - even has provisions to limit boost till a certain engine temp is reached... Should be a busy summer for sure! Rabin

Sounds like a plan for the grey beast... Sucks about the Mi-16 though... I've been thinking about that car a fair bit this last while - if I was closer I think I'd snag that car before the beast - I think a motor swap with a VW 1.8T powertrain would make for a sweet ride. The small block chevy of the VW world has a TON of tuning potential, makes fantastic power for cheap, and they're abundant. Pretty sure they sit the same way as the Pug engine/tranny (Honda's sit the opposite way) - so it shouldn't take much fab to fit it. Be hella fun too with 250 HP for cheap. Rabin

Damn - that's too bad! Yet another steal of a deal too far away. Hopefully it gets fixed - but even if it got parted out it would at least help save some other runners... (IE - the head would get Trevor's back in shape if that's what his needed - not to mention the rare ABS rotors it has on it as well...) Rabin

coals = brushes It sounds like everything is running properly, and the altenator sounds fine if it's outputting that. Is the battery OK? What about connections and grounds for the battery and altenator? I'd pull the battery negative cable while it's running to see if the car continues to run... If it does then the charging circuit should be fine. I've also planned to rid my car of the AC - even had the system properly evacuated of all freon just in case. Loses a lot of weight - plus leaves more room for the FMIC... Hopefully this summer has lots of progress on all our 505's! Can't wait to see how it pans out for all of us - especially me since I'm finally going to be wrenching on mine! Rabin

308 GTB rally car... Koll posted about these guys a while back when they restored a Toyota rally car... Now they've done a Ferrari... WOW... Rabin

Well - I'm going in on the cheap with stock strut internals (the glorious 8 valve units that hardly have an equal in the aftermarket), with custom threaded coil over tubes and springs... If you want custom Bilstein 40mm struts built - he can do that too - but likely ~$500 each. With the way I'm planning it - I can upgrade to the fancy custom units later if I want since they'll mount the exact same way. I talked to him for a good hour, and it looks like he'll just be providing me the bits to build my own, if he can get what he needs from looking at the 505 there, and the dimensions I can provide to him. That'll save a whack on shipping and still allow me enough leeway to build them to the ideal dimensions for the chassis. (I have connections through buddies and such, so any additional machining and welding won't be a problem.) Hopefully the Pug dimensions are close to the Volvo's and the existing parts fit without an issue. So the mod should be easy on the budget with me doing the assembly. I've got both an ABS style front suspension (standard hub and strut), and the non ABS 1 pc hub/strut assembly - so I'll be looking at both to figure out what is going to be best use, or even a combination of the two.(IE like the one piece lower a-arm with the modded 1 pc hub/strut units.). The deciding factor is the mounting of the 540 hubs though - whatever is easiest wins. It's definitely a full meal deal though - Suspension, wheels, and brakes have to get done all at once for this to work and be cost effective. Lots of changes so the planning for it has to be really thorough. Payoff should be fantastic if it comes together. BTW - if I feel the brakes need to be better for the track - the 302's will move to the rear along with smaller 4 piston calipers, and the 324's can be fitted to the front. I can't imagine needing more brakes than that even on a race track Rabin

If I didn't live some damn far away from all the good deals it'd be tempting for sure! But I do live too far away - and my money is far better spent modding the current ride... I personally think you're MUCH better off pulling the head and fixing the issue first. Not sure if you've seen my posts on getting Cometic head gaskets for our cars - but I'm quite certain they'd be on par with the best since they have a REALLY good rep in every circle I've seen them. (Rally, bikes, race, etc etc) Most of the HG I've seen have been utter crap for this motor - so I'm hoping the Cometic ones are much better. If it is the head - they can be found relatively cheap - and I'm sure you'd be able to do the swap in a day/weekend since it was recently apart and you know your way around the motor. If you were to keep it - getting some head studs spec'd out will likely go a long way in helping it stay together better. I hit the wall myself with this stupid Subaru Legacy I bought to flip, ended up spending WAY too much on parts, and had to rip into the motor three times (major engine work) - the last to do head gaskets... Took a while for the hate to subside - but it's been a daily driver for 40000 KM and his been utterly reliable since. So fix it, fix it right, and then either enjoy it as a toy to really hammer on (I bet the M3 doesn't get hammered on just yet) or sell it for decent coin as a running driving car. You'll take too big a beating on it selling it broken. Rabin

