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Blackie


Jayden M

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On 1/2/2023 at 2:14 AM, Bean said:

Have you ever done a compression test on it?

I havnt yet, but I really should. I will get one done in the next couple of days.

As for timing I have been figuring it out, and have practiced on my recently acquired XN6 wagon by settings its timing.

One thing I had to do on the XN6 engine was disconnect the Vacuum line for the distributor, but as the Turbo engine does not have vacuum advance(I think), is there anything electrical I need to disconnect or jump?

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Alright I think i'v got the timing figured out. I got a reading of 12* BTDC which is within spec. In fact I may raise it to around 15* after I do a valve adjustment.

Im doing a compression test now and wonder what PSI reading should I be looking for?

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Not sure what spec you’re reading but pretty sure these are 8 degrees, and they do not like the timing bumped.  I used to sneak in 10, but it ran best when everything was set to OE specs.  I was also running an MSD 6AL ignition box with a MSD blaster coil.

Compression:  anything over 120 psi is decent, but how close all four are is better measurement - they should all be between 5-10% of each other.

Compression after adjusting valves is ideal, and remember to crank it with throttle open when you turn it over.

Rabin

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28 minutes ago, Bean said:

Not sure what spec you’re reading but pretty sure these are 8 degrees

The sticker on the hood says 10* +/- 2 so I just went by that.🤷‍♂️

I did the compression tests and it seems like I have a weak cylinder. Test was done with throttle fully open and cold engine.

Results: (cylinder 1 being at the firewall)

1. 131

2. 116

3. 131

4. 131

Im curious if testing with a warm engine would provide results with more compact readings, I guess there isnt much anything I can do about compression without tearing the engine down.

 

On a side note I have been trying to track down the drivetrain noise. I jacked the rear end up by the trailing arms and ran the car in gear. The noise seems to be coming from the output side of the transmission or somewhere along the Torque tube. Its so hard to tell since it literally vibrates the entire car and resonates off of everything.

Also I was testing my rear brakes which seem to be doing near nothing on this car... While I had the car jacked up running in gear I had to use nearly all the brakes just to get it to overpower the idle of the car... My guess is the rear proportioning valve.

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Another long day of work on the car today. I pulled the half shafts, rotors, differential and driveshaft out and redid my sound test to track down the noise. The noise is gone with all the components out. On a side note the differential that I just recently put in now has a large amount of metallic flakes in its fluid when I drained it... however the noise does not seem to come from the rear. Im Kind of stumped of what to do next. It might be time to swap the torque tube out with the spare 505 turbo.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Big progress update on Blackie!

It's been a long few weeks, but the car is as disassembled as it needs to be. I plan to replace all the drivetrain components (apart from the engine). I have removed literally all of the drivetrain except the engine. So transmission, torque converter, torque tube, and rear end assembly are all out. I have already removed both drivetrain setups from Blackie and Whitie, so I am ready to start reinstalling parts.          (Pics of everything tomorrow hopefully... its so much stuff its kind of scary)

This is my first time replacing a transmission, and so while I have all these parts out is there anything I should do while its out?

Also the temptation of manual swapping this thing is crazy since I have all the parts to do it sitting in my garage... but Im saving that for another project.

 

I Hope you guys are enjoying your Peugeots... I know I am and mine just hangs out on jack stands :D.

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Another day working on the drive-train replacement, and I am currently wrestling the 'new' transmission into place. Being my first time replacing a transmission I am struggling a bit. I cant get the bell-housing to completely sit against the back of the engine, its that last 1/2 inch. I have been told not to use the bolts to seat the transmission onto the engine, so I am trying to just push.

Here is everything I have removed for the operation:

 

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Make sure the TC was seated properly, there’s nothing that needs to engage since the TC just bolts to the flex plate.  Do not use the bolt to snug up ever!  And get some wood between the Jack and oil pan of the trans!

I’ve always used a strap around the trans and up into the car around a 4x4 across the hole.  Once strapped into position the tranny is way easier to move/jiggle into place.

Rabin

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Thanks Rabin, you were right the torque converter was not seated into the transmission fully. After pushing the TC in fully I was able to get the bellhousing flush to the back of the engine.

Just have a quick question on the driveshaft that sits in the torque tube, should I be greasing the ends up?

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Just test drove the car with the new Transmission and torque tube. The sound is the exact same as it was before, except this transmission is occasionally reluctant to come out of first. A great learning experience I guess... but was completely a waste of time. Hopefully a few miles on this transmission will make it work properly.

Next up is a Valve adjustment, and some Polyurethane control bushings, then I can *hopefully* enjoy this car. 😬

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Can you maybe record the noise in the car?  Is it audible enough to pick up or more of a vibration?

In gear or neutral make a difference? On power or coasting?  Clutch in or clutch out?

Sucks for sure, but definitely a learning experience.

Rabin

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  • 3 weeks later...

The sound is definitely audible, everyone that rides in it wonders what that sound is and the sound changes from being in gear to neutral to coasting to under load, but always makes a noise. Higher speed = more noise.

Have not driven the car much as once I get on the highway I notice some extreme instability of the car. It just weaving left and right constantly. I found the issue to be inside the rear right wheel bearing... There is so much play in there compared to the left side. This car really does live on jack stands. :D

Also I checked the valves, everything was right on the tight end of the spec. With the valves checked I think this car finally has been gone through completely in terms of stock engine performance. I might do a little playing around with the Timing, or maaaaybe up the boost a hair.

I still am not happy with the engine though because it is leaking a fair amount of oil between the block and head.

