billbranch Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Hello, The new throttle potentiometer is installed and properly set. I bought this car a bit over two years ago. It had a blown engine when I bought it, sight unseen from a list member. I harbor no ill-will toward the man, since the car ran so well (broken waste actuator). I have a new engine and many new other parts. Besides the hailstone dents in the hood, there is really only one nagging issue: vibration. After I read the posts by the PO, his complaints were the same as mine: vibration at 45-55+, goes away with more speed. Now I know why he bought another car, and only put 10G miles on this one in two years. This occurs regardless of whether or not the engine is running, whether or not the tranny is engaged, coasting or whatever. It actually is louder when coasting, i.e., the rear end is powering the tranny. I have changed the motor mounts, tranny mounts, torque tube bearing, u-joint. The differential has been disassembled and rebuilt to spec's. The drive shaft has been checked for run-out and balance. I have been told that the noise could not be produced by the tranny (ZF) because it would have blown up by now. We are left with a noise/vibration which is being caused by a mis-aligned drivetrain. What I see under the car is damaged floor pans, pushed up and dented. I wish someone knew the car and could tell me what has happened so I would know where to go next. The car came from Florida in 2001 or 2000 and went to Georgia. It is white, the typical bluish-grey interior. There was minor front-end damage. The tailgate has been monkeyed with: the latch was re-welded to the bottom, and the panels didn't line up. There is a upward dent under the driver's feet, and there is a noticeable crown at the middle of the middle seat. There was a horrible jerry-rigged antenna. My next move, I believe, is to run a line from the center of the crankshaft to the center of the differential to see if there's lateral run-out of the drivetrain, and to proceed accordingly. Any info, advice appreciated. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Everytime I have a vibration at the speeds you mention, a proper wheel balancing has always helped me. 505's seem to be very sensitive to unbalanced wheels, and love to thrown off their weights from the wheels. One time the balance wheels off the car didn't help, I got them balanced ON the car, and the vibration ceased. But based on all the work you've done, you must have ruled out unbalanced wheels by now. The SW8's are cool cars, good luck with yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted January 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 Don't get me wrong: I had a ZDJL SW8 for six years, but at about 300K on the clock here in New England, it was time to move on. So I've had this Turbo for two years. This is another kind of vibration: it's the whole car. The wheels and tires have all been checked and swapped. My mechanic says it's a driveshaft/bad u-joint type of vibration. Naturally, with the monolithic torque tube/rigid rear axle set-up, any vibration is transmitted to the whole car. I feel nothing through the steering wheel. There is only one u-joint on the wagon. What we're suspecting is that with too much of angle somewhere... e.g., the splines at the differential, if they're not going in perfectly square to the diff. The "clamshell"/u-joint set-up, is it made to bend sideways? We don't know, and, not having a model side-by-side with mine, we can not see how the stoved-in underside can be affecting things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 wow! i'll be cuerious to see what you find bill, that's an interesting one. good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toni Lindroos Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Everytime I have a vibration at the speeds you mention, a proper wheel balancing has always helped me. 505's seem to be very sensitive to unbalanced wheels, and love to thrown off their weights from the wheels. One time the balance wheels off the car didn't help, I got them balanced ON the car, and the vibration ceased. But based on all the work you've done, you must have ruled out unbalanced wheels by now. One other 505 owner told me the same thing, it was better get them balanced on the car. I haven't tried that, at least yet because I'm still trying to put together a decent set of alloy wheels that are not too warped. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted January 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 One other 505 owner told me the same thing, it was better get them balanced on the car. I haven't tried that, at least yet because I'm still trying to put together a decent set of alloy wheels that are not too warped. ;-) It is much better to balance on the car, particularly with fwd cars and/or sedans such as the Peugeot with independent rear suspension. However, this is definitely not coming from the tires and wheels. The intensity and duration of the vibration/noise markedly decreased when we installed new motor mounts, and we feel we're headed in the right direction. Our next move is to slot the bolt holes in the "saddle" which carries the transmission mounts to allow for lateral adjustment. As I said before, with only one u-joint, the straighter from engine to differential, the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted January 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 It's now January 19, 2006, and I've made an appointment with a body/mechanic person to straighten out the floor panels, if not just for cosmetics' sake: the 1.5 inch crown in the middle seats, or for feelings the at least one inch upward swell at the drivers' feet, or for rigidity, the seam at the left rear jacking point which was peened over and split open like a festering pimple by careless others. And, on driving the car, I notice under full throttle acceleration, the car is smooth, yet, when backing off and decelerating, the vibes blare. I'm beginning to suspect that torque is flexing the drivetrain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I found the following service bulletin that seems related to your trouble. Service Bulletin no. 188, from Peugeot. 