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For General Information--1983-1991 505 1)Geographic Zone V-Europe 2)Nation of Origin F-France 3)Manufacturer 3-Automobiles Peugeot 4)Model B-505 5)Body Style A-Sedan D-Station Wagon F-Station Wagon (3 seat) Y-Station Wagon (Taxi) Z-Sedan Taxi 6)Engine 1-XN6 2.0 FI 4-XD2S 2.3 Turbo Diesel 5-N9T 2.2 Turbo 6-XD3T 2.5 Turbo Diesel 7-N9TE 2.1 Turbo 8-ZDJL 2.2 FI 9-ZN3J 2.9 V6 FI 7)Restraint System 1-Seat Belts (Active) 2-Seat Belts (Passive) 8)Model Series & Transmission 1-DL, GL M/T (49 State) 2-"S" M/T, S/MI 16 (49 State) 3-GL M/T (California) 4-"S" M/T (California) 5-DL (California), GL M/T (50 State) 6-"S", SWB, Turbo Sedan, "S" M/T (50 State) 7-STX M/T 9-STI, "S" Touring M/T A-DL, GL A/T (49 State) B-"S" A/T, S/MI 16 (49 State) C-GL A/T (California) D-"S" A/T (California) E-DL (California), GL A/T (49 State) F-SW8, Turbo Sedan, "S" A/T (50 State) G-Turbo Wagon, Turbo SW8 A/T R-STI, "S" Touring S/T 9)VIN Check Digit 0-Computer Assigned Check Digit 10) Vehicle Model Year D-1983 E-1984 F-1985 G-1986 H-1987 J-1988 K-1989 L-1990 M-1991 11)Assembly Plant S-Sochaux, France 12-17 Serial Number -Sequential Production Number

Specs for all years of the 505 turbo sedan and wagon: N9T (1985 sedan--manual) 142 bhp @ 5600 RPM 168 lbs/ft @ 3800 RPM 7.0:1 CR Garrett turbocharger Bosch LU Jetronic FI, EZ 200K ignition (mapped) 600 mBar boost N9TE (1986-1987 sedan--auto/manual, 1986-1988 wagon--auto) 150 bhp @ 5000 RPM 181 lbs/ft @ 2750-3000 RPM 7.5:1 CR Garrett turbocharger (water cooled) with air-to-air intercooler Bosch LU Jetronic FI, EZ 200K ignition (mapped) 620 mBar boost N9TEA (1988-1989 sedan--auto/manual, 1989-1991 wagon--auto) 180 bhp @ 5000 RPM (sedan), 160 bhp @ 5200 RPM (wagon) 210 lbs/ft @ 2500-4500 RPM (sedan), 205 lbs/ft @ 2500 RPM (wagon) 7.5:1 CR Garrett turbocharger (water cooled) with air-to-air intercooler Bosch LU Jetronic FI, EZ 200K ignition (mapped with boost control) 780 mBar boost

Here's the "definitive guide" to N9Txx bearings! Many thanks to Velli-Matti Enkenberg and Philippe Brunelle for providing the info. Clevite and Glyco verified by use. Vandervell number from manufacturer. Warning: Federal-Mogul/Dana is buying up all these companies and might stop producing low volume items such as this. PSA: Main: 0113.83 (std) Rod: 0606.C9 Red (std) 0606.E0 Blue (std) Clevite: Main: MBS/5 - 1147P - STD (MB - 676PL) Rod: G424 - 1011P - STD (CB - 1011P) Vandervell/Glacier: Main: VPM 91392 Rod: VPM 91391 Glyco: Main, Standard Markings on Box: 1 JEU 940 0113 83 0 Markings on Bearings: 53137380, 53137280, 53137480, 7680 Rod: 71 - 2869/4 PL-STD

