PeugeotPilot
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Posts posted by PeugeotPilot
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3 minutes ago, Bean said:
If going lightweight then absolutely! I’ve often thought about the same, with simple door cards with just pull straps. Also thought it would be neat to engineer a manual sunroof mechanism for opening and closing if not deleted. Glass would be the antithesis since you’re adding weight at the very top of the car.
The 504s had, IIRC, a manual sunroof mechanism that involved a hand crank ahead of the sunroof opening, didn't they? The existing 505 sunroof mechanism is said to be prone to failure over time thanks to its cable, while the 604 setup is much better although the sunroof motor is mounted in the ceiling and so adds weight up there. I am still looking at options, but I think just a very simple tip-up arrangement that can also be removed entirely would be the lightest.
You're quite right about the glass being heavier. I'll either stick with the steel panel, or more likely use tinted polycarbonate or something similar.
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14 hours ago, Bean said:
I’d keep the AC if I were you. I was always afraid of the system, but after overhauling the system in my Volvo, I regret previous A/C deletes!
Easy to graft in attainable parts, and the compressor is very common, so it should be easy to sort out. Even A/C lines can be redone at hydraulic shops for cheap.
To be honest, it's not that I'm worried about the task. I think most AC parts are pretty standard and I'm sure I can find what I need if I'm so inclined. The issue is that I dislike all the extra weight and plumbing that goes with AC systems and clutters up the engine bay. My idea with going with manual windows, mirrors, and door locks is to make the systems simpler and lighter. AC is very nice on a hot day, it's true. But this isn't a DD; it's a fun car for my own enjoyment and I'd like to make the front end lighter and get the weight distribution closer to that magic 50/50 number. Fitting a lighter battery is also on that list. The PRV engine is heavier than the XN6, so every little bit helps. Plus I really dislike where Peugeot put the alternator on the V6 cars. It gets soaked in oil and road grime down there. Anyway, that's why I'm thinking about deleting the AC in this case.
Same thing with going with a manual glass moonroof or even a fixed one - that's weight up high that acts against the car in a corner, so I want to minimize it. I draw the line at re-engineering the Peugeot suspension because to me that's a huge part of what makes it a Peugeot in the first place, but I can help that suspension out by removing some weight that works against it.
When I get around to building a 604, that car will have AC and power everything, but it will be a little more focused on creature comforts than this STX.
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That's a Premier engine, all right. I recognize the valve covers. But the induction system intrigues me. I wonder what he did there. I've met John in person, and I've seen his car. In the course of our visit, however, I didn't get a chance to really examine his 504 as my time was limited. I picked up some extra V6 stuff he had and was on my way. But I do have an invitation to come visit again, so I think that's definitely something I'll have to do. And this time I'll ask a few more questions.
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1 hour ago, SRDT said:
Renault probably has a serpentine belt setup with no A/C.
Yeah, that thought had occurred to me. And since the Premier engine is a Renault unit, I think it's very likely I can find what I need to make that work without starting over.
Still kind of leaning towards a high-mounted alternator though, especially since there's a nice set of threaded mounting points cast into the RH valve cover for the AC compressor. Might have to have some custom brackets made up, but that would be worthwhile, I think.
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11 hours ago, Mike T said:
Sounds good. No A/C! Going for max speed, eh?
A guy I know in the Interior of BC put Premier PRV 3.0L in a stock looking 504 sedan. They're even lighter than the 505!
John Coltman, by any chance?
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Well, when I got the car the AC was already partially removed, so I'm just going to finish the job. I suppose I could add all that weight and plumbing back in, but I'm not inclined to; I can live without it. The only problem is that all Premiers had AC so the serpentine belt drive is set up for the compressor, mounted on the RH side valve cover. I haven't really looked into what I'd have to do to make that work without it. In the end it might actually be simpler to just reinstall the AC. That said, I'd almost rather relocate the alternator up there, away from the exhaust, where it should stay cleaner and cooler. I know I want to make use of the serpentine belt drive in any case. It's a nice update for the 505. It was one of the reasons I decided on the Premier engine, the others being the slight bump in displacement and the hydraulic cam followers.
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Well, here we are in 2023 and this project has not moved forward at all in the interim. Apart from the fact that I've run the car regularly and it basically hasn't deteriorated at all since the last time I posted, I have essentially nothing new to report. But, with a new job has come (finally) the financing to move ahead with some of my car projects. And I think it's time I did something with this one. So, a couple of days ago I sat down and thought about what I'd really like to accomplish with this car. I know I want forced induction. I know I want it to remain a PRV V6. I know I want to retain the Peugeot suspension and ABS. Starting from there, I put together a build plan, and I've attached it here.
