V-M
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Posts posted by V-M
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U mean like this ? Dyno
And 205 with Mi16 engine
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/23.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc.../mi16/kuva1.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/5656.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc...16/P1010006.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/22.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/21.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/33.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/46.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/42.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/53.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/35.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/31.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/rocka01/mi16/8.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc...16/P1010014.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc...16/P1010015.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc...16/P1010022.jpg
http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b324/roc...16/P1010025.jpg
V-M
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We have many of those here, also Mi16 charged angine in 205 GTI:s
registered in street use.V-M
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Normal rising rate fpr? But some reason price is too high. Regulator fex. 1:1.2 costs ~80€ + fuel rail adapter ~15€, hoses etc 10€. I have this one (and Toni has one too)-> regulator easy to install and goes in original place. Costs "only" 82€ + pp.
V-M
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Welcome to the site Metako - and kudos to you on the sweet engine swap!
I just had to re-read this post from start to finish since it's so cool - and I just noticed that V-M decked the block an additional 1.4mm! Holy cow - no wonder the cam was a tooth out on the gear! Any problems with the timing chain slack? Was the tensioner able to handle the extra or was a link removed?
The more I learn the more I'm blown away with the work you did V-M - amazing job!
Just a little while longer and we can find out what kind of numbers the car puts down! (Nov 9th right?)
Rabin
I'll open engine during winter anyway so I'll have a look on chain then, but currently runing nicely.
That taking one link could be good idea, that must be checked. I believe at exhaust valves are bend a little and thats the reason possible opening. (Of cause I'll test with air compressor first before opening)
Pioneer work is't allways rewarding but it's interesting cause only limitation is own imagination
But Thanx!
Actually dyno day is in 18:th, I'm travelling at 9:th. That dyno place is good, you can imagine: when I reserved time to 9th, then I noticed at one hour later at I have trip art that time I called again and next free dyno time was at 18:th.
He is doing a lot of rally and racing car adjustings, and winter rally season is starting soon. -> Ah those were days, when I was rallying with Ford Escort RS 2000 over 10 years ago 
About that 20DET engine, I'll like that engine caracterestics very much! My yungest brother has nissan 200sx s14 (-95) with that engine. It can do 400hp easily without doing anythin extra than adding more fuel and bigger turbo. Very nice engine!
Metako: FMIC = IC? if yes then yes it's skinny but it's cheap ~100€ and notice at here in Finland summer is't that hot as you have there.
And currently that isn't limitting factor in my car, I believe at limitter is this originel ECU for L-jet and ignition ECU. I have decided to try find limit for these original systems cause people is chancing those too easily. Of cause I have plan to make this Megasquit when needed but untill it's realy limitting then I'll stuck this originel POS . V-M
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V-M: 118% injector pulse is an imaginary concept as you probably know. Maybe that number is interpreting something different than we assume? Maybe 118% of 'normal' enrichment? is the car running a wideband o2 sensor in the loop for enrichment feedback? There must be more to this. Any ideas?
That 118% was reading when accelleration was fully stopping in gear 2 (manual) when I was testing it in road. System tryies to run injectors more than they can. Now this problem is solved with bigger injectors -> 41lbs
In that time there was no o2 sensor guidance. Now there is wb o2 connected. In max power reading is 70-78% injectors pulse.V-M
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think the dyno software probably isn't interpreting the duty cycle correctly because 118% would imply that the injector pulse is longer than the possible "on" time of the square wave... which isn't possible. That would be like getting 3 liters of soda from a 2 liter bottle.
That was from cars ECU software, not from dyno. ECU SW
V-M
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Holding an injector open at 100% for long periods of time can damage the solenoid windings. The "standard" for testing injector flow rate is to pulse them with an 85% duty cycle square wave. Of course, the ECU is never going to hold an injector open for that long... unless it is modified. I forget what the maximum duty cycle for the N9Txx. If it is open too long, the injector's transient response becomes an issue and it may never close completely before it is time to reopen... thus a higher flowing injector is necessary, etc, etc...
An 802 injector is capable of over 250bhp if held open long enough, and certainly with added fuel pressure, but it just isn't practical, nor possible with the stock ECU.
I do vividly recall reading or being told that the "240bhp" 505 Turbo used the 804 injector along with an otherwise unmodified injection ECU. And from experience, the 804 injector seems to work perfectly from an enrichment point of view when running 1.15 bar of boost.
At one time I penciled all the fuel flow rates based on two known models, and the percentage increase of fuel flow given by the 804s was almost required by 240bhp... that is assuming that the 802 and 200 injectors are correctly suited for their respective power levels.
Have you broken any injectors because of 100% duty cycle? I have not seen or experienced any of those claimed "injector burnings". We eaven run with GTA firebird 5.7L V8 with rotrex compressor with std injectors over year. Normaly in accellerations dyty cycle were 118% openings when reading system log.
As said before dani stage 2 were not included with injectors. Those 802 which are used in katalysator models
are giving 20-40cc less than those 200.
V-M
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V-M, have you ever been able to test the 804 injectors in the same manner?
Nope. Many other ones are tested. So those listings which are floating in net are not accurate. Cause those readings are informed by different sources some are by 80% and some 100% duty cycle.
V-M
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that's interesting though.. the 200 (0 280 150 200) injectors are 300cc/min @ 3bar. danielson offered a 3.2 bar FPR in the stage 1 kit?
200 @ 3.0bar = 300cc/min
200 @ 3.2bar = 315cc/min
200 @ 3.5bar = 326cc/min
200 @ 3.7bar = 336cc/min
200 @ 4.0bar = 351cc/min
the '804' injectors (0 280 150 804) were 337cc/min @ 3bar. why didn't they offer those with the stage 2 kit?