Okay, here's a crash course in N9Txx engine management (paraphrased from the manual to ensure zero errors): ----- The ignition ECU calculates the optimal spark advance and provides an engine RPM signal for the injection ECU and the tachometer. The ignition ECU determines the basic spark advance by using: - The camshaft position via the hall-effect sensor in the distributor. This is the pulse that gets sent to the injection ECU and tachometer. - Engine load percentage via the "basic injection duration" which is sourced from the injection ECU. ----- The ignition ECU then modifies this basic advance factor with the following data: - Throttle-open percentage via the TPS and throttle microswitch (closed throttle) - Detonation status from each cylinder via the knock sensor - Electrical system voltage ----- The ignition ECU also provides a control for the "Full Load Data" pin, which provides a signal for a WOT condition to the injection ECU. BTW, this is pin 18 on the ignition ECU and pin 3 on the injection ECU. Notes: ------ * "Basic injection duration" is calculated by the injection ECU. It is basically an indication of air density and is a combination of: - Engine RPM, from ignition ECU - Air mass, from AFM metering vane - Air temperature, from AFM ambient air temp sensor - Altitude, from Altitude sensor The engine RPM signal arrives during the ignition ECU's "basic spark advance" calculation phase. Therefore, the injection ECU is an integral part of the ignition ECU's most basic function. * By using the camshaft position data (from distributor), an internal counter, and the stored detonation information for each cylinder, the ECU is able to selectively control the spark advance for each cylinder. Special thanks to Joe Grubbs for the above writeup

You guys should probably tear into the system and check everything-- here are some things to remember... The HVAC ECU uses input from: ----------------------------- Heater core temp sensor Outside air temp sensor Cabin temp sensor Evaporator temp sensor Air flow pressure sensor Selected temperature Selected "vents" Position of the "ECO" button The HVAC controls: ------------------ Coolant valve position Operation of the A/C compressor clutch The 505's automatic climate control system is a very nice thing when it works correctly. Since there are many aspects to its operation, it is not surprising that many things are overlooked when a repair is attempted. The ECU has 2 modes regarding "vent" selection--If defrost, floor/defrost, or floor are selected, the ECU puts the A/C logic in "defog" mode--where it uses the A/C compressor primarily to lower humidity instead of temperature (like it does when in face or face/floor mode). When "ECO" is depressed, the ECU controls the environment using everything except the A/C. The default mode is A/C on ("ECO" button released) because the operation of the A/C is meant to be seamless-- integrated into the climate control regardless of season. In the end, it is the ECU's goal to use the coolant and the A/C as little as possible. It relies a lot on its perception of the outside air temperature. ----- Assuming your coolant level is full and your thermostat is operating (engine reaches operating temp)... The coolant valve is a spring loaded "normally closed" contraption. It always recieves a +12V supply, the ECU controls the ground circuit. If no current is applied to it, sufficient coolant pressure acts on the diaphragm and coolant begins to flow through the heater core. If the ECU grounds the valve, a solenoid more-or-less reinforces the spring and coolant pressure will not be able to open the diaphragm-- no coolant flows. You might also want to check the hose orientation. The valve's bottom connection is the inlet, the upper connection is the outlet. ----- To control the operation of the heater, the ECU probably relies most on the selected temp, heater core temp sensor, the outside temp sensor, and the cabin temp sensor. If any one of these is not mounted correctly -or- their wiring is screwy, the heater will likely malfunction. The temperature selector is a collection of 28 resistors (331 ohms each) and is best described as a "stepped attenuator". The bottom most temp selection will effectively disable the ECU's control over the coolant valve--the ECU will provide a steady ground for the valve (no coolant flow). The top most temp selection will effectively disable the ECU's control over the A/C compressor clutch--under no circumstances will the A/C clutch be engaged (similar to depressing the "ECO" button). First I would check to make sure the temp selector is working correctly. There are 2 main connectors on the HVAC "head" (the part on the dash). We'll be checking pins 4, 5, and 6 on the 6-pin connector. - Resistance at pins 4 and 6 should be around ~9.6 kohms. - Resistance at pins 4 and 5 should be "open" or atleast very high when the temp slider is all the way down. - The resistance should be very low--only a few ohms (or ~331 at the most) when the slider is all the way up. - Check the intermediate settings--you should see the resistance vary in a nice stead manner (in ~331 ohm steps). ----- All the temp sensors for the HVAC system should be ~10 kohms at ~75- 80 degrees F. And they should be mounted securely--with wiring in tact. The heater core sensor is clipped to the inside of the air distribution housing near the heater core--it is referred to as a fast-acting sensor. If the sensor falls in or is contacting the heater core, it might explain a few things. The outside air temp sensor can be seen if you remove the cowl and look down at the air intake. If it is contacting something hot (somehow) the ECU would likely reduce coolant flow through the heater core and try to rely more on the outside air... The cabin temp sensor's intake is located on the dash just above the glove box. This little vent leads down to a small air horn/venturi. A pressure drop is created and cabin air is drawn in. This is referred to as a slow-acting sensor. The evaporator sensor is mounted in the evaporator's fins. This sensor's output would be used primarily during heavy A/C usage. ----- Hypothetical situation-- You select a warm temperature, press the button with the big RED arrow (floor vent), and turn the blower up. Why? Because you're freakin cold! The engine is at operating temp. The HVAC ECU sees the cabin temp is "freakin cold" and so is the outside air temp. The ECU says "Looks like I'll have to use the heat from the coolant to warm things up". It opens the ground to the coolant valve, and coolant flows through the heater core. Your heater core temp sensor's output is unusually high because it's making direct contact with the heater core or it's getting sprayed with hot coolant... In response, the HVAC ECU says "WOW that heater core sure is a whole lot hotter than it should be... I think I'll reduce coolant flow to it to better regulate the temp in the cabin." The air from the vents starts to cool off, but the ECU is not aware of the air temp at the vents. To determine cabin temp, it uses the cabin temp air sensor--which is a slow reacting sensor. At first the cold air from the vents, while uncomfortable, is not really affecting the actual cabin temp too much. Finally however, the cabin temp begins to drop and the slow reacting cabin temp sensor finally catches up. The ECU says "Holy S@$#, it cooled off in there a whole lot! And the heater core temp is a little low now--let me open up that coolant valve again to warm things up"... Suddenly the air temp from the vents shoots up again. The cycle repeats itself--heat, no heat, heat, no heat... ----- I'm not saying this is happening on your car exactly--I'm just trying to exemplify how the system might react to such a fault. -Joe G