Key to the success of this plan is using parts and pieces that I mostly already have, so as to keep costs and delays down. For example, I already have two spare Eagle Premier 3.0L engines. Things like a new clutch and new brake pads I will have to source from Europe or the UK most likely, although I still see things pop up on eBay from time to time. The SDS engine management system is going to be the most expensive part of this project, fully 20% of the budget. But finally I actually do have a budget, and the means to move ahead with this.
Changes to the plan will be minor from this point on. Mission creep is the enemy of progress. This car needs to be on the road. I brought it home from California in 2015 and a lot of water has passed under the bridge since then.
Disassembly is the first step, and if the weather is good then I'll begin that in about a week.
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A 604 in Alaska is a rare beast indeed. That car looks awfully familiar. I'm sure I've seen it before. I love 604s in general, and that colour in particular looks good on them.
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On 8/12/2021 at 7:29 PM, wadehilts said:
Hey @Bean
Yeah the EGT sensor isn't in a perfectly ideal location, but I'm hoping it will work well enough / there will be enough swirl in the manifold to maintain an accurate reading.
Hugh provided me with the html files for the now defunct Australian site "Hot Five-Ohs". Here is their unverified opinion on BA10 torque limits:
So that's a different perspective out there. 300 Nm corresponds to 220 ftlbs. I'd be interesting if some of the other members of this forum, particularly the tuners in Australia, have any comment on this. @Stewart?
To add some context to this, Dave McBean's site is the ONLY place I've ever read about BA10/5 torque limits. Also, "seems to be" is not the same as "is rated by the factory at" so I don't know where Dave got his numbers from. I like Rabin's numbers a lot better. I plan to put a turbo PRV into something at some point in the not-too-distant future, and the engine I have lined up for my STX is also apparently producing significantly more torque than that number in normally aspirated form. I want to use BA10/5s in both applications, so if that gearbox will live behind an engine producing 300-ish lb-ft of torque, I'd be pretty happy.
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Sounds good, Jayden. The brakes should be a top priority at this point. 505 brakes are generally very effective, so if your pedal is going all the way to the floor you should be really concerned. They will need to be bled at the very least, and you will want to make sure that the hoses are in decent condition and that there are no leaks. Fortunately the job is not difficult. Get those sorted out and your enjoyment of the car will increase immensely.
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I've been looking through a few old pictures from years ago, and it's surprising how a few cosmetic details alter the look of a car. This is a picture of the STI taken back in 2015. At that stage it was wearing some rather shabby-looking 504 wheels that could have used a coat of rust paint. Late 15" alloys, new mud guards, the tucked bumper and the air dam have really transformed this vehicle.
While at work up here near Pond Inlet, Nunavut, I've been planning next steps. I have a few different sets of driving and/or fog lights I can mount at the ends of the air inlet in the air dam, but I'm having a hard time deciding between a set of Blazer projector fog lights:
...and a set of Pilot Automotive halogen reflector driving lights:
I've actually got two sets of each, and I'm honestly torn. The Pilot units look pretty good on a 505, as seen on my STX:
...and they're probably more period-correct for the car. But I also want to replace the halogen sealed-beam headlights with a set of projector inserts, like so:
So now I face the dilemma of picking one...or the other...or something else entirely. I'm embroiled in similar questions around switches, gauges, and other things. Details matter, and I don't really like doing things twice.
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Lots of little details accomplished this week, and although I now have to go back to work for basically the rest of August, I’m happy with what I managed to get done while I was home. In no particular order, here’s what I did:
- found and installed a good set of basic sun visors from one of my parts cars.
- installed new front LED side marker lights (Princess Auto items).
- replaced cracked and non-functional RR side marker with good unit from a parts car.
- installed the correct rear seats for this car, to match the fronts. I still haven’t located the tub with the headrests in it, but that’s on the list.
- changed the oil and filter, and greased the propeller shaft. Second such service since I reactivated this car, and I’ll be changing the fluids in the hydraulic system, transmission, and differential soon.
- replaced all four exterior door handles with black aftermarket units from Argentina. Lubricated latch mechanisms while there.
- removed power trunk lock. (This caused some fun for me, as I then stupidly closed the trunk and couldn’t open it. The power lock mechanism works by inserting a plastic arm between the plunger and the latch. If it’s not there, there is no way the plunger will ever actuate the latch. I finally managed to trip the latch by removing the RH licence plate light. I then changed the plunger and its keyset to one from an earlier car without the power trunk lock. Problem solved, after a bit of consternation on my part.)
- temporarily refitted the door cards, just to make the car presentable for now. When I’m home next, I will be switching the window regulators to manual crank units, in keeping with my philosophy of simple, light systems with this project. I don’t know if I mentioned it in an earlier post, but the power door locks have already been removed.
