billbranch Posted July 9, 2006 Report Share Posted July 9, 2006 Hi, Gang, This is a weird one. My old wagon, which had sat for a month without being started, suddenly today will not start. It will fire, but the fuel pump is not running. Probably the strangest thing we diagnosed is that when the ignition switch is in the start position and engages the starter, all of the other circuits go dead. Has anyone experienced anything such as this? Thank you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted July 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 OK, I made progress today. I discovered that the car would spin over. I switched the two black relays near the fuse box, and nothing happened when I turned the key. I cleaned the terminals and installed a new relay of known quality, and the car started. Now: there is no fuel once the car starts. It will idle for five seconds and die. Any suggestions? Oh, and just what are the two black relays for? What about the two yellows? Thanks for any help on this one. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broke Posted July 15, 2006 Report Share Posted July 15, 2006 OK, I made progress today. I discovered that the car would spin over. I switched the two black relays near the fuse box, and nothing happened when I turned the key. I cleaned the terminals and installed a new relay of known quality, and the car started. Now: there is no fuel once the car starts. It will idle for five seconds and die. Any suggestions? Oh, and just what are the two black relays for? What about the two yellows? Thanks for any help on this one. Bill The 2 relays near the fuse box are; for the fuel injection system and the other for the ignition systere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted July 18, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2006 The 2 relays near the fuse box are; for the fuel injection system and the other for the ignition systere OK. Is there a tachymetric relay in the N9Txx, and, if so, where is it located? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broke Posted July 19, 2006 Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 OK. Is there a tachymetric relay in the N9Txx, and, if so, where is it located? Inside next to the steering wheel column OK. Is there a tachymetric relay in the N9Txx, and, if so, where is it located? Inside next to the steering wheel column Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted July 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2006 Inside next to the steering wheel column Inside next to the steering wheel column I'll check it out. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted August 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2006 OK, and as the cop shows say, "Case closed." Some people refer to the ignition and injection relays as the "start" and "stay running" relays, respectively. I also do, now. Two weeks ago, we discovered a very loose connection at the + wire going to the ignition relay. We changed the connector, and then always started, but had no pulse at the injectors. It was a no brainer to me, and today we changed the injection relay, and now the car is "fixed." Thanks to all for their help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 The car starts and the engine runs perfectly now except for a couple of issues: Under the intercooler there's a small black Bosch control unit near the vacuum line junction. If the top of this has been popped off, will it cause any harm? The in-dash boost gauge is not registering. Where would be the logical places to search for causes? I'm also getting a 41 det LED flash. It's a general fault, I think, but maybe related to one of the above? Thanks for any tips. Bil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 19, 2006 Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 For code 4.1 the manual says: "No signal emanating from injection E.C.U." Suggested solutions are: -Check continuity of the electrical circuit between the injection E.C.U. (pin 6) and the ignition E.C.U (pin 8). -Try again with a new ignition E.C.U. -Try again with a new injection E.C.U. -Check potentiometer and its electrical circuit -Check boost pressure and electrovalve I think that the little black bosch-thing is the altitude-sensor. The logical place to search for the cause of the faulty boost-gauge would be to test the boost-sensor, which I think is located under the airfilter-box, near the headlight. I think that you could resistance-test it with a DVOM. I don't know the procedure, but maybe someone else here knows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted December 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2006 For code 4.1 the manual says: "No signal emanating from injection E.C.U." Suggested solutions are: -Check boost pressure and electrovalve Hi, Johnny, Thanks for your reply and info, I am going to check the boost sensor first. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Now, and it's February 20, and I've been driving the car three days a week in 0°F temps up to 40°F today. I had slowed from 70 mph for stopped traffic this afternoon, and the car had no power. None. It was running on idle, so I coasted a mile to a gas station. I stopped at one light, and the car would not move on green. I managed to get it to acelerate (I had full boost, little power). I looked under the hood for anything obvious. The turbo was orange! Oil and water full, engine hot, but within normal parameters. Car starts instantly. All cylinders are firing. I'm ruling out ignition. The last time I saw an exhaust manifold glowing was when I had left a car idling with the choke closed. I am thinking maybe plugged cat. After we rolled it off the flatbed, it didn't even have the power to idle into my driveway. Any ideas on this one? Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Do you know if ìt flashed any codes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Do you know if ìt flashed any codes? The LED was on, but no codes flashed- unfortunately. I am definitely leaning toward fuel pressure issues: plugged filter, bad main pump, e.g., because I talked to my mechanic, and he said someone had gutted the converter already. Right now my 405 is sitting in the garage with a cracked thermostat housing. I'll fix that easy one tonight and get right to the SW8. