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405 Mi16 Restoration.


Jayden M

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Car has been sitting in my dads (Jonathan) driveway for 16 years, during none of that time did the door even get open. Going into this restoration with minimal experience & knowledge, hopefully this group can back me up :D. Thought I would share my progress with everyone.

Current known faults of the car: Driver door takes 1-5 tries to open the door. Passenger front door wont open. Passenger rear door wont open from inside. Intank fuel pump does not run. External Fuel pump does not run. Passenger indicator doesn't work. Makes weird beeping when turning key (not sure if that is intended). Driver indicator is missing cover. Timing belt is usable, but needs a new one ASAP (why it was stopped driving in first place). 2 horn buttons on steering wheel broke... wtf? Also bird poop inside the car after sitting for 16 years... again wtf?

Things fixed so far: Driver door actually opens now. (sadly no pictures, but I will post pictures of everything I do from now :D).

Already just ordered a new fuel pump, and will be replacing it in a few days. Not sure how well the car will run without the intank pump. It's a mystery with whats wrong with it.

Just a few pictures:

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I have tried to start engine multiple times already, but I did inspect timing belt, used boroscope to check inside engine a little, but I am not expert so I ask you, Mike T what you think will happen If I do fire the engine? You scare me

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Today I installed the new fuel pump on the Mi16, and while taking the old pump out the intake fuel hose cracked. So I cut down the hose, and used a L brass connector and some new 3/8 fuel hose, and now no leaks!, I really thought the car would start now, but it hasnt appeared to make a difference yet... There is fuel coming out of the intake hose to the fuel rail, but my guess is the injectors are not opening.

 

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Pull a spark plug or insert a spark plug in a HT lead, and rest it against a valve cover bolt to ground it, crank it and look does it have spark, also look at the check engine light on the dash is it lighting up dose it flash, also check the ecu box, under hood upper right corner i've had it fill up with water and my mi16 did not start.

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If you are buying , you can buy starting fluid, its more of a gas, my thinking is to get the engine firing, that will start to circle the injectors, and will push thru the old fuel and should keep running on its own. May need to do it couple of times, spray a little start to use a bit of throttle till i keeps running, in my experience engines that sit for years loose compression, the piston rings stick in the pistons on diesels i use ATF on petrol engines i spray some easily flammable liquid that makes quick movments and gets them going.

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If the car was sitting outside for 16 years the bores may be rusted (what did you see on the boroscope?), rings stuck, oil sludge buildup, just a big honking mess.  Unless measures were taken when the car was parked to set the engine up for storage, it's not likely to be reliable even if you get it running.  A full teardown would be preferable.  Assess everything and replace what's broken or worn out.

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I've started and run cars that have been sitting for 10 years without any difficulty, i've had couple with rusty cylinder bores, it's noticeable i do an oil change after i get them fired up and you can see the rust in the oil. But i don't think Jayden will have that issue because he doesn't have any open ports, all the air going in the engine must pass thru a paper air filter. I've only found rust in engines with open carburetors. Also the Mi16 have oil squirters which shoot oil on the back of the piston and it drips down the cylinder walls and keeps them covered with oil.

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on the boroscope I could see a bit of what appeared to be carbon build up on top of the piston, but it wasnt that bad. I could still see a good amount of shiny metal (surprisingly). All around there is extremely small amounts of rust on the car (surprisingly). Each cylinder has sound of compression, each cylinder seems a little different, but not to bad, maybe i'll get lucky with this car.

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If it were me I’d change the oil first with some cheap no name oil from Walmart or wherever first. Pull oil filter and fill with fresh oil and reinstall.

I’d pull the plugs, squirt a few shots of oil or wd40 or PB Blaster down the holes, and then crank it over with the plugs out to build oil pressure and circulate oil quickly.

Reinstall plugs after it cranks over for a minute or so, then try starting it ensuring it has fresh fuel in tank.

Rabin

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Don't use WD40 in the cylinders, it kills the spark plugs, i've also had bad experience using 2 stroke mix gasoline when starting engines that have been sitting, it kills the spark plugs. I always change the oil after the first initial start up, is best to get the gunk and old dirty oil out.

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Wd40 or something similar just to prevent dry piston movement. I’ve done it countless times and never had an issue with plugs. Most everything is expelled out the plug holes anyway as you crank without any plugs installed (so the motor spins faster and builds pressure quicker).

