MoritzSchreiner Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 G'day from Germany, Our Peugeot loses a clear oily substance that does not clearly smell like diesel. The hose it comes from is somehow connecting a golden colored tin besides the fuel pump with the turbo air cooler and then ends up nowhere on the left hand side. Then i noticed Engine Oil is black in color and the level is high. The car is running well, auto is working fine. Power is good. Apparently nothing is wrong, but oil is constantly dripping. Thanks for your help, Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 2, 2013 Report Share Posted October 2, 2013 Welcome to the forum Moritz! Would it be possible to take some pictures that would show us exactly what you had? We didn't get the XD3TE in North America, so not sure what else could be different. The only other thing that would have oil in it would be a mechanical vacuum pump - so that would be my guess. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Just to be clear, when you say the "Engine Oil level is high", do you mean that it is higher than normal or is the level correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 To add to the oil level high clarification: if the oil level is rising then you are likely having excess diesel making its way into the oil so check it carefully and make sure it doesn't have diesel in it. Also make sure the level doesn't exceed the full line... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 To add to the oil level high clarification: if the oil level is rising then you are likely having excess diesel making its way into the oil so check it carefully and make sure it doesn't have diesel in it. Also make sure the level doesn't exceed the full line...Rabin Yeh that's what I was getting at. I suspect that when Moritz said "level is high", he means that it's at the full mark on the dipstick, but in case he really meant that it's higher than that, that takes us down a different road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi, thanks for your welcome and sorry for my "unclear" definition due to my insufficient knowledge of English technical terms. In deed the engine oil level is too high, at least 5mm above the high mark on the dipstick. And I will take fotos of that strange hose and box besides the fuel pump as soon as possible. The vacuum pump appears to be a good idea! But we will see what you say. The engine oil does not really smell like Diesel-contaminated, do you have an idea how to find out? Thanks! Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 I would change the oil right away and ensure it's at the correct level, then monitor carefully. Sending a sample of the used oil away for an analysis would be the definitive way, but even feeling for a viscosity change might be enough to know its being diluted. If the level gets too high, its possible for the diluted engine oil to find its way into the intake via the PCV system which will cause a runaway engine - very bad. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrethx Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 these guys make a device to test your own motor oil -- don't know how well it works, but it seems interesting. i found out about them when they funded this project through kickstarter...joe and i discussed this a while back in the facebook group. oh, and welcome, moritz! andré Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hello again, I took some fotos to make clear how the engine compartment looks like and marked the areas where the detailed zoom pictures are taken from. I smelled at the lose ending cryptic hose and it appears to be diesel fuel. And I took a picture of the engine oil, appears to be contaminated because I think to smell a slight aromatic touch in it. Is the black color normal? My allday car (normal fuel) has clear engine oil. The lose end cryptic hose... The hose passes the intercooler and is connected with it Then it goes to the right hand side of the engine where the fuel pump is mounted and a little more to the right is the little golden tin at the side of the fuel pump where the hose ends up. The lose hose is cryptic since the car repair shop changed the diesel filter, engine oil and made some more maintenance jobs. They don´t really know these old cars.... Thanks a lot, Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Excellent - thanks for posting those pictures. The loose hose goes into a "T", and one side of the "T" goes to the side of the injection pump, but where does the other side of the "T" go to? I suspect that this might be part of the vacuum pump circuit so trace the other side and see where it goes. The tin can by the fuel pump is likely the cold start advance, or possibly the cruise control system which would be vacuum dependant, so you likely need to see where it's coming from to confirm it's a vacuum circuit. The Vacuum pump usually connects to the clean air side of the air filter housing, and then the vacuum port side will connect to a circuit that includes the brake booster and possibly a vacuum reservoir. My 86' wagon is non-intercooled, and it has the older vacuum pump style, and I have no cruise control so I'm not much help confirming on my own car. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 Hi, I guess you are right. Beginning with the lose end of the hose, it passes behind the intercooler, there the T-part connects the intercooler with the hose. Then it goes to the little tin at the side of the injection pump system. Similar looking hoses that seem to have connections with it also connect the fuel filter (upper right side of engine housing vertical tin with black top) and the brake booster. As we neither have cruise control (in those times uncommon in Europe as air con) the system could have sth. to do with the "load status" of gas/turbo/gear. But why is it then full of diesel? I cannot find the connecting T at the air intake at the moment, but I will try to remove it the next days, but again: can it be normal that it contains diesel? The diesel-vapors would then pass through the turbo! Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 PS: do you think it is possible that the garage put the lose end on the wrong side, that it connects somewhere with the fuel-filter? Is there a vacuum pump to look for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 3, 2013 Report Share Posted October 3, 2013 The vacuum pump is the belt driven component directly in front of the inter cooler. It should have a port that creates suction and a port that blows - blow port goes to the air filter housing, or it can vent to atmosphere through a filter. The suction side should be the vacuum circuit and include the brake booster and possibly a vacuum sphere for storing vacuum. I do think the lines could be mixed up however, so you will need to manually verify the fuel, vacuum, and coolant circuits to make sure none are mixed up. Diesels always have black oil - totally normal. Car looks like it is in nice shape under hood, so please post pictures of the rest of the car. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 As with all North American 505s I don't have an intercooler, so your layout is a bit different from ours. Is the "Tin Can" visible in one of your pictures? I see you referred to it but I can't tell what in the picture you are referring to. As Rabin said it's probably the cold start advance. That would have one vacuum line and two coolant lines going into it (actually one in and one out). I have one each of the newer and older style vacuum pumps and assuming yours is located in the same location as ours, yours looks different from either of ours. On mine, the vacuum accumulator tank is down near the clutch master cylinder, not far from where the steering column connects to the rack. With the battery and it's tray out it's obvious, otherwise it's not real visible.Also, as Rabin said, black oil is normal. I am a bit concerned if the level has gone up. About the only things that could get in there to raise the level would be coolant or fuel. Do you know if your injector pump has ever been resealed. Here at least, the change in the formulation of Diesel Fuel, since our cars were made, eats the original seals. I'm not sure, but I think if the main front seal on the injector pump fails, it can leak fuel into the crank case. The new seals that would have been used in recent years when resealing the pump, are made to resist damage from the Ultra Low Sulfur fuel, but the originals were not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Good morning, yes the "tin can" is partially visible on the last picture: on the left side a "pressure link"- screw is visible, righthand side of it the "gas-pulley" runs to the front and again righthand side is a small tin the connects with a small textile hose coming from the upper side of the picture and a small rubber hose (I tried to paint a black circle around it in the last picture). The full description of the assumed vacuum line probably follows tomorrow, need to go to work now. Plus pictures of the whole car. Does anybody have a original Peugeot "garage handbook" for these diesel engines? Thats probably what our "modern" garages needed to service this car correctly... at the moment the problem is: "no diagnosis-plug - no idea what to do". Concerning the idea with the de-sulfurated diesel I remember to have read an announcement of Peugeot Europe, that the cars are all capable of this fuel, BUT not of "Bio-Diesel" made of canola-oil. Some farmer produce and sell it and some people (EU-gov.) think its more eco-friendly. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Is this the "tin can" in the lower right? I have a lot of pictures like this that I took before moving the engine from one car to the other to assist in putting it back together correctly. I'm about 400 miles from home right now so I'm kind of limited with the ease of posting them, and of course since our cars didn't have the intercooler the hose routing will be somewhat different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 4, 2013 Report Share Posted October 4, 2013 Hi Moritz, I think you may need to remove components to gain better access so that you can take better pictures. Diesels are very mechanically simple, so diagnosing them is usually quite easy. Verifying each circuit is just a matter of tracing the lines and ensuring they are doing what they need too. Vacuum line should not connect to the motor or intercooler at all - it's a stand alone system with the vacuum pump. I think you are capable of learning to repair your own car, or at the very least you need to find a good mechanic! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 Hi, yes a good mechanic.... rare or endangered species! here are some pictures just for the beauty of the car: Have a good weekend! Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 PS: these special alloy rims (Original 505 GTI of 1986) are the latest buy and I hope to mount them next year with a couple of new tires. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 5, 2013 Report Share Posted October 5, 2013 STUNNING car Moritz! It's absolutely gorgeous. You simply don't see cars like that, in that kind of condition anymore. SW8 with the XD3TE with 4sp auto is an exceptionally nice combo, and with the euro bumpers and headlights it looks great. If you are willing to learn, these cars are very easy to work on, so with some work and some basic tools they can be easily fixed - and it's hugely rewarding. I personally feel that these cars need caring owners that work on them themselves as the absolute biggest contributor to Peugeot's "tainted" reliability reputation are bad previous owners and idiot previous mechanics. BTW - if you ever decide to sell in the future, that's the kind of car I'd seriously look at importing to Canada. Or better yet - you could bring it here and tour Canada, then leave it here. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Thank you for the compliments. The car was bought by my parents in 1986 when my younger brother was born and from that time on loved by the family. It never broke down although it ran about 250000km by now. Smaller repairs of cause and then a major restauration some years ago. But unfortunately the owner of that garage died and they closed it. As you noticed, I need to learn to repair it myself now. I´ll try my very best to locate where the loose end of that strange hose belongs to. And find out if it fixes the problems and if the engine oil levels rises above max again. And concerning your offer to buy it: I hope to hand it down to our son someday.... but first things first: his birth in november :-) A third generation car owned by the family from day one on will be very rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted October 6, 2013 Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 I hope to hand it down to our son someday.... but first things first: his birth in november :-)A third generation car owned by the family from day one on will be very rare. Congratulations! I don't know if you've seen my thread here but I too have a history with my parent's Peugeots http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2314-my-family-peugeot-history/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 6, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 6, 2013 Very touching story indeed! Really great, I read it loud and translated it for my family. Although we are getting of the original thread headline I hope nobody will mind: My personal thought of a 505 is special because on Nov. 24 1979 my mother visited her mother - and the day was my calculated date of birth. Her car slipped on the motorway because of icy rain, but nothing happened. It did not even come off the road. 4 days later I was born. Our family has a somhow ambiguous relation with VW: My first car was a Golf II Auto, 72hp. It broke down two times while I had it, and I was more than happy to get the 206 of my great-grand-aunt when she quit driving at the age of 80 or so. But my younger brother loved the Golf. ANd again tahnks to the great suspension and big leather seats he fell asleep near Hamburg and the good-natured car saved his life, it continued strait on the highway and he woke up when he slided along the guiderail at full speed. And our VW Bluestar T3 of 1991 or so saved the whole family. ALthough I personally hate it because it broke down about 8 or 10 times since my parents bought it, on strong winters day before christmas some years ago we came off the road on thick snow and ice and the car stopped exactly on the edge of a steep hill flank. Luckily we never had such strong accidents as you and your parents experienced them. But there are indeed good cars - wether they are made by Peugeot or VW or whoever. At the moment our daily ride is a 320i BMW, 250000km old, burning a bit of oil, but optically and otherwise technical status excellent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted October 7, 2013 Report Share Posted October 7, 2013 Love the family history story - and I can't agree more that you're saving the car for your son! My daughters will have their choice of Peugeot's as well! (Ages 3 and 6 currently) These cars really are easy to work on, and if you are able to learn how to do your repairs, then passing on those skills to your kids is not only a nice bonding experience, but they really are very handy skills to impart on children. Giving them that ability to analyze and fix cars will also extend into all facets of life - they simply won't be scared to try and do things themselves. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoritzSchreiner Posted October 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2013 Hello again, is this the suction or vacuum pump? It is connected via long hose with the brake booster zylinder and branches down to the bottom of the engine housing where I can´t follow it. The metal line running out of the pump runs down at the side of the engine, and again vanishes somewhere. Good news concerning the garage: our Peugeot dealer managed to get old microfiche films and a reader! Yours, Moritz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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