Update on this project... I've got 540i sealed bearing hubs on their way, along with 540i 302mm vented front rotors. (28mm thick!) Decided the brake balance front and rear would be upset too much running the 324mm rotors (50mm larger than the rear) so I decided that the 302's would be PLENTY of rotor for a 2900 lb car. They stop the 540i very well, as well as my 3800 lb V70R - plus the 324's would be a fair bit heavier. My initial thoughts with running the 540 hubs was that I can mount them farther outwards to get clearance of the strut to avoid the spacer... The more I looked at it though - it would destroy the handling as the scrub radius of the tire would be horrible! I mentioned a guy in Seattle that was building high end Bilstein struts for rally cars, and one of his mods is to separate the one piece struts at the hub, and make it a two piece design with an offset nub like they used on older Ford rally cars. Check it out: This is version 1 This is the new version they did up: So I gave him a call to price out those units. Turns out he's a Peugeot fan from way back (loved his 404), and he's going to bug one of his buddies that just bought an old 505 TD sedan to take a look at the strut. In the mean time I'm going to give him the current strut tube diameter, as well as the internal dimensions of the strut rod and such. My hope is that the tube that passes through the hub assembly isn't used and that we can simply shorten and seal the tube to fit the offset collar. So I'll be doing the offset conversion - but with the stock strut internals in a coil over tube... If this works - then I can fit my 7.5" wide wheel with no problems, wheel offset should then work VERY close to stock geometry and the contact patch should be damn close to rotating about it's centre as it's supposed too... Once I get the 540 bearing hubs I can see about fitting them to the spindle, but if it turns out to be too hard I'll go back to re-drilling the stock hubs since I should now have strut clearance... Rabin

WOW - great link D00zer! Can't read a lick of french - but the pictures were outstanding! Many I've never seen before... Rabin

Hey guys, I was thinking last night about Trevor's gorgeous Mi-16 that had a timing belt failure. It occured to me that for the cost of repair you could easily swap in a VTEC Honda powertrain, SR20DET FWD powertrain - or even a VW TDi to make a hell of a decent car... You'd have the wicked handling of the FWD chassis the 405 is known for - with the reliability of a newer powertrain. Sounds funny - but there's a guy in Regina SK that's quite famous in North America for his outrageous engine swaps that have been in Sport Compact car many times. Some of his achievements include a Northstar FWD V8 powertrain into a VW Golf, an 01 TDi 6-sp into a 1990 Jetta (almost bought that one), and all sorts of Honda engine swaps... Check them out here: CWS Tuning With the availability of engine swap stuff for Honda's - that seems like the ideal swap since it even keep with the spirit of the Mi-16. Just bouncing ideas around - I don't have an Mi-16 and I think there was only ever 1 in all of Saskatchewan. Rabin

I've got 2-3 diffs to play around with so I'll crack a couple open later this summer to see what's possible... Doing a diff swap isn't very hard - so it'd be neat to see if it's possible to build a couple options up. Doing the pinion gear swap is the part I'm most curious about, as I've done gearing swaps in domestic live axle differentials - so I know the basics - just haven't ever cracked a Peugeot diff. Pretty sure the LSD will either be adjusted with spring pressure - or maybe adding more disks. (Heard they were clutch type LSD's) Running Redline 75W90NS in the ice/dirt racing 505 diff seemed to lock it up quite nicely too as the inside tire would scratch the pavement on tight turns, and there were always 2 rooster tails of dirt/ice when it was running an event. Even on pavement it would leave two strips of rubber when launched... Should be pretty cool if I can re-gear it. If it works - I think wheelspin will still be an issue with 5.00 gearing even with running the 8.5x17's back there. (Hoping to run at least 245 series tires on the back) Acceleration should be outstanding though... Rabin

Nice find Koll... Surprised it took you this long to realize you need more than one. The next one will be way easier... Seriously - it's pretty amazing when you think of how much bang for the buck you're getting for $400! Enjoy it - and I can't wait to see the before and after pics (hint hint). Your OCD is legendary - but in a good way for the Peugeot! I hope you can save the blue paint - I find it's one of the nicest colours on the 505 Turbos. So now that you have a DD - what's the agenda for the 87? Rabin

Has anyone had the diff's apart to see if it's possible to change say maybe just the pinion gear? So in the turbo sedan - if you used the pinion gear out of an XN6 5-sp car (9) with the existing ring gear (45) your final drive would be 5.00... Which would be great for slaloms, rally, and track duty. Great reference though - since even without swapping diffs internals I can change my final drive from 3.462 to either 3.889 or 4.11 with diffs I have... I've never been able to confirm the turbo's having an 80% lock up vs the other models that had 40% lock ups - so it'll be interesting to see if anything can be done with the clutch packs to increase the lock up. Rabin