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted February 21, 2007 Report Share Posted February 21, 2007 Sounds like you have a plan Let us know how it goes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest broke Posted February 24, 2007 Report Share Posted February 24, 2007 The LED was on, but no codes flashed- unfortunately. I am definitely leaning toward fuel pressure issues: plugged filter, bad main pump, e.g., because I talked to my mechanic, and he said someone had gutted the converter already. Right now my 405 is sitting in the garage with a cracked thermostat housing. I'll fix that easy one tonight and get right to the SW8. Bill Sounds like a blocked CAT. Disconnect it at the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 27, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Sounds like a blocked CAT. Disconnect it at the front. Now, I've checked vacuum. At idle, I'm getting nine inches Hg. Rev the engine up slowly, never more than 15. If I'm revving hard and back off suddenly, it jumps way up to 20 and back down. Is this the normal range? The cat is welded in, it's not a simple disconnect unfortunately. If anyone says it still sounds like the cat, I will pull the O2 sensor and see if things improve if only ever so slightly. When cold the car will not rev. It has to warm first. I can push the pedal to the floor and nothing happens. I checked the throttle microswitch, and it's working. The throttle pot is OK but not exact. The timing is at ten degrees, and the advance is working. Once warm, the engine can be revved freely, but has no power. I drove it around the block a hjalf mile and the turbo was orange again. From what I've read, if I had a disconnected spark plug, it could load up the cat enough to clog it. I appreciate everyone's ideas, and want to get the thing running without a visit to one of the local parts changers. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted February 27, 2007 Report Share Posted February 27, 2007 Could the turbo have failed/seized? Are you getting what you might think is normal flow from the tailpipe at idle? Do you have the manual in order that you can follow the troubleshooting guide? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted March 2, 2007 Report Share Posted March 2, 2007 Now, I've checked vacuum. At idle, I'm getting nine inches Hg. Rev the engine up slowly, never more than 15. If I'm revving hard and back off suddenly, it jumps way up to 20 and back down. Is this the normal range? The cat is welded in, it's not a simple disconnect unfortunately. If anyone says it still sounds like the cat, I will pull the O2 sensor and see if things improve if only ever so slightly. When cold the car will not rev. It has to warm first. I can push the pedal to the floor and nothing happens. I checked the throttle microswitch, and it's working. The throttle pot is OK but not exact. The timing is at ten degrees, and the advance is working. Once warm, the engine can be revved freely, but has no power. I drove it around the block a hjalf mile and the turbo was orange again. From what I've read, if I had a disconnected spark plug, it could load up the cat enough to clog it. I appreciate everyone's ideas, and want to get the thing running without a visit to one of the local parts changers. Thanks. I belive your cat is pluggged, remove it. If you'r turbo can't get ridd of the exhaust gases propperly, it will overheat (glowing turbine housing). This can realy damage the turbo! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I belive your cat is pluggged, remove it. If you'r turbo can't get ridd of the exhaust gases propperly, it will overheat (glowing turbine housing). This can realy damage the turbo! OK. I thought the cat was welded; that's the other wagon. I crawled under tonight, unbolted the front of the cat. The car ran the same. Oddly, two days ago I started the car , and it ran but had intermittent bursts of normal running! We're talking tenth-seconds, almost as it were a car searching for an idle with an air leak, but this was electronic. Tomorrow, I'm going to try to change the fuel filter. Both pumps are working, but can I have bad pressure with a good filter with pumps running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 4, 2007 Report Share Posted March 4, 2007 I think your fuel pressure/flow is going to the the culprit. You can indeed have running pumps with poor pressure and/or flow - but it might just be the fuel filter. Same issues you describe can be explained by a clogged filter, except I don't know how it's building full boost with no load... The glowing manifolds would because of a lean burn in the cylinders - so be carefull till you can change out the filter. If no change after the filter, check pressure, and if you pass that I'd look at testing the fuel flow at the injectors to see if they're flowing to spec. Keep us posted! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 I think your fuel pressure/flow is going to the the culprit. You can indeed have running pumps with poor pressure and/or flow - but it might just be the fuel filter. Same issues you describe can be explained by a clogged filter, except I don't know how it's building full boost with no load... The glowing manifolds would because of a lean burn in the cylinders - so be carefull till you can change out the filter. If no change after the filter, check pressure, and if you pass that I'd look at testing the fuel flow at the injectors to see if they're flowing to spec. Keep us posted! Rabin OK. I am teeing in a pressure gauge. What size fuel line should I buy, and where is the "easiest" spot? Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 6, 2007 Report Share Posted March 6, 2007 There should be a relief valve (looks like a tire valve) on the fuel rail after the regulator - you should be able to relieve the pressure there, remove the valve, and then put the hose on it to get that gauge onto the rail. (That's just a guess with out a 505 Turbo to double check handy!) If you can confirm pressure, then you'll have to remove the injectors to test for flow - at least that's were I'd test it. Make sure you eliminate the filter first though - it could still very well be a plugged filter. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 OK, mirabile dictu and all of that, I changed the fuel filter. Same crapola. The engine was running, I twisted the distributor and poof! My mechanic had set the timing two months ago, and, granted, it's not the easiest bolt to tighten, but it must be one of the most important. I thank everyone for their time and thought, I am glad it was something simple, but I am going to have to find someone I can trust to work on my cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted March 14, 2007 Report Share Posted March 14, 2007 Holy crap Bill - that should have also given you a really hard start problem (timing retarded) - or the car should have dieseled on at shut off if the timing was that far off... (Advanced) Weird that the only symptoms were the ones that were showing... Glad it was a cheap fix - and it stresses making sure the basics are covered! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 I guess advanced timing should have caused it to knock too, so I guess it was retarded? (no pun intended) I'm glad you found the problem, Bill. As Rabin said, it really stresses the importance of covering the basics. Adjusting the ignition-timing is very important, as the distributer controls the timing of both fuel and ignition(correct me if I'm wrong), so make sure you get it where it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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