Bean Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Congratulations Metako! It's quite the accomplishment, and for you to be driving around must give you the biggest smile EVER! I can hardly wait to see what kind of results you start getting with the car once you start "playing" as that engine has some tremndous potential. Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Thanks Rabin, yes a BIG smile I keep thinking up excuses to jump in the car and drive it somewhere! One queston: the clutch is quite heavy and it makes bumper to bumper traffic a chore. To make it lighter do I swap the clutch slave cylinder for a bigger one or a smaller one? I cant really change the clutch master as only one size is available for the 505 I think, but there must be a few slave cylinder options. My thinking is this: like a garden hose, the smaller you make the opening the more force the water has, so if I make the slave cylinder smaller it will have more force but may be harder to push as there is more resistance. If I make it bigger, there will be less resistance and hence easier to push. Correct? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Hey Metako - glad to hear you're thoroughly enjoying your creation! As for your question - it's going to be a double edged sword since you basically messing with a hydraulic circuit with a finite volume of fluid being used to actuate the slave. So you're right that a bigger slave whill make it easier (Larger piston in the slave allows more contact area to the fluid = more PSI - which will move a given weight easier.) - but where you get into trouble is that the increased surface area of the slave means it needs more volume - and since the stroke of the master only has so much - you may have a clutch that's easier to push - but it might not have enough stroke to actuate the clutch fully. Its a balance for sure - and you're best option might be to either look at using a Nissan Clutch master - or look at ways to increase your mechanical advantage on the clutch rod. Without knowing too much - I'd bet you're easiest option is to use the Nissan Clutch master. The other ways would need not only fabrication - but they'd need some calculation to make it work properly. Hope that males sense! Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Yes it makes sense. I know the diameter of the std S13 Nissan master is 16mm so I will check the 505's size. If it is less than 16mm then I will try to have the 505 master bored and sleeved with stainless to 16mm as I think this is an easier way than trying to adapt a Nissan master to bolt onto the 505 firewall, although I may be able to re-drill the firewall I guess. Also have to find out the size of the slave I'm using-a Nissan Patrol 4WD-and see how this compares to the origional S13 one. mmm, the manual doesnt specify the diameters of the 505 master or slave. Anyone have these figures? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Congratulations Metako! (Larger piston in the slave allows more contact area to the fluid = more PSI - which will move a given weight easier.) A larger slave-piston will not make the pressure greater It will make the force acting on the clutch greater though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 In context - "More PSI" was meant to mean more pounds per square inch force acting due to the area increase - I didn't mean that the pressure of the fluid would increase - just lazy in my writing. The fluid has more area to act on when using a larger slave - so for a given psi of pressure in the system it will be able to act with more force. (But will have a shorter stroke due to the fixed volume of fluid.) Hope that's clearer... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted December 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 an interior pic of the Momo wheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 10, 2006 Report Share Posted December 10, 2006 Nice wheel! In context - "More PSI" was meant to mean more pounds per square inch force acting due to the area increase - I didn't mean that the pressure of the fluid would increase - just lazy in my writing. The fluid has more area to act on when using a larger slave - so for a given psi of pressure in the system it will be able to act with more force. (But will have a shorter stroke due to the fixed volume of fluid.) Hope that's clearer... Rabin Hehe, I know, just thought I'd tease you a bit =P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 thanks Johnny, it makes a big difference to the handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 You're right, that last post was rather pointless. Sorry, my bad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2k12 Posted October 22, 2007 Report Share Posted October 22, 2007 ...any progress? lol. im thinking about putting a vq30det into a 505 wagon lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted October 23, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2007 There has been a serious illness in the family so I havent had time to work on the car the last few months but have just started to work on the suspension. I have finally found some 13.5mm front 505 diesel springs and cut 2 coils off them, and now have to have the ends folded down like stock. Hope my calculations have been accurate and they are the right height! I have also found a local car, a Holden (GM) Commodore which has similar struts to the 505 only harder (its a 1550kg car) and should be perfect for the shorter diesel springs. I've also got some 16mm rear 505 springs which I have cut one coil from and will put these on soon too. Car is going really well except for a clunk in the drivetrain which I will have to sort out soon. VQ30DET sounds great! Which car is that out of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s2k12 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 Oh true, what type of commodore? I'm in Australia too lol. vq30det info: http://www.vq30det.com/wb/pages/technical/...cifications.php http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nissan_VQ_engine#VQ30DET It's available in a few Japanese-only Nissans, the version i want is the one from the y33 platform (gloria, cedric, leopard, cima, etc. basically all the cars that previously sported vg30et and/or vg30det engines lol). The reason behind wanting the vq30det is because its the same weight as an sr20det, but it's cheaper and it has more potential. the problem with these engines is that, coming from luxo cars, they dont have a manual transmission option. however, in true nissan style, the vq series engines are being used in many different platforms, such as the 350z (vq35de) and navara (vq40de), which are available with a 6spd manual. so