-cleaned and repainted the rocker panels with rubberized rocker guard. At the same time, I found and addressed a few areas of minor surface rust that I didn’t deal with in years past. Happily for me, southern Alberta is so dry that a car parked for years in a field will not rust any more than it already had before being parked. So at least I’m not dealing with a nightmare in the wheel wells and elsewhere right now.
- tweaked the position of the shift knob so that it sits 1/2” higher. I like the look better, and it’s an easier reach to fifth gear now.
- installed a simple fixed antenna to replace the unserviceable power antenna.
Other than that, I spent a fair bit of time planning next steps. Driving and/or fog lights are on the agenda, as well as some additional instruments. A new dashboard is in the future too. I’ve been looking into projector headlight housings that will fit into the spots currently occupied by the 7”X6” sealed beam headlights. I have a trailer hitch that is earmarked for this car, and it will also get 505 Turbo suspension, steering, and brakes at some point. I have a pretty clear vision for this car now, and it’s merely a question of time, effort, and a little money.
By the way, I’ve decided that I will not be painting this car. I’ll do what I can to shine up the existing paint, but it’s going to wear its 35-year patina proudly. That said, I will paint things like the window frames and wiper arms, and all those elements will be flat black. I like the look.
More to come in September! For now I’m off to the high Arctic to fly around and count whales for three weeks.
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4 hours ago, Mike T said:
NOS switch on the console?
Nice job
Hahaha, that’s what I should do with it, but it has the much more mundane task of providing manual control for the fan I just installed. My philosophy with regards to this particular car project is “remove weight and complexity.” In other words, manual everything. The power door locks and power mirrors have already been removed, and the power window mechanisms will be next.
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Well, a few changes to the STI as of today. Chief among these was the fitting of an electric cooling fan, which was cheerfully donated by one of my parts cars - in this case, a Renault Sportwagon 2.2. The Renault fans move plenty of air, and they use a wire frame with no shroud, which makes the installation easy and clean-looking. I’ve used them before, and always been happy with the results.
While I had the front end apart, I fitted a 505 Turbo air dam and I tucked the front bumper. While not quite as tidy as the Euro bumpers or the 1989 NA ones, I still think it looks pretty damn good now. A set of low-profile driving lights will be fitted shortly and I’ll find some way to make the top bar on the air dam sit parallel to the lower edge of the bumper. This piece always seems to sag, and it bothers me.
The front marker lights were removed, along with the side moulding that carries them. I bought low-profile LED units to replace them, which will look much cleaner. But I ran out of time to fit them today, so I put black Gorilla tape over the holes for the moment. In a few days I’ll finish the job properly.
Inside, I fitted a Renault Fuego steering wheel and a new shift knob. The latter nicely matches the stalks for the manual side mirrors, which is a nice touch. I like details like that. I painted the centre portion of the wheel and its hub, and I oiled the leather wrap as well as the shift boot. I’ll use leather paint on the wheel later and restore its black colour properly.
On the back end, I used black rocker guard to paint the plastic piece that mounts the licence plate and fills the gap between the taillights. And speaking of taillights, after a monumental struggle I managed to get all the lights to work...mostly. I believe there is a special place in Hell for the guy who designed those taillights. I’ll devise a longer-term fix in the near future, but for now at least I won’t get pulled over for THAT item.
Overall, a very good day! More to come soon.
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That's a very well-considered answer, Goce. I doubt I'll ever get the chance to experience a 607, but owning a 605 is on my definite to-do list.
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Actually, I see that Rabin asked a very similar question a few replies up, and you answered it. That said, if you had to choose just one of them to keep, which is your favourite now?
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Glad you're keeping it going, Goce. I have to admit that the 607 is a model that I've never thought much about. I'm curious as to how it compares in your mind to the 605, since you own both. I mean in terms of driving dynamics.
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Taking a look at your pictures, Mike, it strikes me that the 404 sedan has really good proportions. Everything seems right, in relation to the rest of the car. I'll admit that at one time I thought they looked dated, but my tastes have changed over time. I do prefer the lines of the 404C, but I would never say no to a sedan either. One of each would sure look nice in any garage.
Although I've never owned a 404, and my only experience with them was when Jamie Kitman's 404 Familiale was in my care for a few months on its way to him, the 404 is largely responsible for me getting into Peugeots in the first place.
When my dad was overseas in Nigeria during the civil war in the late 1960s, one of the jobs he did was operating a motor pool of heavy trucks as part of the relief efforts for all the displaced people. His shop also maintained a few other vehicles that were not part of that fleet, and one of these was the 404 sedan of a doctor whom my father called a friend. This doctor would drive the 404 at high speeds over the appalling roads in that country, and the only things my dad ever had to do to that car were to change the oil and hammer the tie rods straight because they'd become bent as a result of this treatment. He was so impressed with the durability of the Peugeot that he bought one when he returned to Canada. He owned two 304s in succession, followed by a 604 that became my first car and my introduction to the marque. In a sense, I owe my involvement with Peugeot to some doctor in Nigeria who I never met and whose name I don't know.