This is for a North American spec Mi16 1905cc DOHC liquid cooled 16 valve inline 4 cylinder Light alloy block and head Forged steel crankshaft and connecting rods Full floating wrist pins 83mm bore X 88mm stroke 9.5:1 (sometimes called 9.7:1) compression ratio most overseas sources claim a 7300 RPM rev limiter 150 bhp @ 6400 RPM 128 lbs/ft @ 5000 RPM Tubular eight port exhaust header Cast Aluminum four port intake manifold Single throttle body with dual throttle plates Bosch Motronic M1.3 engine management with knock sensor "Distributor-less" ignition system (only a cap and rotor driven by intake cam) 5 speed manual transmission 1st 2.92 2nd 1.85 3rd 1.28 4th 0.97 5th 0.76 Final 4.43 Tires/Wheels ------------ 1989 195/60 VR 14 6Jx14 1991-1992 195/55 VR 15 6Jx15 Brakes ------ Four wheel disc brakes (Girling calipers) with dynamic rear brake proportioning Bosch 4 channel/4 circuit ABS system ------------------------------------ 1989 optional 1991-1992 standard Chassis ------- Unitized steel Front suspension ---------------- "Modified" MacPherson strut assemblies with lower control arms, ball joints, and an anti-roll bar Rear suspension --------------- Torsion bar springs with Peugeot shock absorbers, trailing arms, and an anti-roll bar

The euro 8:1 pistons are dished and shaped ("8"). The difference is in the height of the recess: 8.0:1 h=3.5mm 7.5:1 h=4.8mm 7.0:1 h=5.3mm Otherwise they should be alike.

(unofficial) Page G2.025 has a chart that says essentially as follows: 1 blink: -22 degrees spark advance correction. Caused by continued detonation. Check the cooling system, distributor timing and turbo boost pressure. 2 blinks: -20 degrees spark advance correction. Caused by battery voltage less than 10.5 volts. Check the battery and charging circuit. 3 blinks: -20 degrees spark advance correction that can be cancelled only by turning the ignition switch off. The detonation correction circuit in the ignition ECU is defective. Try a new ignition ECU. 4 blinks: -20 degrees spark advance correction that can be cancelled only by turning the ignition switch off. Erroneous signal received from the detonation sensor (check for engine speed above 3200 rpm.) Check the detonation sensor (item 172a) and electrical circuit continuity. 5 blinks: -20 degrees spark advance correction that can be cancelled only by turning the ignition switch off. Signal from the potentiometer is greater than 4.3 volts. Try a new potentiometer (item 194). 6 blinks (a): -20 degrees spark advance correction that can be cancelled only by turning the ignition switch off. Connection and wiring between the ignition ECU and the potentiometer is defective. Check the continuity of the potentiometer's electrical circuit. 6 blinks (b): Spark advance with microswitch open: full load; with microswitch closed: idle. No load signal is emanating from the injection ECU. Check the electrical circuit continuity between pin 8 of the ignition ECU and pin 6 of the injection ECU (item 181) (wire 6). Try a new ignition ECU. Try a new injection ECU.

