Johnny Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Today I found gas/oil in the part of the fuel-pressure-regulator that the vaccum-hose is connected to. Does this mean that the membrane is broken and the FPR needs to be replaced? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Can u specify bit more? there is o-ring in fuelrail side which can be leaking? Or fuel return hose? Or If u have EGR then also vacuum hose can "backfire" in top of regulator So where exactly that oil/fuel was? V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 I thought I did As I said: it was in the part of the fuel-pressure-regulator that the vaccum-hose is connected to, on the top of the regulator. Not in the fuel-rail side and not in the fuel return hose. It's the part that the spring is in and the vacum-hose that connects to the manifold. That part was filled with gas/oil and there was some in the hose too. The fuel could not have gotten there from a leaking o-ring or from the return-hose. The only way in there is from the manifold or through a leak in the membrane inside the fuel-pressure-regulator as I see it. I don't think I have a EGR but I don't know... what does it do and how do you find it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 Are you sure that's fuel and not mainly that "oil dirt" that you can usually found everywhere in the intake side (hoses, pipes, intercooler, pressure sensors etc.)? That oil comes from the turbo (even from new ones in some scale, I think) and propably from the crank case ventilation system too. See: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=149 http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?sh...2entry292 http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?sh...0entry310 EGR = Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Here's something: http://www.asashop.org/autoinc/nov97/gas.htm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation If you have EGR system in your engine, you should see a pipe running from the exhaust manifold to the intake manifold. Here's a picture where the EGR hole in the intake manifold has been blocked: http://fatali.servebeer.com/~mrcrossfire/P...gr_tulpattu.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Then also regulator has rubber plate inside which can leak. Just replace that to be safe and clear. Easy to find many saab models have same models so just go in local junkjard, should not cost more than 50-100 krones. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 Hmmm, I don't think what it was "oil dirt" because it smelled like gas and was more liquid than oil. Great picture, it clarifyes alot. I have two manifolds, and I was wondering what that hole was for in the manifold that isn't in the car. There is no hole in the manifold in the car. V-M: If I'll replace that rubber-plate, how do I open the regulator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 V-M: If I'll replace that rubber-plate, how do I open the regulator? Nope! Don't eaven think doing that! No sense and very risky! V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 V-M: If I'll replace that rubber-plate, how do I open the regulator? You can't replace the rubber part without destroying the regulator. V-M meant that you should replace the whole FPR. You can see the part number stamped in the FPR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Aha, hehe. I thought that it would be hard to open it and get it back in one piece . V-M: I misunderstood you. Your wording suggested that it was the rubber plate which was to be replaced . Anyway I have put the regulator back in place just to see if it will come any more fuel in that place, I'll replace it later. I ran a search on the bosch-number on a junkyard-database but I don't find that it matches any saabs but it matches some peugeot 205's and 405's. It would be great if you could post any more info in the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Aha, hehe. I thought that it would be hard to open it and get it back in one piece . V-M: I misunderstood you. Your wording suggested that it was the rubber plate which was to be replaced . Anyway I have put the regulator back in place just to see if it will come any more fuel in that place, I'll replace it later. I ran a search on the bosch-number on a junkyard-database but I don't find that it matches any saabs but it matches some peugeot 205's and 405's. It would be great if you could post any more info in the matter. HeH, youre right my wording sucks I realy ment for replacing whole regulator. U can test it just removing that vacum hose and runing engine. See if fuel comes from top of regulator. Just take your one and go in junkjard, maybe you find 3bar regulator (used in some saab and bmw models). Don't worry about number if it fits, there is eather 2.5bar or 3.0bar markings on side. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 bosch part numbers: N9TEA (3.0 bar) = 0 280 160 257 N9TE (2.5 bar) = 0 280 160 227 N9T (3.0 bar) = 0 280 160 235 (not sure about this being 3bar, but i'm %90 sure) the US spec N9TEA's all came with the 227 (2.5bar fpr) and 802 injectors due to emissions regulations from what i understand. johnny: if you cant find one i'm sure i can find a spare i can send you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 bosch part numbers: N9TEA (3.0 bar) = 0 280 160 257 N9TE (2.5 bar) = 0 280 160 227 N9T (3.0 bar) = 0 280 160 235 (not sure about this being 3bar, but i'm %90 sure) the US spec N9TEA's all came with the 227 (2.5bar fpr) and 802 injectors due to emissions regulations from what i understand. johnny: if you cant find one i'm sure i can find a spare i can send you... Sure I have them also, but those spare ones are easy to find. SaaB -> (Sweden)! And those are real cheap in junkjards. If not found (which I doupt to happen) I can sent spare also. N9T should have 2.5bar (all of mine did) and number was 0 280 160 227 on those (84-85 models). V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 My -88 N9TEA (cat version) has a 0 280 160 227 regulator. If I put a 3 bar regulator in would the car run rich or is it fine anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 My -88 N9TEA (cat version) has a 0 280 160 227 regulator. If I put a 3 bar regulator in would the car run rich or is it fine anyway? Only need CO adjusting (for inspection), so it will run rich without adjusting. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 My -88 N9TEA (cat version) has a 0 280 160 227 regulator. If I put a 3 bar regulator in would the car run rich or is it fine anyway? yup, as V-M said it just needs adjusting. we used to run the 3bar FPR with the 804 (337cc) injectors when we started experimenting with higher boost levels. on the stock system you'd tweak the AFM to adjust the base mixture at idle. on megasquirt i'm not sure how you'd do this, maybe it doesn't need to be done? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 3, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ok! But doesn't CO adjusting only affect ideling mixture? Wouldn't it run bad/rich other then when idling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted November 3, 2006 Report Share Posted November 3, 2006 Ok! But doesn't CO adjusting only affect ideling mixture? Wouldn't it run bad/rich other then when idling? a 3bar fpr isn't going to make it run rich enough to run like crap, even without adjusting anything. its not THAT big of a change. as far as i know, adjusting the base mixture at idle changes the mixture slightly throughout the whole rpm/load range. inputs from the AFM are still active @ WOT. (V-M correct me if i'm wrong) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 a 3bar fpr isn't going to make it run rich enough to run like crap, even without adjusting anything. its not THAT big of a change. as far as i know, adjusting the base mixture at idle changes the mixture slightly throughout the whole rpm/load range. inputs from the AFM are still active @ WOT. (V-M correct me if i'm wrong) It does not make so big difference but giving nice extra when going over 0.8bar boost It will effect more after 0.5bar boost so in inspections it will be okay if iddle is adjusted by demand V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 yup, as V-M said it just needs adjusting. we used to run the 3bar FPR with the 804 (337cc) injectors when we started experimenting with higher boost levels. on the stock system you'd tweak the AFM to adjust the base mixture at idle. on megasquirt i'm not sure how you'd do this, maybe it doesn't need to be done? I don't use megasquirt for the fuel, only for the spark. My fuel system is stock right now, but in the future I'll use megasquirt to run both fuel and spark. Anyway, I have bought a 3.0 fpr from a saab and installed it. The car seams to run as it did before, but when the time comes I'll adjust CO before any inspections. The car don't really run very well, it doesn't rev more than 2-3000 rpm. I have thought about the overboost-switch but there is no change if I have the cables connected to it or not, or if I wire the cables together. So I guess that is not the problem. I suspected fuel prior to changing the regulator, but now I'm leaning towards that my spark-map is way off. Unfortunetly, I don't have a laptop yet, so I can't really adjust anything as it is now..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 hmm, the overboost switch shouldn't be kicking in unless your putting down 16psi at that 2-3000rpm. or do you think you have a faulty overboost switch? regardless, unplug it! .... when overboost kicks in you'll know it, its a really harsh cutout. not sure what else to say, does it seem like its running out of gas at 2-3000 rpm? is that why you were leaning twords the fuel side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Yeah, it revs to a point then rpm goes up and down, so I thought that maybe the fuelpressure was fluctuating. But now I think that I may have locked the ignition and forgot to unlock it. If that is the case, then the spark would come about 10 deg btdc and stay there, regardless of rpm. I think that this would effectivly limit rpm, due to the air/fuel-mixture combusting when the piston is already going down. Although idling would be fine, which it is. That could be the reason, or maybe I have adjusted megasquirt so that I the spark is coming too late in the spark-map at that rpm. But I will probably get some answers when I get my hands on a cheap laptop. Without that, I'm a bit stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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