I'd have to disagree with you there Rob... If anyone were to put the time, money, and effort that went into any one of those M3's pictured - the 505 would be every bit as capable on the track... Actually - since it's boosted - it would have a distinct power advantage. (Course the question of "Why would you want too!" comes up immediately!) I'd be curious to hear what the actual road racers have to say though - I'm just going by slalom experience and seeing how other road race cars did at the track. Still comparing apples to oranges, and you'd be somewhat crazy dumping that kind of cash into a 505, since you'd NEVER get anything close to what you had into it. The M3 would hold it's value MUCH better too. But dollar for dollar I'd bet money I can build a faster daily driver/track car out of a 505 Turbo (which is my long term goal). So hopefully I can prove it with some time attack times when it's complete. There are some pretty done up cars that run at the race track in Winnipeg - so I'm hoping I can post some credible times compared to the modern machines... It should also look every bit as good at those M3's which are quite stunning. As for the answer to the question of why? "Because I can... " All it takes is some time, effort and some cash and virtually anything can be made fast - it's just easier when the base car is sound. Interestingly enough - the E30 M3 and the 505's share quite a lot suspension design wise... E30 suspension Rabin

Sounds good Bill! You'll have to give us an update on how it runs. Turbo - Not sure what you mean by whistling, since most turbo's do whistle - a sound I personally like... Best and cheapest thing is to just check the turbo for play in the shaft - and if there isn't any then it's likely a good turbo. The whistling you're hearing might be because of the turbo being better and tighter than the one that was on it - possibly even a different A/R ratio... If you insist on replacing - you're pretty much stuck with the Peugeot exhaust housing unless you're up for major changes. A nice upgrade would be to have it rebuilt and made into a T3/T4 hybrid. If you leave it stock that's fine too and a simple rebuild kit is all that's needed to freshen it up - but again that's only needed if you find play. Rabin

lol - well it damn well better be! The M3 is a lot newer, and was WAY more expensive than the 505 Turbo's ever were. I like the idea of having a nice daily driver (In my case the 00' V70R) and still keeping the 505 Turbo as a play toy. That way it won't see the day to day abuses and I can spend the time to build it up right. So what are the specs on it? Year? Any special mods - or is it bone stock? Rabin

1st - the car doesn't have a stock dump/bypass valve. 2nd - car has VAF - Vane air flow meter. With an automatic you're not going to see a need for one as much as a manual, but it will help if you're taking your foot off the accelerator a lot like in a slalom. Bypass valves are always better since it keeps the air charge in the system, and it helps keep the turbo spooled a tiny bit. Going to atmosphere is mostly for posers... But if you want the sound... Not sure what you're talking about with placement - but it should be mounted as close to the throttle plate as possible, and it should vent back in before the turbo. All this is after the VAF. For advantages - you'd save the turbo from pressure spikes, and boost should recover quick after coming off the throttle. Rabin

Sorry man - mine are all in the cars - plus shipping from SK Canada would be $$$. Why don't you just measure it up and find a rad from another car that will work from a wrecker? Just make sure it's fairly thick, or it already came from a turbo car. Subaru's from the 90's on up might be a decent donor. (I have a 90 Legacy and they look similar - just never actually measured it up. You just need the inlet/outlet to match and then you can make the tranny lines fit. BTW - if and when you get the car started - don't rev the car in park or neutral past 1500 RPM. There was a known flaw in those ZF trannies, so it's a big no-no. If you need to rev it, support it on stands, and rev it in gear. (SUPPORT IT REALLY WELL!!!) If the tranny has already been rebuilt they may have fixed the issue, but I'd still play it safe. As for water in the oil - you have to drain the oil to find out for sure - Oil floats on water so you won't see it on the dipstick - only when you drain it. Especially if it's sat and had time to separate. Rabin

If I were you, and wanted to keep the car - then I'd suggest these guys: Eriksson Industires They're very well known and have a good rep for fixing Peugeot heads. Probably be a bit of coin, but then it would be done right and you wouldn't have to worry about a used head cracking after getting put on. Other option is to find a used head, have it redone, and slap it on. If you go that route though - I'd still think finding a decent running parts car is a good way to go. Then you get doubles of everything you might need, and if you're lucky you can get a 5-sp and swap it in too... Rabin