By the way, that same doctor was very nearly killed for his car by two deserters from the Nigerian army who stopped him one day. He knocked one of them over with the door when that man came alongside, and struck and killed the second one, who was standing in the middle of the road firing at him. The car survived with some bullet holes. This was a common thing in those days, and very nearly happened to my dad as well. He has some interesting stories from that time.
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I spent a bit of time re-reading my earlier posts in this thread. What's interesting is how flawed my memory can be about some things. Also, I'm puzzled as to why I allowed a perfectly good car to sit for two years because of a failed alternator. At that time in my life I was extremely busy with work and family, but it seems like such an inconsequential thing, an easy and cheap fix.
That was not a good reason to allow a car to sit and deteriorate for two years. Neither was borrowing the radiator for another STI and putting off replacing it. And yet, it's a testament to the basic durability of these cars that twice now I've brought it back to serviceability after multiple years of neglect. Now in its 35th year, it doesn't feel like a tired or worn out car. It feels like it has a lot left to give.
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As a complement to the articles Andre posted elsewhere in this section, here is a PDF from a manual I own entitled "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection." The quality of the document is not that great, as it is composed of pictures taken of the applicable pages from the actual book. I will replace this version with a much better version at some point in the future, but for the time being this may be of some use to anyone here who owns and maintains a 505 equipped with the XN6 engine.
I've found this manual to be very useful, particularly with regards to troubleshooting problems. There are two chapters - the basic K-Jet system, and the K-Jet w/Lambda. The latter applies to the XN6. I hope someone finds this helpful.
Hugh
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Aha. Just had to make the file smaller. See attached. I'll put it in the Technical Resources section too. This covers both the standard "K-Jetronic" version and the "K-Jetronic with Lambda" version used by the XN6-powered 505s. This is from an excellent manual called "How to Tune and Modify Bosch Fuel Injection" and it's saved me a lot of headaches. If you skip to page 29 in the PDF, Chapter 10 deals with your specific system and it includes troubleshooting, plus the various pressures. Read this and you'll understand how the system works.
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58 minutes ago, Jayden M said:
Alrighty, I just went out and ran until warm again - This time with the oil filler cap off (Weird I had to use a prybar to get the cap off.... wtf weird). Still had a lots of smoke. AND I noticed smokey vapors coming out the oil filler hole. What this means... i dont know Lol
That's normal oil vapour from the crankcase. With the cap on, that vapour is actually routed into the intake manifold and burned. Nothing to be concerned about, unless it's excessive. Of course, when I say that I'm not really helping you because I can't describe what "excessive" means in this case. Rabin is right though - if it was pressurizing the crankcase the oil would find its way out of the front seal, and you'd have a big leak.
I think your running issues are most likely related to the fuel system, and you're in luck - I found my picture files from my K-Jet manual and put them into a PDF. I can't seem to upload it here for some reason, but I'll find a workaround. It's got all the information you should need.
By the way, a compression tester is a worthwhile investment, and they are not all that expensive. I'd invest in a fuel system pressure tester as well for this car. Well worth the money to have the right tools around, especially when dealing with older cars that nobody knows how to work on anymore.
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19 minutes ago, Bean said:
Crankcase breather on the side of the motor could be plugged, but that usually pushes oil out the slinger front seal and your oil level drops pretty quickly. One of my favorite cars died when I thought I’d be fancy and installed a pcv breather filter on the xn6 and it ended up freezing up on highway, which pushed oil out the front slinger until it seized the motor at highway speed. Oil light flickered once and was very quickly followed by rod knock.
Helluva way to lose a car...
I hadn't thought of the front seal. Yeah, I suppose that's a more likely symptom if the breather is plugged.
Back to the drawing board.
If the poppet injectors are new, and working properly, I wonder if it's possible that the cold start injector is running continuously for some reason? That would add a lot of extra fuel into the equation, and it might be worth checking to see that it's operating as intended.
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Wow. It's almost a shame to install that and get it all dirty...it's a work of art, that.
I really hope that this time all goes well with the reassembly. It's heartbreaking when you just get something back together and it leaks...
Hugh's 1987 505 STX V6 Project
in Member build threads
Posted
Whatever I wind up doing with the sunroof, I want to make sure it can be returned to OEM if I change my mind later. So the goal is to make no changes to the body shell, or at least none that can't be easily reversed.
I think the first step is to drop the headliner and see what's actually up there. It's been a long time since I had a good look at the sunroof in one of these cars.