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  • 4 months later...
On 2/15/2023 at 1:30 PM, Bean said:

Can you maybe record the noise in the car?

I found the issue finally... it was not what I expected. I now have TWO Torsen differentials that have gone bad. What are the odds of that. I threw in a Open diff from another turbo and the sound is gone completely. The open diff is a 3.46 compared to stock 3.89 which doesn't make the car feel any better, even though its soooooooooooooooooo much quieter. Does anyone know where I can get a Torsen rebuilt? For now I think I will put the 4.11 LSD from the burnt 86 STI into Blackie - mostly for the LSD part, but having shorter ratios sounds intriguing as well. I would prefer the original Torsen and 3.89 because im a sucker for keeping this car stock but I think thats unlikely.

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I don’t know of anyone that would tackle them, but I’d be willing to buy one to see if I can fix it…

If there is a fix then I could document it so you can fix the other.  (Or get both and send one back to you if I fix it)

Im not even sure what in the diff could make a noise like that…  Gotta either be bearings or the ring and pinion have worn out - Do any of the axles or the pinion have excessive play?

Rabin

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Just now, Bean said:

Gotta either be bearings or the ring and pinion have worn out - Do any of the axles or the pinion have excessive play?

The original Torsen diff from Blackie spins freely and quietly by hand. It also had very little play just like the open diff. I do not know what it sounds like in the car, but I will take Joe's word it was making a noise 20 years ago

The Torsen diff from Whitie on the other hand... this one does NOT spin freely. It binds up sometimes as I spin the input shaft, and it has many times more play than the other differentials. It also makes weird noises as I spin it.

I do not know my way around the inside a diff let alone a Torsen one. The Torsen from whitie will never be used in my cars the way it is. I could open it up and maybe you could tell if something was wrong?

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Play on the input shaft or the axles? Play would mean bearings being shot, and if they’re shot then the ring and pinion likely worn.

I know how they work, and I’d guess whatever the issue is with it *should* be readily apparent.  Wether it can be repaired will depend on what it is and what kind of access to repairs you’d have.

I’m lucky in that I live in an agricultural based economy and have contacts and friends that have full machine shops - that said - if it’s not an “easy” fix or needs parts that are unobtainable then cost of repair limits if it can be repaired.

If you did pull it apart I’d of course help anyway I could.

Rabin

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Just now, Bean said:

Play on the input shaft or the axles?

I spin the input shaft back and forth by hand a bit and can see the outputs on left and right not moving until I turn the input shaft a good bit more. Plus as I spin the input shaft round and round it gets caught and is hard to turn sometimes.

If im lucky I could possibly use the 2 torsens to get 1 working one. I'll open it up and shoot some pics tomorrow.

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Another option would be to see if a regular diff could be used as the donor to fix the Torsen diff.

I bought a spare Torsen but my brother Arun accidentally installed it in his car.  I think it may have been when he accidentally installed the Uber rare factory sport springs I found as well.  Poor guy is really accident prone!

Rabin

 

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I pulled apart whities Torsen diff. I took the Torsen unit out just leaving the input shaft assembly in, and still it makes grinding noises and binds when I spin the input shaft without the Torsen unit even in, so perhaps the Torsen unit is fine and the issue is just a bearing at the input shaft. Would I be able to grab a bearing from a spare diff and retain the 3.89 stock ratio even though my spare diff is a 4.11 ?

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That looks really good in the housing - no sludge or sparkly metal bits!

There should be some sort of pinion bolt holding the pinion gear in - If you can remove that pinion then you should be able to get a number off the bearing.  I’d only use a used bearing if it was the only option.

Gear teeth appear to be good but if you can do close up pics of both pinion gear and ring teeth, as well as the bearings on axle (rollers and race) that should indicate what if any wear exists.

Rabin 

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Peugeot Sport offered optional sport springs for the 505 Turbo - the plan was to have them copied so that we could offer them for sale.  The cool part of him installing them however is he said they’re fantastic - he’s had them on his car at VIR and they were better than his coil over set up he had made.

Still the plan if we can get them off the car and to a spring manufacturer.

One option might be to install the Torsen center into a known good diff - You can’t mix pinions and ring gears, they have to stay paired, and if you did swap the Torsen into say a 4.11 then you’d need to verify gear engagement and any play in the diff were all in spec.

Rabin

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Just now, Bean said:

the plan was to have them copied so that we could offer them for sale

SIGN ME UP! I would absolutely buy a set of those springs. Especially for the track oriented 505 im building.
About those springs are they intended for ABS shocks and are they just front or rear springs? Do they lower the ride height? Any idea if and when you will be able to pull those springs off your brothers 505 Turbo and what sort of cost we'd be looking at? Speaking of ABS shocks, what are your suggestions for shocks as all of my ABS shocks are getting very worn and seeping fluid (Front and Rear). Everyone I have talked to says the ABS shocks are not rebuildable and they are of course unobtainable type parts.

Back to the diff issue... you say I cant mismatch pinion and ring gears, but can I replace the pinion bearing without replacing the pinion gear itself? Looks like another learning step as I have no idea about setting gear lash/engagement and as usual barely know what I am doing. Always something new with this car

I'll take close ups in a bit.

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Axle bearing race picture?  The pinion does look a little rough, but ring gear doesn’t look bad - but pictures aren’t good enough to tell.  You might need to take apart at good diff to compare pinion gear teeth condition.

I think I’d try swapping the Torsen center section into a different diff.  If the ring bolts up you should be golden.

Rabin

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