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On 7/19/2020 at 10:13 PM, Mike T said:

It reminds me of the 1300 cc Renault 8 Gordini - 4200 RPM minimum to be happy (and on the cam).

My Mi16x4 has what i was told regarded camshafts, it also hates low RPM, anything under 2000-2500 rpm just doesn't make any power, but above 4500-5000 rpm when it get on the camshaft it pulls harder and harder, with the close ratio gearbox it was a pleasure to drive it hard, until the transfer box went out then i convert it to FWD and become understeering tire frying POS. I do miss driving it, maybe one of this days, i'll find a deal on a standalone ECU and that will motivate me to get it back on the road.

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Wow, hard to believe my thread has reached 10 pages...I guess I'm a true Peugeot owner now, ha...

I'm hoping to hear from the shop in the next day or so, will update here what their findings were...

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Ok guys, got the car back from the shop today...some interesting findings...

First of all, they found a couple very small vacuum leaks via a smoke test and then repaired/replaced the lines. Ok, good start. Second, they ultrasonically cleaned the injectors, so that's great too. And finally, the last issue, the CEL...still on, ha...

They think I might have a bad ecu, and I think they're probably right. We're at the point where just about everything has been replaced, and this is about the only conclusion to come to at this point. They couldn't even clear the code (52)...

I still have the spare ecu from the guy I bought my car from, going to test it again and see. There were still other issues with my car the last time I tested the ecu, so maybe now that everything else has been done, this will be a better time to test and be able to trust the findings...

Having said all this, I can honestly say I'm at a point with the car that I'm very pleased with. It runs and drives excellent, it's comfortable, suspension and brakes are great, the exterior and interior both cleaned up incredibly well...it's really turned into the car I hoped it would be...

Going to continue to drive it a lot this season and monitor everything, as well as test the spare ecu. Worst case scenario, it doesn't change anything and I have an occasional intermittent cel light coming on and off. Given all the effort thrown at the car over this, if that is all that remains, I suppose I can live with that...

I washed and spray waxed the car and cleaned the interior today after getting the car home, and then took it on a long driver this evening. Some photos because why not...

It's great to have it back, I actually really missed it...

 

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And on an entirely different note, and while I know this was covered earlier, here are some photos of my glovebox arrangement. You should all do this, as I imagine your gloveboxes are all as blown apart and rattly as mine was. Nothing left to squeak or rattle when it's all gone inside...not to mention easy access to the underdash componentry...that is if you can live without a glovebox...

 

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Ok all, just as I thought the car was "done" as far as maintenance and repairs, a new one (2 actually) cropped up...

It's been a custom since working on this car to check underneath before and after each ride to make sure things are ok. Well, the other day I noticed the driver side inner cv boot let go and much of it's grease all over my otherwise cleaned up undercarriage. Not only that, but I noticed the inner on the passenger side also has a small slit. Yay...

Oh well, put a call into the mechanic, he's booked a couple weeks out, so in the meantime I cleaned everything up as best as I could, re-packed with some bearing grease, and found some self fusing silicon tape I had and wrapped the hell out of both sides. Should be good enough to get me to the shop...

Edit: Ordered all 4 boots from Peugeot Holm, glad to finally do some business with him...

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I've driven months with ripped boots, the inner joints are much more robust, don't be that concerned, water is the biggest enemy, i've washed my joints with gasoline and use graphite grease. I'll attach pictures from the last axle i changed boot on i think it was on my 607. The 405 have some of the easyest axles to take apart they don't have C springs at the end, onece you release the boot the joint can be pulled off by hand, i advise you only remove the outer Cv joint you'll have access to change both boots, if you have dirt and grit then you'll must clean them, the inner sometimes stay together, sometime the needle bearings can fall out. And you should drain the gearbox oil, the level is above the axle holes, simple drain and refill when done. I hope this helps.

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Goce, thank you very much, this is certainly helpful, I will show this info. to my mechanic. While it's nice to know that I can go for a while without doing this, it's not really my style, plus he has availability next week, so good enough reason to just knock them out now...

Different note, I did try the "spare" ecu that is was supposedly tested good, based on the shop's determination that I may have a bad ecu (after cleaning the injectors, and finding/fixing 2 very small vacuum leaks, they were still unable to clear and keep the cel off). The messed up part is that this ecu actually made the car run quite terribly, even the stumbling and hesitating came back during the test drive. That had not happened in a couple months, and it was not fun to experience again, (peugeot ptsd...). I guess maybe the spare ecu isn't good after all???

In any event, I put my original ecu back in and everything seemed fine again (of course, still have the on/off cel), but I did foul the middle 2 plugs again when that other ecu was in. So again, I just put 4 new plugs back in, and everything seems right back to where it was...seems I'll be living with a very nice running and driving Mi16 that has the occasional cel while at idle...

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Maybe it's not the ECU but the loom, it's easy to find what's wrong when a wire is just cut but bad grounds, corroded wires, damaged connectors or dry solder joints that's another story.

If you test for continuity you find it's all good but as soon as you try it the thing is dead for a few hours then back to "normal" on the continuity test. It can also work like a charm half the time and not at all the other half.

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That's a great point and I started to think the same thing too. That might have to be a winter project, diving into something at that level...

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Hey guys, some updates...

