rear shocks for the 505 - a research project

[andrethx]

as part of my refreshment of my 505, i will be replacing the shocks. i haven't really found a good pair of OE rear shocks, and since they can't be rebuilt like the front ones i decided to go with a good quality aftermarket set (alinquants). in the long term, though, i can see that i will want to be improving my suspension to be a bit lower and stiffer; plus i would prefer units that can be rebuilt, which means konis and bilsteins. the stock of koni and bilstein units specifically intended for our cars were exhausted long ago, so that meant finding compatible units. rabin and others have mentioned that toyota truck shocks might be a good fit, so i had a place to start.

i was thinking about different options for the rear shocks, and i remembered metako's build thread from a while back. metako did a nissan engine swap, and he also upgraded his springs and shocks front and rear. most interesting (to me), he used bilstein shocks from a toyota hilux (the fronts) in his rear suspension build. in the thread, he mentions that these shocks are a close fit and only require a small amount of work to fit in the 505. unfortunately, metako did not give the specific toyota hilux application or bilstein part number for these shocks. my initial thought was to contact metako to ask for more information, but i realized that since the hilux wasn't sold in the US that there would still be some research needed to match up with a US-avaiable part number.

after a bit of research, i found a link discussing shock selection for (of all things) the toyota ae86; based on the information on that site, i was able to narrow the part down to the front shocks for the 84 & 85 toyota 4runner, bilstein part number 24-184601 (seen here and here).

if anyone can confirm this information, or correct it, i'd be grateful...

andré

[phred505]

Maybe this Koni cross reference will help.

I was lucky enough to buy a set NOS Koni (part no: 80-2056) for the 505 sedan rear from a chap in Holland. These have not been manufactured for a very long time. I can send you his contact details.

Con…. 505v6

[Metako]

Hi Andre,

I have not fitted the Bilsteins I bought as they are too short with the std 505 spring and I'm not sure they will even fit with a lowered spring. They are 353mm long fully extended whereas the 505 shocks I have are 418mm long.This means they are 65mm shorter! The Bilstein nr for these is 8341139H000 and I have not been able to find the exact model Toyota they are for and the seller was not sure either (got them very cheap from ebay). Any idea of the extended length of those 4 runner shocks (middle of lower eye to top mounting point)?

Andrew

[Metako]

I've had a look at that link you posted and it also contains a link to Autopartsdirect2U where you can see the compressed and extended length of each shock (Ultimas). Do you know the length of those 4Runner Bilsteins? The standard 4Runner shock is 353mm extended which is the same as my Bilsteins and may be too short:

http://www.autopartsdirect2u.com.au/detail/shock-absorbers/toyota-4runner-front-shocks/4357

the HEAVY DUTY 4Runner Ultima shock listed is 372mm extended which is better:

http://www.autopartsdirect2u.com.au/detail/shock-absorbers/toyota-4runner-front-hd-shocks/4830

but the 1989-2005 Hiace front shocks are a little better still at 379mm extended:

http://www.autopartsdirect2u.com.au/detail/shock-absorbers/toyota-hiace-front-shocks/4353

At 379mm it is 1.5 inches shorter than the std shock which is just about ideal for 1-1.5 inch lower springs asuming your std 505 rear shock is the same as mine at 418mm extended - there may be variations in the length of the std rear shock and I don't know what brand mine are so they could be aftermarket. Would be worth measuring a few diff sets of std shocks if you have access to these. Going by the above website looks like I have Hilux 4WD IFS or 4Runner STD front shocks.

[andrethx]

@con -- would love the contact details of the dutch gentleman selling konis, please pm me at your convenience

@metako -- thanks for responding! as best i can tell, the bilsteins that are most commonly offered for the 4runner are the 4600 series, intended to be OEM replacement....thus, i think they'd be close to the original extended length of 353mm that you mention above, since this site indicates that the 4600 shocks give little to no lift over stock shocks.

the good news is, since these are shocks for off-road trucks, there are a variety of other shocks that bilstein, et. al. offer that provide a variety of lift heights (since lift is important to off-roaders). so it should just be a matter of researching which bilstein units the toyota owners use to get a particular amount of lift. given that you mention the hiace shock (379mm) as nearly ideal for a car lowered about 1", and 379 - 353 = 26mm or approximately 1", so we should be looking for a toyota-application shock that gives 1" of lift, correct?