Values from Politecnic: Danielson camshaft 200 cv Open of the cams : 7,45 mm Total Inlet time open : 278° Total exhaust time open : 289° croisement : 45° Diagram : AOA : 21° RFA : 77° AOE : 85° RFE : 24° ------------------------------------------------------------------- n9*** INT EXTH Stock: 19°34"+56°24" 55°10"+12°50" Dani: 21°+77° 85°+8° Chrysler 1.6GT/1.8 15°+53° 52°12"+15°48" Chrysler 1.8 13°46"+54°14" 50°88"+17°02" Chrysler 2.0 14°46"+61°14" 58°56"+17°14"

Here is breakdown of how the whole adaptive boost control system works-- The wastegate allows exhaust gas to bypass the exhaust turbine, ofcourse. The electrovalve on the N9TEA is placed inline with the hose to the wastegate actuator. There are three connections on the electrovalve-- Pressure from intake (after turbo) Pressure to wastegate actuator Bleed to atmosphere (which goes to intake hose just after airflow meter) When you crank the car up, and hit the gas pedal, the electrovalve is pulsed by the ECU. The pulse openes and closes the bleed orifice. As this point, the electrovalve is bleeding a lot of pressure, i.e., there is very little pressure acting upon the wastegate actuator. When the ECU deems it necessary to reduce boost pressure, it reduces the "on-time" of the electrovalve, causing more pressure to reach the wastegate actuator. This increase in pressure causes the wastegate to open, thereby reducing boost pressure. Disconnecting the electrical connection to the electrovalve causes the N9TEA to act like an N9T or N9TE--but boost pressure will be pretty low, because NO pressure is being bled--all of it is going to the wastegate actuator. BTW, closed and light throttle conditions result in no signal to the electrovalve--I guess to reduce wear on the solenoid. special thanks to Joe Grubbs for the above info

I like the idea of having a 4 series and 5 series forum. That might be a nice touch after we get a few more posts.. The top logo link idea is a good one, though if you click on the 505turbo.com right below it it'll take you back to the homepage. hmmm It is going to be a little tough to seperate the sites technical resources between the forum and site. Either way, there will be links.. The other thing that I don't want to turn people off is the URL. I don't want to imply that this forum is 505 turbo related only ya know? I think if it does take off and people are liking it, i'll purchase another domain so it'll be a striaght up peugeot forum, then i'll just link to it from the 505turbo.com site or something.. sound good? Thanks for your input Rabin, its mucho appreciated! ;-)

I've added a link under the 'main' section to the peugeot-L mailing list archives. I know its ugly, but we're hoping to further integrate it into the site soon.

what! that's quite a throttle foot you have there bud

Your very welcome, I just hope people like it and it turns into a positive thing for the peugeot community. Car looks fresh! You look a little tense though.

aaaah yes, I KNEW I forgot something.. thanks new thread has been created in the general category: http://www.505turbo.com/forum/index.php?showforum=13

Wow, thanks for the post Mike! Great info

Thanks for the feedback Rabin. That is a good idea, and i thought of doing it while setting up the threads. The only thing that turned me away from it was the fact that it would leave too many threads, and barley no posts in either. I was thinking of just letting all the conversation happen in general, then once it seems like there's a croud, create a more organized format. Do you all think that's a good idea? Or do you think the fact that there AREN'T model specific threads it'll shy people away?

yeah no doubt. I'm going to try to get some technical content up in the next day or so.. tell a friend!

HOW in the heck do I get rid of these damn mice that have found a nice new home under my dash!

How do you all like the forum? Is there something you'd like to see added? let us know!