...and what about these? anyone know the specs? (from the Politecnic website
Injecteurs BOSCH (le lot de 4) 412,00 €There was no reason to change injectors? those 200 ending are good for ~260hp and dani stage 2 is 236hp
rising fb was enough.
And actually those 200 endin are giving 324cc at 3bar 100% open. I have tested 12 sets of those, and all were around that number. I believe at those "dani" injectors are those 804:s.
V-M
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Do you know if they used the Bosch 804 injectors with the 200PTS kit, or the 240PTS kit? From what i remember, the 240 PTS kit is the one with 1.17bar boost, so i'm imagining the 200pts kit was 1bar or a little less.. hmmm
Nope... stage 2 doesn't include new injectors. Originel ones (200) are good for 260-270hp with rised fuel pressure.
V-M
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In my knowledge boos level in both stages are under 1bar (stiffer actuator is fully open in 1bar).
I have weak memory but boost should be 0.8bar for those hp ratings.
Yes, I know at i sounds strange at head gives that 36hp more so I guess at boost is bit higher
than that? But this over 1bar sounds bit high? Should give more than 236hp with stage 2 and
1.15bar? That will be coming allready with normal head and stage 1. Toni do you remember
haw was Tama:s 505 turbo boost level? He have this stage 1 set and he has 238hv ja 358Nm.
If I remember right he has 1bar boost max. He's 505 head is mild moderated std head.
V-M
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WOW - I can hardly wait for your results!!!
Does the engine note sound any different? What about off boost power? I'd expect it to be quite decent seeing as how it is a fairly high compression engine with decent displacement...
I have to admit it's SO much nicer when someone else pioneers a modification and then you can just follow up on it... Thanks V-M!
Rabin
It's bit difficult to compare cause exhaust is "totally different" than original, but sound is tight
But doesn't keep bad noise when driving in road speeds, but when giving gas you can feel and hear deep ROAR
Torgue feels and is giving bit support avoiding to this turbo lag, I'll do some measurements when it's possible. Rev. readings are not accurate in rev.meter? It goes over 8000 when accelerating
but in idle it shows 1000?V-M
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Here is current situation after 50km driving with new engine. First this adjustable cam gear 4 degr for adjusting were was too less. I needed minimum 8 degr so I replaced adj. gear with original and put gear one tooth in advance (10degr) now exhaust valves are not hitting in pistons any more.
After that I did take short round ~20km and find out at blue smoke is coming heavily from exhaust
Luckily I forget to put lock in actuator so it was not lifting pressure at all, when I was driving back to garage.
So I figure at only posibility were turbo, at that was correct. Back sealing ring was totaly leaking out. I replaced that ring and did test drive. No problem at all.
Currently max pressure is 0.5bar which I keep until I have driven 500km at least. But it realy feels good with this extra cylinder capacity, turbo lag is bit bad but lets see how it kicks when I lift it in 1.1bar
Dyno time is fixed to 9. november but lets see, we have all ready cold here (-3 deg Celsius) at mornings.
I don't want to drive this with winter tyres and slipery asfalt with this turbo lag
Another problem can be this Finish annual inspection, we have dam difficult with these engine modifications and approvals
One notice: I did still use original head gasket! It goes sharply along edge nearly whole round but in one part it's bit in cylinder side. But at least currently I have noticed any problems with it. I'll retorgue head as soon as possible (one 505 in garage waiting to breaking down to parts) .
V-M
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Some update on this one this 4 deg was not enough... exhaust valves were hitting pistons (more info on this new engine topic). I did remove adjusting and replace it with original gear and sifted one tooth in advance.
I needed 8 deg and one tooth is 10deg -> so now it is 2 deg in advance -> no problems
V-M
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There is two stage set from Danielson 200hp and 236hp
200hp (stage 1) is:
- Cam
- FPR (3.2bar)
- actuator (stiffer ~1bar)
236hp (stage 2) is:
- Head (with 10mm sparkplugs (NGK C8E and repositioning on plug hole near exhaust valve)
- Cam
- FPR
- Actuator
V-M
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That's sad and true
That was best source of knowledge in 3-5years ago...V-M
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Those aftermarket tensioners SUCKS! I have seen too many bad ones... rollers are in wrong angle, bearings "worn" before eaven used, etc...
V-M
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Copper is good and cheap alternative, Opel hobbyists are using those between head and exh.manifold.
V-M
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Oh... Sorry. Now they are.
V-M
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Those 505 type is one of kind, some close ones are some VAG and one Volvo type used. (VAG is Volkswagen/Audi/Sear/Scoda group) So bit difficult one to find.
V-M
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In that picture you can see that BIG scratch on cylinder 3 (second from front) that was due totally strange oil rings. I have build over 100 engines and never had such problems to fit piston rings. I did remove that piston and did some honing on cylinder and hope for best.
V-M
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Cam gear pictures added, not fancy but working
4 Deg in each side from 0 point.V-M
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Studs are goooood
but I'd believe at this is needed in current boost levels? Surely it's good in any level but for me it's too expencive (no bang for buck) New pictures added in web page (project section), I'll try to make some story of whole engine building (but now I have no energy to do such thing).
But ask if someting is interesting or seems odd or... anything
V-M
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About turbos: That GT25 is nice alternative if you don't need any extra power but like to have spooling bit less rev
DiscoPotato seems to be good one (there is couple of different models) for this size of engine. Many of Saab ovners in Finland have replaced original with that. I'd like to have one but price in here is too much, over 1000€ V-M
Loco Parts Availability
in General Peugeot discussion
Posted
IMHO this cranking without spark is only needed when engine in repaired (=opened) , normal oil change is as mentioned normal "morning" start. Any way I'm usually filling oil filter as much as possible (1/3) in oiland filter change. And I'm changing filter every time when oil is changed.
V-M