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XD3T Tuning


wadehilts

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Rabin,

I'm in the UK, and so far have been able to find all the rebuild parts on eBay, though the main and big end bearings were shipped free but economy class from Lithuania. Parts were not terribly expensive, roughly...

Main bearings £25

Big end bearings £20

Gasket set £40

Head gasket £30

Valve seals £25

I paid £100 for the engine with about 100k on it and it came with an mt75 gearbox and prop shafts. Seems like the engine has very little wear, but while I'm in there I might as well try to make it as good as I can.  I don't know these prices seem cheap or expensive - this is my first engine rebuild.

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Thanks for that - I was just curious If you searched and bought as Peugeot parts or if they were listed and available via LDV400 parts sources - but that answered my question as well. :)
 

Prices sounded very cheap / reasonable, and they all look high quality.

Rabin

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Hey all,

I took the head off today, and I figured I might as well get it it cleaned up, have the machine shop skim it if necessary and replace the valve seals. The head gasket appears to be a 2-notch Reinz gasket, the third notch around the corner is to indicate XD3T vs XD2S (thanks @Javel for that info!).

@luizsantana where did you find your head gasket? I see many head gaskets on eBay by different manufacturers, but most of them don't show images that are clear enough - so I can't tell if they have more metal between the cylinders. My OEM gasket almost has as much metal in it as your payen-curty head gasket, but it is missing a little bit between the 2 middle cylinders. If you (or anyone else) have advice on where to get the best quality head gasket let me know!

EDIT: I found the gasket that @luizsantana used! https://www.ebay.com/itm/194191423066 (Payen BG160)
it also appears payen BP890 would work as well.. that may be an even newer design. It appears Payen BP890 corresponds to peugeot 0209.C3 and Payen BG160 corresponds to 0209.C2.

I think I'm also going to look into getting some ARP studs to swap in for the head bolts. Studs have better clamping ability than bolts since they do not twist the main shaft of the fastener.

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I asked about studs and was told not to bother because there were so many bolts used you’d never have to worry.

If you do find some that will work however keep us posted!

You might also want to try Cometic - I’ve got one of their HG for the N9TE and it’s very nice.

Rabin

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After reading this anecdote about an XD2S, I got a bit worried about head/gasket issues. It was from the forum post in 2012: (text copied in italics below)

 

Well I know the XD engines can make some power. A long time ago I was tinkering with my old '82 when I worked at Sunset Coachmen. I turned my boost up to ~16psi and adjusted the max fuel delivery screw on the IP. I went a little overboard at first as I created quite a plume of black smoke, but either way the car really did feel much faster. The soft rear suspension really squatted... ahh good ol semi-trailing arms :P

The head had already developed a small crack by that time, and doing that one acceleration run pressurized the cooling system quite a bit as evidenced by the high coolant temperature and burping from the header tank. As you'd imagine, I returned the car to stock once I returned to the shop.

If I were to tune an XD again, I'd definitely make sure the head and head gasket were in tip top shape as that seems to be the weak link even when running stock. The bottom end doesn't worry me though; Forged parts plus the XD2S and XD3T have oil squirters, and the XD3T goes one step further with small oil galleries under the piston crowns to help distribute the heat load.

Barring head/gasket issues, I'd wager you could get a shit ton of power from an XD3T--probably more HP/displacement than the IDI VW guys can get reliably anyway.

I tend to agree with you @Bean that the 22 head bolts on the engine are probably not the weak point. Much more likely cooling system pressure was caused by a cracked head or weak head gasket. If @Javel is correct about the notching system, it appears that the head gasket that @luizsantana shared is for an XD2S as it does not have that additional notch around the corner. Not sure what the practical difference is and if manufacturing techniques varying from company to company are more important.

EDIT: I checked ARP's website and they don't offer M11 stud kits, so it would require more modifications to the design to go up to M12 and use ARP studs. I could probably find fasteners elsewhere but I'm definitely less encouraged to do so now.

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The head gasket removed from mine had 3 notches in a row, and one around the corner. 

I ordered an Elring OE quality gasket from ebay in the UK for £37 and definitely the correct one and identical on every way to the one I removed. They had other thicknesses too (notches in a row denote thickness). I'll stick a link below

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/599402-ELRING-OE-QUALLITY-CYLINDER-HEAD-GASKET-/274627568780?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=710-127635-2958-0

Here is a photo of it 

16317247093976838526303495544955.jpg

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Just make sure you measure piston protrusion as it was common practice to install the 3 notch gaskets by lazy mechanics who didn’t want to bother with measuring, or who would only stock the 3 notch.

Just reiterating these warnings as they were drilled home for years on the Peugeot-L e-mail list.

@wadehilts 22 ARP head studs would also be $$$$!  I got some for when I do my N9TE but there only 10 - albeit 10x M12 which are pretty crazy strong.  (Same size used in the Cummins and Ford diesel truck engines!)

