Guest adegnes Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 My 505 would'nt start this morning, There is no spark. About a week ago, I had a fire in the main fuse-box, (smoke coming in from under the dash, creepy...) this caused the car to keep running eventhoug i turned the ignition off. Somehow the problem fixed itself... obviessly, something is burned, And I think this is the cause of my dead car... Is it hard to remove the fusebox? kind of narrow in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 1, 2006 Report Share Posted November 1, 2006 That don't sound very funny.. To remove the fusebox you need to unscrew the two philips-screws on top of it, and bend out the two plastic "clamps?" that are on the back of it (towards the coupé). Then you should be able to get the top of it loose. Then there are one, or maybe two bolts that you need to remove, then you should be able to get the box loose. Then you just have to remove all the wires from the circuit-board (keep track of where the cables connects) and you have your fuse-box removed. So it's not hard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 I removed the print board from the fusebox yesterday, found two destroyed cables, ALL the insulation was burned away! I dont know what the cables are for, it's a green one and a blue one, they bouth enter the same terminal (nr.4) on a brown contact under the circuit board (if I remember corect, it was the biggest one of the brownies under there...) the green cable may have the number 27 on it, I'm not sure about that one thoug, It's pretty hard to tell...( read; burned) any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 2, 2006 Report Share Posted November 2, 2006 No idea, but here is a link where you can find a wiring-diagram: http://peugeot505.info/files/505_n9tea_cir.pdf It's in french but it's readable anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 I've replaced the burnt wires, but there is still no spark... The burnt wires enter the printboard in the fuse box, and goes thru fuse nr. 14, this fuse is supposed to be for the reverse light and a automatic transmission start relè. My car has a manual gearbox, and no automatic trans. start relè as far as I know... Something is toast, any suggestion's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 6, 2006 Report Share Posted November 6, 2006 I don't know about your specific case but in general, things that can make the ignition-system produce no spark are: Hall-sensor in distributor, Ignition module (that little thing next to the coil), Ignition coil, Knocking/ignition unit (under passenger footrest). Also check if you have voltage to the coil with a multimeter. Edit: I forgot one thing. (If you haven't done it of course) Connect a wire with sparkplug directly to the coil. Then put the sparkplug on ground (car-ground) for example: the engine, the inner-fender or something like that. And crank the engine to see if it sparks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 I don't know about your specific case but in general, things that can make the ignition-system produce no spark are: Hall-sensor in distributor, Ignition module (that little thing next to the coil), Ignition coil, Knocking/ignition unit (under passenger footrest). Also check if you have voltage to the coil with a multimeter. Edit: I forgot one thing. (If you haven't done it of course) Connect a wire with sparkplug directly to the coil. Then put the sparkplug on ground (car-ground) for example: the engine, the inner-fender or something like that. And crank the engine to see if it sparks. Thank's, any ideas on how to test the ignition and knocking units? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 7, 2006 Report Share Posted November 7, 2006 Have you tested those things I mentioned before? (voltage to coil, ignition module, hall sensor) If not, test them first. It's the basic stuff. If you have tested those, I'm afraid that I can't help you any further Testing the ignition/knock unit will probably be a bit more tricky and will require more knowledge of the system then I have so lets hope that someone who knows how that unit works can provide more info on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 I found almost no voltage over the coil (0.6v), I tried jumping it with a cable from the battery, got voltage, but it still wont fire... I'll try changing the amplifier module today. Where is the cable from the magnetic fanclutch supposed to go? Mine was connected to the sensor on the right bottom side of the radiator (not a smart thing to do, may have caused me a lot of trouble..), on the same terminal (there's only one) there's one more cable attached, bouth cables are burnt! I dont think the fanclutch cable is supposed to go to this sensor, thereby I susspect this is the cause of my fire in the fusebox... ( The burnt cable in the fusebox was green, the one from the sensor is to, and I can trace it back to the box...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 There should be continous voltage in coming wire on that radiator contactor when turning key in operating place. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 ok, is the wire from the fan clutch supposed to be conected to it? If there's continuous voltage there, that must be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 9, 2006 Report Share Posted November 9, 2006 ok, is the wire from the fan clutch supposed to be conected to it? If there's continuous voltage there, that must be wrong... Nope, that's how it works. Cluch is electromagnet principle. When radiator sensor reaches ~90C deg it will let voltage trought and that drags those plates as one and flect will start to go with water pump. (was this explained messy enough?) Any way u can test clutch to put that clutch's wire directly to battery +, it should make "klonk" sound if thats working. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Nope, that's how it works. Cluch is electromagnet principle. When radiator sensor reaches ~90C deg it will let voltage trought and that drags those plates as one and flect will start to go with water pump. (was this explained messy enough?) Any way u can test clutch to put that clutch's wire directly to battery +, it should make "klonk" sound if thats working. V-M There is supposed to be two terminals on that sensor right? mine has just one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 There is supposed to be two terminals on that sensor right? mine has just one... Yes. Sensor is on right (looking from drivers place) on middle of radiator side. V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Yes. Sensor is on right (looking from drivers place) on middle of radiator side. V-M ok. that explains why my car doesn't reach any more than about 75deg. (fanclutch is always engaged...) Now, why are those cables fried..? hmm... And what causes my car's ignition to fail...? Gives me a bad headache! Wish I was an electronical genious.... Maybe I'll remove the whole wire harness from the car, modify it so there's two sets, one stricly for engine management, and one for the rest... maybe a custom fusebox for the engine only.... Maybe I'll even remove some relès, and make switches instead, would be kind of cool to have one switch for ignition, one for fuel pump, one for main ECU, one for injector's etc. OR, maybe I'll just get this problem solved, and get the car back on the road again... Make's me dream of an old forgotten time, when carburatores was the only way to go, and voltage to the coil was all you needed to get it running... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V-M Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 Maybe I'll remove the whole wire harness from the car, modify it so there's two sets, one stricly for engine management, and one for the rest... maybe a custom fusebox for the engine only.... Maybe I'll even remove some relès, and make switches instead, would be kind of cool to have one switch for ignition, one for fuel pump, one for main ECU, one for injector's etc. OR, maybe I'll just get this problem solved, and get the car back on the road again... Make's me dream of an old forgotten time, when carburatores was the only way to go, and voltage to the coil was all you needed to get it running... When u see whole harness u will give up and dig only those which are not working I have done this harness total extract in couple of cars (5 X 505 turbos) And I don't eaven dream to put them back. (Eaven I have worked as electrician in local Peugeot repair shop in -85) It CAN be done and needs good extra documentation to be done in reverse order and a lot of nerves! See those wire pictures (can be found from Toni's site) and locate separate wire "bunches" and start opening those "cover" plastics first and see if there is burned cables more. My quess is at those which goes at front from fuse box has melted a bit and those are pretty easy to check with multimeter to measure from both ends (as starting point). V-M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 10, 2006 Report Share Posted November 10, 2006 When u see whole harness u will give up and dig only those which are not working I have done this harness total extract in couple of cars (5 X 505 turbos) And I don't eaven dream to put them back. (Eaven I have worked as electrician in local Peugeot repair shop in -85) It CAN be done and needs good extra documentation to be done in reverse order and a lot of nerves! See those wire pictures (can be found from Toni's site) and locate separate wire "bunches" and start opening those "cover" plastics first and see if there is burned cables more. My quess is at those which goes at front from fuse box has melted a bit and those are pretty easy to check with multimeter to measure from both ends (as starting point). V-M yepp, think I'll take your advice on this one, I'll dig into those burnt wires today.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 breaktrough! Seems I`ve been looking in all the wrong places... Now what is the most logic cause of no voltage over the coil? faulty ignition relè... And what do I find? one faulty ignition relè... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 11, 2006 Report Share Posted November 11, 2006 Great that you're making progress! Have you replaced the relay? Does it start now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Great that you're making progress! Have you replaced the relay? Does it start now? I'll get a new one today, hope it'll start... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I'll get a new one today, hope it'll start... Did it start? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 nope. did'nt, arghh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 I'm back working on my car again, still does'nt start... - I changed both the ignition relay and the injection relay; nothing... - Tried changing the amplifier module; nope - Coil is OK, but there is no voltage over it... - I found constant voltage (12v) at terminal 4 and 5 for the ignition relay (with ignition turned off and the relay removed ) kind of odd, since the only voltage with the ignition turned off (and relay removed) should be from terminal 3... - Allso found that terminal 4 for the injection relay had coroded away... Now, where is the voltage coming from...? Terminal 5 on the ignition relay is for voltage to the coil, there is voltage over the terminal (eventhoug it's not supposed to be with the relay removed) but not over the coil... drives me insane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest adegnes Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 I unplugged both the igintion and injection ecu, knocking unit (and all the other boxes aswell, just to be shure), there is still voltage at terminal 4 and 5, but not to the coil. My suggestion is that somewhere in the wirecluster going from the relays, (wich includes the burnt wire from the fanclutch...) wire 2r, terminal 5 (voltage to the coil) and wire 32j (voltage to engage injection relay) terminal 4 has been cut and melted together with the wire from terminal 3 (constant 12v)... IF this is what has happened. I consider myself a pretty unlucky guy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Here is something I hope can help you, it's the diagram of the fan's circuit. I copied it from a workshop-cd I recently bought from ebay. I have no idea if your circuit is the "A/T" or "M/T", I don't even know what it stands for, but maybe you could get something useful out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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