Peugeottogo Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Great update Bill! Welcome to the wonderful world of Peugeot ownership! It would be advisable to call the yard where the car is for parts to verify it hasn't been crushed yet. Take the pump and the head. You can take the entire intake and exhaust manifold with turbo attached and take them too. Yahoo, another one saved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 Is that a lever, or do I crank the engine to pump the priming pump? On my 1985s it's a rubber/plastic button on top of the housing. I remember it being a lever on some of my earlier Peugeot diesels but I can't remember for sure how much earlier so I'm not sure exactly what your's looks like. There is some kind of pump mechanisim attached to the top of the fuel filter housing (asuming it's still original). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 10, 2013 Report Share Posted April 10, 2013 I have used a mighty vac for the same purpose on my VW TDI. And, like yours, the PO of my car has replaced the filter unit with something that uses less expensive filters. I'll try to suck fuel thought the systems and see what happens. Thanks, guys, Bill Opps! didn't see that. Anyway you want to use whatever method you can to make sure the IP is sucking fuel not air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Ok, I made some progress, but the car still is not running. It did run when the mechanic tried but the engine would race. That's strange, I think. The PO had the same experience when she tried to start it before it would not restart. Sometimes a car that is Running low on fuel will race just before it quits. I,dunno,about diesels... Today I drew fuel through the IP using a mighty vac on the return line. A few bubbles came through, but it holds vacuum and sucks fuel through. Then I tried to start it. It cranks but no start. Then I jumped the fuel cut on solenoid. I could hear the relay click when I did. Then tried to start it again. Again, it cranks but no start. So, I think the next step is to get the IP off and have it rebuilt or resealed. As I mentioned before, I have used place in Portland called Diesel Fuel Injection Services. They we reasonably priced and very nice. They quoted me $525 to rebuild the pump. that seems quite reasonable to me. Before I do that, does anybody have any other suggestions to get it started? Thanks, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 What exactly do you mean when you say the engine raced? Only thing that causes a diesel to rev up is more fuel. If it were me I think I'd find a compression tester to see what the cylinder pressures are before messing with the pump. I'd also be cracking the lines at the injectors and making sure that one you've bled out the air at the ip that you get fuel to each injector. Is the oil level good? Oil doesn't smell like diesel? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 What exactly do you mean when you say the engine raced? I cannot say for sre, Bean. Both the PO and the mechanic said that they got it running and the engine would not idle; rather, it would run at high rpms. If it were me I think I'd find a compression tester to see what the cylinder pressures are before messing with the pump. I'd also be cracking the lines at the injectors and making sure that one you've bled out the air at the ip that you get fuel to each injector. I have a compression tester and a leak-down gauge. Both would be valuable to checking engine wear. The leak-down tester is even better than the compression tester. But I will do that and bleed the system at the injectors. Is the oil level good? Oil doesn't smell like diesel? The PO was anal about oil changes. They took reasonably good car of the car. There is oil in it and I have not detected the scent of diesel in the oil. I'll double check. But I am wondering why that is a concern. Are you thinking that unburned fuel is getting past the rings into the case? Thanks for the ideas, Bean. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I'm not sure that this is what happened to my car, but I do know this happens to some TDIs. Oil vapors from the crankcase (that are fed back into the intake manifold) can begin to fuel the engine. There is a Wikipedia page on this condition: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_engine_runaway When the engine raced on the PO, she said it just stopped on its own. The mechanic said he turned of the key and it stopped. If the engin were fueling itself, turning off the key would not stop it. The wiki article also mentions worn IP linkage... I do know the IP leaks and will need to be resealed. One way or the other, I'll have to do that, right? But I should probably make sure the engine is worth salvaging with a compression and or leak-down test. Thanks guys, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 I do know the IP leaks and will need to be resealed. One way or the other, I'll have to do that, right? But I should probably make sure the engine is worth salvaging with a compression and or leak-down test. I think this is the point we are both making. The pump will need to be resealed and that sounds like a very reasonable price, but I have my doubts that the pump seals are what's causing it not to start, and I'd want to know what is causing that before plunking down over $500. Certainly if the pump is bad enough, the engine won't run, but it's been my experience that it will leak like a sieve long before it will stop the engine from running. I think I'd do a compression test next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 12, 2013 Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Run away diesels usually are caused by raw diesel finding its way into the crank, raising the levels, and then getting sucked into the intake via the PCV system - so yes I was curious about diesel in the oil for that reason. You're also correct that nothing stops a run away diesel except a steel plate over the intake to stop it from getting air. Diesels don't like to be over revved so I'd do a compression test for sure before spending money on it. It might be better spent on a parts car / complete engine depending on what you find. Ideally you'll just confirm its a good motor worth spending some money on. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted April 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2013 Hi again, guys, Just an update. I got the car from the Morin Brothers Automotive in SLO to my garage in SLO. Thanks to AAA, it was a free tow. I talked to Griff, the mechanic at Morin Brothers, who said it would rev high and that he thought it was a governor inside the pump that caused that condition rather than diesel engine runaway. I want to believe him, but I'll do a compression test myownself to verify hat we have good compression. I'll report back when I have more to report. Just in case I don't sound grateful for all your help, I really am. I love this little corner of the automotive interweb world. You guys are great. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 Thanks Bill - but I have to say it's a pleasure to help out as much as possible when someone is willing to save one of these unique cars... Not many are willing to put the effort into saving these cars, so if you're willing to put in the time to learn and ask questions there's a whole community in here that will do their best to help you get the car going again. From your update I'm much happier that it could simply be an issue inside the IP that caused a high rev and not something that would have taken past redline and done damage. Bleeding the IP, and ensuring diesel is getting to the injectors will be a big help, and if the compression numbers are decent then it'd be worth looking at having the IP looked at for resealing and possible repairs. If the place you say is familiar with Bosch VE pumps, then you might want to have them look at doing a little tuning while their at it. Not sure if you saw my hybrid VW - XD3T Injection Pump I'm having built - but it really looks like Peugeot left a ton of potential on the table with a very mild injector cam profile: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2443-xd3t-aaz-hybrid-bosch-ve-pump-project/ My plan is to use the AAZ bits with the AAZ 2-stage injectors rebuilt with XD3T nozzles to see what kind of power the XD3T can make with some proven VW IDI performance tuning procedures, while at the same time improving the engine's NVH and emissions. If all goes well - I'll keep pushing the envelope with better turbo charger and electronic boost control to see how modern I can make the old girl - as my ultimate goal is to have a cross country family vacation car. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted April 14, 2013 Report Share Posted April 14, 2013 From your update I'm much happier that it could simply be an issue inside the IP that caused a high rev and not something that would have taken past redline and done damage. Bleeding the IP, and ensuring diesel is getting to the injectors will be a big help, and if the compression numbers are decent then it'd be worth looking at having the IP looked at for resealing and possible repairs. Me Too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted May 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hi guys, Just wanted to write with an update. And unless you count my spending time staring at the injection pump, I have not made much progress and, hence, have little to report. One question I have is this: can I mark the pump and bracket to re-time it manually (or static ally) when I reassemble the unit. Or, a better question might be, how hard is it to get the timing right when you install a new pump? I figured I'd mark it and try to get it close to where it was prior to disassembly and use that as a baseline for re-timing the pump. Any thoughts? Taking a moment today to be thankful for my mother, and grandmothers, and step-mother, and mother-in-law, etc... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulaweb Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Scribe a mark and you should be able to put it right back to the current timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billy bee Posted May 28, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 Well, I got the IP out the other day. I now realize I might have been wise to compression test the engine before removing the IP. I am not sure if the IP is driveni by gears or chain, but I'm afraid to turn the engine over with the IP out. Anybody know if the splined IP drive will move if I turn over the engine with the IP out? I cannot tell by the repair manual how that goes together. The IP is pretty easy to remove, actually. Once the linkages and fuel lines are removed, there are really only a few bolts that hold it in. One, between the IP and block, is a little difficult to get at, but with the right extension, it came out easily enough. I am going to box it up and send it off for rebuild by DFIS in Portland. I took a few pictures, but diesels, and, hence, my hands, are/were dirty; so, I was reluctant to grab my camera.. There is dirt under my cuticles that will have to grow out... I'll post up a few pix later... bb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 28, 2013 Report Share Posted May 28, 2013 It's easy enough to pop the IP in and secure with just one bolt while you turn it over to do the compression test. Pump is driven - so it will of course move as soon as you crank the motor. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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