those gearbox's bolt up. The reason I want the y33 version is because theres no variable timing or anything, so electronics are alot more basic. Which is good because i want to run it all from a megasquirt system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted November 10, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Sorry for the late reply. That engine sounds great! Lots of potential. The Commodore VB to VP strut will fit but the 505 strut housing might need a cleanup with one of those cheap "small cylinder honer" attachments you can buy for drills, as its a tight fit (stut insert is 44mm OD versus 43mm OD for 505). Also you will have to use a Commodore strut top as the strut top shaft is thicker and wont fit the 505 strut top bearing. So its a bit complicated but can be done to get some heavier damping in there. I've just bought some Volvo 240 Koni yellow adjustable strut inserts on ebay so I'm going to fit them instead of the Commodore ones. They should be as heavy as the Commodore ones. Will need to fit the Volvo strut tops with these probably by re-drilling the Volvo tops so the std 505 bolt holes can be used (perhaps slotted). I also bought some Toyota Hilux front Bilstein shocks to use on the rear of the 505 with lowered springs as these are quite a bit heavier than the std 505 rear shocks. Will let you know how I go fitting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted November 29, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Here are some pictures of the Volvo 240 Konis. The hardest part is adapting the 240 strut tops needed because the strut insert is thicker and wont fit the 505 tops. I havent fitted them to the car yet but will do so as soon as I have more time. The first pic is of the std SR strut insert versus the Koni and the Commodore VB-VP which I decided not to use when I found the Volvo Konis on ebay. The Volvo strut insert will be shorter by about 50mm which will be good with the shorter 13.75mm 505 deisel springs I am using. The washers on top of the strut insert keep it from moving in the strut housing. I will use an old 504 strut ring as a pattern when drilling the Volvo strut tops and then weld nuts on the underside. The Volvo tops first need their bolts cut off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 That's awesome Metako! Thanks for posting the pics! Looks like if you didn't want to lower it - you could put the spacer at the bottom of the strut to raise it up in the housing rather than at the top - and it should retain most of it's travel... Opens up a ton of upgrade possibilities, as well as replacements for the strut bearings... 240's have a great aftermarket so there's a ton of stuff available... I have an update for the wheel project too... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted November 30, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Thanks Bean. Yeah you can put the washers under the strut if you dont want it shorter. The other advantages of the Volvos are that the std Volvo springs are around 114 lb" so the Konis are designed to damp heavier springs than the std 505 Turbo/GTi 87 lb" springs. And as you said you can get Bilstein Heavy Duty and Sprint (even shorter) inserts, as well as Boge Turbo Gas and Pro Gas which are meant to be quite good too. Btw I cut two coils off the diesel springs (which actually measure 13.75mm wire not 13.5mm) and then bent the tops down leaving 6.25 total coils, but its only about as low as a std Turbo, so I want to cut another one coil off, leaving 5.25 coils, so I have a 15mm gap beween tyre and fender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Since you know the spring rate for the spring and it's total stock length, if you can get a measurement for the installed height of the spring stock, and then the free height, you can determine exactly how much to cut for the spring to give a new height, as well as the new spring rate. The reason I mention it is that usually cutting springs causes the spring rate to go way up - much higher than expected which results in an over sprung car that handles like ass... (Simplistic IE 114 lbs/in for say a coil spring with a length of 50 inches. Cut 10" from the coil and your spring rate and the spring rate goes to 142 lbs/in.) Sounds like you know what you're doing and the Koni's should offer way more damping so hopefully it works as planned. I'm curious how lowering springs for the 240 would work personally as I'm not a big fan of cutting springs... Course I've never seen anyone actually do any calcs -they just cut and it always ended poorly... Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metako Posted December 1, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2007 Well I did the calculations and with 2 coils cut it should have given a 20 mm gap and 113 lb", but it ended up a bit higher than that at 45mm. If I cut another coil (30mm per coil when compressed) it will end up something like 130 lb" which I think will still be OK. I looked at std Volvo springs and they are quite a bit longer than the std 505 (lower spring perches)so I figured that even shorter sport Volvo springs would be too long. Thanos says that as long as you bend the tops of the cut springs they are fine so I thought I'd give it a go. Also on the rears I'll be using 16mm 505 springs (dont know where I got these) with 1 coil cut and Toyota Hilux front Bilstein shocks which only need a bronze bush pushed in to the lower eye and a stack of washers on each side of the eye to fit the 505. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensonm Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 Good day everyone. Am a newbie here, seeking help from the members. Am doing an engine swap on 504 pickup but have challenges. I need to use a nissan engine, which means I have to make the nissan gearbox work/couple to the tubular prop shaft or make the 504 gearbox couple to the nissan engine. Gents like Metako and possibly others have done this. I request your help on doing this project. If anybody wants to come through privately my email address is [email protected] and WhatsApp number +27834863444. Ben Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted January 16, 2023 Report Share Posted January 16, 2023 Hi Ben, Welcome to the forum! I’d be willing to help advise, but would prefer if you started a build thread where you could post pictures and ask questions. If it were me, I’d swap the engine and trans, and modify the prop shaft. We never got the pick up, but assume it’s the same as the wagon with joint at transmission and torque tube to solid axle differential? Rabin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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