46 to 51 mph vibration on 86-92 turbo station wagon equipped w/ ZF4HP22 Automatic A slight vibration may occur after torque converter lock-up at 46-47 mph and 2000 rpm under light to medium load conditions only. This vibration may continue to 50-51 mph and 2200-2300 rpm simular to the noise and vibration experienced while driving over a steel grate such as encountered on drawbridges. the fix is P.N. 0025.78, a Hysterese Spring, which I belive changes the lock up speed from 50 mph to closer to 60. BTW, how did the appointment go with the body/mech person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I found the following service bulletin that seems related to your trouble. Service Bulletin no. 188, from Peugeot. 46 to 51 mph vibration on 86-92 turbo station wagon equipped w/ ZF4HP22 Automatic A slight vibration may occur after torque converter lock-up at 46-47 mph and 2000 rpm under light to medium load conditions only. This vibration may continue to 50-51 mph and 2200-2300 rpm simular to the noise and vibration experienced while driving over a steel grate such as encountered on drawbridges. the fix is P.N. 0025.78, a Hysterese Spring, which I belive changes the lock up speed from 50 mph to closer to 60. BTW, how did the appointment go with the body/mech person? I've wondered about that part update, there is and always has been definitely a vibration at tc lock-up. If I remember correctly, the part can be installed with the tranny in situ. It's definitely worth a try. My pal straightened out the driver's side floor and the area of the left rear near the jecking point where it had been damaged by injudicious jacking. He said it looked like the car had been driven into the woods and landed on a big rock, that someone would really have needed to use some force to bend up the floor as it was. I think, after looking under the car, he backed away from fixing that part of the floor which I feel is causing the problem: the middle seat, where there a one and a half inch crown in the middle of the seats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 yep, the spring is installed with the tranny in place. It goes in the valve body. I bought one from Eriksson Industries (860) 388 4418 from a fellow named Nat, just last week. The spring costs $1.77. I think it's the least expencive Peugeot part ever! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 yep, the spring is installed with the tranny in place. It goes in the valve body. I bought one from Eriksson Industries (860) 388 4418 from a fellow named Nat, just last week. The spring costs $1.77. I think it's the least expencive Peugeot part ever! I bought one today, which should arrive tomorrow. My understanding is that the pan has to be dropped to get to the valve body. Where do I go from there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted February 8, 2006 Report Share Posted February 8, 2006 You should get the instructions with the spring. Did they offer them to you? They'll want $ for the photo copies. You need them, the instructions are very specific, and contain diagrams. If need be, I can fax them to you, but the diagrams may be too blurry to read. The service bulletin may be somewhere on the net..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 You should get the instructions with the spring. Did they offer them to you? They'll want $ for the photo copies. You need them, the instructions are very specific, and contain diagrams. If need be, I can fax them to you, but the diagrams may be too blurry to read. The service bulletin may be somewhere on the net..... OK, the gang at Steve's installed the spring, and the lock-up speed is higher. Now, THE GOVERNOR STICKS WHEN THE CAR IS COLD ON FIRST TO SECOND UPSHIFT! I do not think these are related issues. I am going with LubeGard Red. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted February 26, 2006 Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 OK, the gang at Steve's installed the spring, and the lock-up speed is higher. Now, THE GOVERNOR STICKS WHEN THE CAR IS COLD ON FIRST TO SECOND UPSHIFT! I do not think these are related issues. I am going with LubeGard Red. Someone on peug-l had the same problem with his, (haven't we all?) and said he had the system flushed out under pressure and the trouble went away. Oh yah, he also went to Mobile One tran fluid, but I think any high qual fluid will do. Good luck with yours...... BTW, what is your lock-up speed now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted February 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2006 Someone on peug-l had the same problem with his, (haven't we all?) and said he had the system flushed out under pressure and the trouble went away. Oh yah, he also went to Mobile One tran fluid, but I think any high qual fluid will do. Good luck with yours...... BTW, what is your lock-up speed now? 63+/- mph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2006 And, then, as suddenly as it had begun, the sticking governor at first to second cold upshifts went away. Naturally, Steve, at the tranny shop, lipped the words, "I told you so;" I could see him over the phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 14, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 14, 2006 All of that notwithstanding, I think I've made a breakthrough, at least in terms of the vibration. I had noticed that upon hard braking, which would employ the rear shoes, the vibration virtually disappeared. Today, after ascertaining that the handbrake would, in fact, release if I pushed the button, I tried the handbrake while driving 70. Poof! Vibration gone. I did a few coasting ones, too, also as many as possible in bumper-to-bumper traffic applying then releasing the brake. The vibration disappeared, came right back after I released. Any ideas? I do not believe the rear wheel bearings were changed. Thank you for any suggestions. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Hello, I just installed an after-market AC condenser for which I paid seventy or so bucks on eBay. Let's just say it's not an exact fit in terms of the stud configuration for the fans. So jerry-rigging it took three or four days, my memory wandered, and I had two bolts left over. 6 mm bolt, 1.0 pitch, 17mm long with its own built on washer 15mm diameter, semi-pointed. I posted several out of focus pictures. Any late model 505 guys think these look familiar? I took off the grille and the small clip on the left headlamp bracket; the two upper and two lower mounting fasteners for the radiator; the nuts securing the fans; and of course the mounting bolts and nuts for the condenser and the hose connections. Someone please save my sanity: I'm not taking that thing apart again. Thank you. Bill Hello, I just installed an after-market AC condenser for which I paid seventy or so bucks on eBay. Let's just say it's not an exact fit in terms of the stud configuration for the fans. So jerry-rigging it took three or four days, my memory wandered, and I had two bolts left over. 6 mm bolt, 1.0 pitch, 17mm long with its own built on washer 15mm diameter, semi-pointed. I posted several out of focus pictures. Any late model 505 guys think these look familiar? I took off the grille and the small clip on the left headlamp bracket; the two upper and two lower mounting fasteners for the radiator; the nuts securing the fans; and of course the mounting bolts and nuts for the condenser and the hose connections. Someone please save my sanity: I'm not taking that thing apart again. Thank you. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted March 27, 2006 Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 where are the pictures? can you post a link to them, or post them here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted March 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2006 where are the pictures? can you post a link to them, or post them here? I posted one with the verbage, but it was too large in terms of storage. I'll do it tonight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted May 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 VIBRATION! We've done a bit of research on the thing, and the engine/tranny combo and the torque tube are misaligned. We are going to slot the holes on the tranny mount plate and try to install it with no prying needed. The tranny, when disconnected, sits an inch off-center in the tunnel. TURBO OIL LEAK! At least it's not the head gasket, but is this a sign of impending doom for the turbo? Are there replaceable components? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
august Posted May 22, 2006 Report Share Posted May 22, 2006 interesting about the trans alignment, i guess that makes sens though eh? the turbo has the 2 rubber o-rings on the top and bottom of the cartridge. if it was leaking internally i think it'd be a different story.. you can get the o-rings from madhu (parts network) for like 3 bucks each i think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted May 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2006 interesting about the trans alignment, i guess that makes sens though eh? the turbo has the 2 rubber o-rings on the top and bottom of the cartridge. if it was leaking internally i think it'd be a different story.. you can get the o-rings from madhu (parts network) for like 3 bucks each i think. Roger (mechanic) called me yesterday after slotting and reinstalling the tranny mount "saddle" and after a short 40 mph spin. He said the was 99% vibration-free. He called later after a higher speed drive; the car still has the problem. It is obvious to me that the car has had a minor front end impact which must have somehow bent or otherwise alterred the alignment of the engine, transmission, torque tube, and differential. The car is useless to me as it is, and, unfortunately, it would be useless to anyone to whom I would be unscrupulous enough to sell it. Maybe I should just toss my principles away and do to someone else what was done to me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest the505inme Posted May 24, 2006 Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 Roger (mechanic) called me yesterday after slotting and reinstalling the tranny mount "saddle" and after a short 40 mph spin. He said the was 99% vibration-free. He called later after a higher speed drive; the car still has the problem. It is obvious to me that the car has had a minor front end impact which must have somehow bent or otherwise alterred the alignment of the engine, transmission, torque tube, and differential. The car is useless to me as it is, and, unfortunately, it would be useless to anyone to whom I would be unscrupulous enough to sell it. Maybe I should just toss my principles away and do to someone else what was done to me... That's tough. WOuld you concider dropping the drivetrain into a car that's never been wrecked? I always thought a 504 wagon w/ N9T guts would be pretty sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbranch Posted May 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2006 That's tough. WOuld you concider dropping the drivetrain into a car that's never been wrecked? I always thought a 504 wagon w/ N9T guts would be pretty sweet. Believe me, I have entertained the thought. Roger is not giving up; he wants to modify the existing set up. It's "on him," so I'd be a fool to not give him a chance.BTW, since I bought the car, besides the engine, we've changed the lower BJ's, the inner tie rod ends, the exhaust, the radiator, AC condenser, new brakes, alternator, countless other parts. Aside from the droning vibration, it's an excellent car. The tranny is excellent. If he can't fix it, I'll more than likely get rid of it to someone who can either stand the vibration or wants to cannibalize it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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