this brings to my mind a question, though -- my (admittedly noob) understanding of the issue is that the toyota truck/4runner/hilux/hiace shocks have been mentioned as a good substitute for OEM because they are (potentially) the right length and offer the correct amount of damping, and they additionally mount in a similar fashion to the peugeot 505 application. in your earlier post you showed how the shocks could fit our cars with minimal adaptation, have you been able to confirm this with test fits, etc. (besides the length issue, of course)?

andré

[Metako]

According to the post below on aussiefrogs the Hilux Bilsteins are a bit stiff for the 504 with Sti springs but are OK, so they may be ideal if using heavier springs and on the slightly heavier 505.

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25919

But they don't seem to have a problem with fittment due to length so maybe they will fit OK, unless they are getting longer than std shocks and then they could be any length. Perhaps as I said the 505 std shocks I have are atypical. I haven't tried fitting the 353mm Bilsteins I have but I did make sure that the top pin will fit and the bottom eye will fit with a reducer bush, so that's not a problem.

Yes 1" lift would be correct assuming Bilstein's starting point for std is 353mm. I wonder if Bilstein could give you the compression/rebound rates of their shocks for the 4Runner and Hiace together with a recommended rate for suitable springs. They may even have records of the rates for their discontinued 505 shocks (# BNE-2022 ?) for comparison. I also wonder if anyone here has a spare 505 Turbo rear shock to measure max extended length?

Also on Aussiefrogs Thanos recommends some bump/rebound rates for a 504/505 rally setup which is helpful (last post on page 1):

http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90046

[Metako]

I've been looking around for more info on possible substitute shocks for the 505 and what I have so far I've put in a table attached below, which is a work in progress (contributions welcome).

With my own car I think I will first arrive at the exact rear spring I want as far as rate and height goes, adjusting the height by cutting and folding coils. I have 16mm wire coils ready to go in with a free height of 395mm with 9 total coils or 7 active coils and a rate of around 300 lb/inch, which is 25mm lower than std GTi/Turbo springs which are 420mm as far as I have been able to work out.

Then when I have the perfect spring I'll install the std 418-420mm Peugeot shock and see if the spring rattles and if it's captured by the shock OK. If it's OK then I can use the Koni Red or Bilstein B6 Sport 505 shocks which are the std length of around 420mm. But if the new spring rattles then I'll go to one of the slightly shorter shocks like the Dyna, Hiace, Silverado or Rodeo after checking the bump/rebound rates with the dealer.

From what I can work out the reason some guys are able to use the 353mm Hilux front shockers is that they have the 350mm Rally/Safari Spec 375 lb/inch springs which I'm pretty sure would be too hard for everyday use on the street, and too low as well. It looks like maybe a suitable length of shock is one that is the same length as your spring - the std shock is 420mm which works with the 420mm factory springs, and the 353mm shocks work with the 350mm Rally springs.

PEUGEOT 505 REAR SHOCKS TABLE.pdf

[andrethx]

this is a great resource, metako -- thanks for posting it! i would very much like to see how you test-fit these, please write up your work if you can...

my main motivation in looking into this is future-proofing my car...i have a set of replacement shocks for my worn-out factory rears, but (as you know) most shocks including peugeot 505 rears can't be rebuilt, so when those shocks wear out in the future it will be even more difficult to find something that fits. koni and bilstein will rebuild their shocks (and they also perform well) so that's why i was looking at those, but it's always nice to have options and if a different application can be made to work, so much the better.

looking at your chart, i see that you have chevrolet silverado and ford f150 applications listed...there are also bilstein and koni shocks available for those trucks. not sure about how available they are in australia, please pm me if you want help getting them from the US...

andré

[Metako]

Thanks for the offer Andre, thats very generous-will see how I go.

I've added the koni PNs for the Silverado and F150 to the table (attached below)-thanks for the info. Also removed entries for Bilstein B6 for 505 and 604 as discovered these were referring to springs not shockers.

Andrew

PEUGEOT 505 REAR SHOCKS TABLE new.pdf