I think gaskets were the weak point on these, so a fresh gasket and clean mating surfaces should be fine for the power increases being sought.

Rabin

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  • 3 weeks later...

Any new updates? In other news I stumbled at the first hurdle and made a hash of installing the rear crankshaft rope seal so having to wait for a replacement that costs half what the whole gasket set cost! 

Anyone know if generic 10mm square graphited gland packing rope is the same as a genuine Ajusa seal, as i can get that off the roll.

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Any rope seal that fits should work - I remember hearing the Jag rope seal just needed to be trimmed to fit.

10mm square would have to be tried, but the original rope seal is quite oval. If it fits, the graphited gland seal might be an upgrade.

Rabin

 

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Oops - I’ve only ever seen the rope seal for the N9TE turbo gas motor!  If you get a chance to take pictures I’d be curious.

Details on the graphited seal would also be good - I’m curious.

Ive seen other engine builders that have updated older rope seals by machining the block to accept a proper press in seal, but that’s not for anyone that doesn’t have ready and available access to an engine shop for cheap!

Rabin

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Hey @LDV_Arthur, have you seen this? https://www.serie04.com/gb/404-bas-moteur-diesel/49117-two-braids-hat-diesel-crankshaft.html

As far as updates go for me, I'm having the head cleaned up at the machine shop. In my quest for head gaskets and head bolts I discovered a couple things:

  1. In 1987, Peugeot updated the head bolt set to eliminate the shortest length bolts and replace them with the medium length bolts. So in the latest kit of head bolts, you should have 2 different lengths of bolt - not 3. I was able to source this updated set of head bolts that I will be using.
  2. I got a proper XD3T head gasket that looks like the one @LDV_Arthur got. The other one that @luizsantanashowed was for an XD2S. It probably would have worked but the notch around the corner indicated XD3T was also probably put there for a reason.

So I'm kind of stalled now until the shop gets back to me about the cylinder head..

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  • 3 weeks later...

Alright y'all little update time! Got the cylinder head back from the machine shop. They were able to retrofit valve seals which was a bonus. Tapped out the threads on the block to clean them out and then greased and installed new bolts.
The whole bolt kit change thing turned out to be quite baffling to me. The French manual states that on older cylinder heads without a V stamping, one should use the newer bolt kit - which basically eliminates the shortest bolts and replaces them with the medium length bolts. So I got the appropriate kit for that and, not surprisingly, the medium length bolts bottomed out before seating on the washer. Fortunately I had an older kit with the short bolts handy and was able to use that. But it was one of those things that made my eye twitch a bit. It's also strange because there is only one XD3T part number for the cylinder head and the block, and I don't understand how longer bolts would be feasible without machining out the block more or having a different head casting. I can't fathom why using the shorter bolts would be problematic so I'm choosing to proceed with the assumption there was an error in the manual.
I'd post pictures but it really isn't anything y'all haven't seen before. Once I set the valves, re-install manifolds, water pump, clutch and pilot bushing I'll be ready to dry fit things in the engine bay and map out an exact intake plumbing.

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Well its been a rough week, I was rear-ended and my 88 505 N9TE wagon in excellent condition was totaled :( Good news is I had agreed value insurance on it for $6k, but that will be a hard one to replace.
In other news, I have a XD3T p
rogress update! I did a super sloppy mock-up of intercooler plumbing today, with the rebuilt head back on and the manifolds re-installed Here are some pictures of my work. I'm obviously going to be cutting things down a bit and dialing in the fitment. Clearance in the engine bay is going to be tight, especially on the firewall end. But I'm hopeful I'll be able to make things work, maybe be readjusting the location of the de-gassing tank. I also included a picture of the engine bay when I got the car for reference.

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Another update, today I fabricated the support bracket for the wastegate actuator. I had an aftermarket one that I'm going to use EBC on. Here is what I came up with, I'm pretty happy with it. I also plan to fabricate and weld on a little sheet metal heat shield that will go over it. As you can see it's pretty close to the exhaust. But I've also used header wrap on the exhaust so hopefully temps wont be too intense.

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Nice work!  
 

You’re really going after the efficiency side with the wrapped cast iron exhaust manifold - heat is energy so good to keep it in.

Are you using a boost controller or just using the wastegate?

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  • 2 months later...

Hi fellas. Just a question from me after a long time not doing anything on my engine. I installed my main bearings which are King brand std size ones for xd3t engine. They are stamped std but when i put the crank in and torque the centre cap bolts past finger tight, the crank locks up completely solid, can't turn it with all my strength. The back sides of the shells and the block face they sit in are scrupulously clean.

Any ideas? Someone else suggested I might be unlucky enough to have mis stamped/packaged bearings that are too big

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