I also change the oil before cranking with cheap oil so only fresh clean oil is circulated, once the car is running well and has no issues after 500-1000K I then do a proper change to synthetic and a new filter.

Before they changed the wd40 formula you used to be able to prime an engine on wd40 - used to do that as well as it was less volitile than brake clean or ether.

Rabin

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  • 2 weeks later...

Update on the 405:
 Took off the fuel rail, and took injectors out to test the injectors. Injectors all click, but wont spray anything. I tried spraying some carb cleaner and brake cleaner in the injector, but still they wont spray. Called around places near me, may have somebody to clean the injectors for me. Been trying to fix the door, since it would not latch closed, I had it held up with a bungee cord, haha. Got that fixed, so now I am trying to get front right door to open. The rod shown in a picture below wont move, I think something is stuck, same with the outside handle, you cant fully pull it because something is stuck. The door is unlocked. Any ideas?  - while working I turned the radio on.. just to see... and to my surprise the sound system is super high quality... surprisingly after sitting for 16 years

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Yeah, all 4 of the 505's I have all doors work, but on the 405 only the Rear left door worked... Fixed front left, and sorta rear right. Trunk also wont open (which is annoying since I kinda need the spare wheel). Hood wouldn't latch at some point either.... haha

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  • 2 weeks later...

Engine still the same.... Got all 4 injectors working nicely, and cleaned up by a professional. All 4 have a solid clicking sound, so they should be working. I tested that power was getting to the plugs, and it is. (plugs are brand new). Compression sounded great 2 weeks ago, now 2 cylinders are giving a fairly small wizzing sound... which is annoying, but the engine should start or at least give some poofs even with 1/2 the cylinders acting up. To make sure the pump was delivering fuel to the rail, I started pulling the intake fuel hose off the rail, and as soon as I loosened it, some fuel started leaking out, I'm probably going to check how much comes out of the fuel line as my next step, and then try manually pouring gasoline into the fuel rail. For now I am pretty stumped. I heard Mi16 uses like premium gas? And its currently using 16 year old gas + regular gas, so maybe that has something to do with it.

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Draining the old gas should be easy if you have the fuel line disconnected, i would advise get as much of the old gasoline out and fill it with fresh gas. Filling the fuel rail with gas won't do anything that gasoline needs to be at 3 bar pressure to spray. 

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The 160hp Mi16 engine have higher compression they like premium gasoline, my mi16x4 was pulling timing on 95 octane, i've run 100 octane gasoline in it or LPG wich is 104 octane. As for the US models i think they have 9.5:1 compression so they need 93 octane to run to its full power but for starting it doesn't matter.

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Oh okay. Interesting about the fuel rail needing 3 bar. Im thinking maybe there was some air bubbles in the line, and I need to let them flush out, but dang I put like 5 gallons in the tank haha. Oh well its gotta come out. You think old gas keep it from starting if all else is working? Also I thought it was 150hp or is that only US. I think I was using 85 or 87 octane. Didnt think about how all the pugs prefer premium

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The fuel pump is cycling the fuel thru the fuel rail and back in the tank when is running, so no bubbles. Here in europe we go two models of the Mi16 engine, low compression 9.5:1 making 147hp and high compression 10.5:1 making 160hp in the late 80's that was very impressive power from a normally aspirated engine with no variable valves and no turbo. Did you find the white wire that goes to the fuel pump in the black box on the left side of the engine. Jump power to it put the hose from the fuel rail in a fuel can and watch all the old gas come out.

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I think I have found the issue. There is a sort of small thing near the battery compartment, it looks like a small fuel filter, or a regulator. I took the intake hose off the fuel rail, and its just dribbling out, like someone is drooling... So I next went back to the fuel pump, and it is shooting out gas real good like it should, so I went to the small fuel filter thing I was talking about, and I took off the intake hose, and it was blasting out pretty good, so its got to be that small filter looking thing.... what even is it haha?

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That is a pressure buffer, it keeps the fuel pressure more even, car can run without it, but is installed for a reason, simple brass barbed fitting, can be used to bypass it, just connect the hoses. I'm not sure how can it fail, its a diaframma with a spring if it's blocked there must be something blocking it, try blowing it out if you found dirt then change the fuel filter and blow out the fuel lines. 

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