Went to my mechanic's today to install my new cv/axle boots, but realized we did not have the proper clips. So that will be another day. But not a total loss, as we installed the new fuel pumps (both in tank and outside the tank). This was not needed, but I had already bought them and figured they were the last pieces in the fuel system that I had yet to replace. So that's done...

Next up, I wanted to revisit my injectors. The shop that cleaned them, did so with a product through the fuel rail, and while maybe it helped, it still didn't give me a full understanding of the health and operation level of them. So when I got home today, I decided why wait any longer. Off they came, and here are the findings. Cylinders 2 and 3 were pretty gunked up, compared to 1 and 4. See photos...

The injectors are at a machine shop that does ultrasonic cleaning and bench testing. They should be done tomorrow, and I'll promptly re-install them. Really thinking the state of these could be behind my on/off cel...causing slight misfires, leaning out the mixture, etc...

 

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I've seen better, i've seen worse typical for 29 year old car, ethanol fuels that are now at the gas pumps cause real issues for older cars. Did you found a place to check the air/fuel mixture, dyno places have the equipment and knowledge to do it.

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Hi Goce,  I have not looked into testing the air fuel just yet, want to get through this phase of work first and see where it took me. On my way to pick up the injectors as we speak, they told me that all four had some restrictions with the filters,  but they cleaned up well and are flowing very nicely now, so going to clean the head ports really well before reinstalling today and see where we end up…

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Disconnect the battery overnight, and when you fire it up for the first time let it idle up to temp, then drive it and again let it idle in that time check engine will come on as it makes new fuel map, then give it a spirited drive and tell as do you feel the difference. See how it reacts on throttle/ off throttle and do you get small pop in the exhaust when shifting at redline.

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Fuel rail cleanings are - at best - only good for regular maintenance, same with the in tank cleaners.  The only proper way to clean them is to do what you're doing now. Once clean they should be able to ensure they've got nice spray patterns, and ideally are matched flow wise as well so that they're all within a certain cc/min.

The condition of the injectors, and the fact that 2 & 3 were also the plugs fouling means this looks very promising as the root cause of the issues.  My guess was that atomization sucked bad, so at low RPM it wouldn't burn as well which caused the O2 CEL - also way those were the plugs that fouled.

Rabin

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1 hour ago, Bean said:

Fuel rail cleanings are - at best - only good for regular maintenance, same with the in tank cleaners.  The only proper way to clean them is to do what you're doing now. Once clean they should be able to ensure they've got nice spray patterns, and ideally are matched flow wise as well so that they're all within a certain cc/min.

The condition of the injectors, and the fact that 2 & 3 were also the plugs fouling means this looks very promising as the root cause of the issues.  My guess was that atomization sucked bad, so at low RPM it wouldn't burn as well which caused the O2 CEL - also way those were the plugs that fouled.

Rabin

Totally agree. Hoping you're right. Will report back once reinstalled...

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Well guys, my car finally may be fixed… 

The new injectors went in this evening, and I fired up the car, and it started in a way that it is never started before in my tenure of ownership. It was very smooth, consistent, none of the lumpiness that I had before, although I never realized how bad it was either since it is all I ever knew. Most telling though, is that after idling for quite a while and getting up to temperature, the CEL never came on at all...

It is late now, calling it a night, will report back again tomorrow…

Hard to even describe this feeling, but it is exciting to say the least…

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Congrats!  Can’t wait to read the report from its next shake down run.

If it is fixed - Who wins the diagnosis sweepstakes?  I believe I suggested checking injectors on 06/15 and on 06/25 figured injectors 2 & 3 had to be the cause of the fouling plugs.  Did I win?  :)

Rabin

 

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Ha, what can I say Rabin, you win. I agreed with you then, and probably should have done this sooner, however I was kind of working my way through the fuel system, and the injectors were the last stop on the ride. Took a little longer to get here, but that's ok. The fuel system is now completely new (both fuel pumps, fuel filter, FPR, and now correctly cleaned injectors), and I have no regrets on that end...

Again, not going to say we're done, but with how nicely it idled up on the cold start, hard to imagine it isn't. At the very least, it idles wayyyy better. I didn't even realize it until now, since it has only been in that state since I've owned the car...

Send me your address for where to send the flowers...

 

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I'm glad to hear that joe, what have we learn, on any car after 10 years the fuel injectors need attention. if it's that bad i can't wait to hear your thoughts on the power delivery of the engine, it's shame peugeot never exported the 160hp mi16 in the US the high compression engines are much more lively and free revving.

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Ok guys, I think we're going to call this car fixed...

Just drove the car about 40 miles, ran excellent, no cel at all, and again the cold start was great...

Going to continue to drive and monitor everything, but these early results are fantastic...

Before I forget, let me use this opportunity to extend my sincere thanks and gratitude to everyone here on this forumthat has helped guide and educate me throughout this process over the last several months. This car was a particular challenge for me for many reasons, mostly due to the lack of parts, people willing to work on it, and just general lack of information out there. Without you guys, this car would not be where it is today. I am so appreciative, and I hope my daughter who will be driven around in this quite a bit learns to love the car as well…

Many updates still to come…

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Changing gears a little bit here, let's talk about oil temperature...

I know several pages ago I expressed some concern over my oil temp., and the consensus seemed to be that my readings (assuming the gauge is to be believed), were normal. I've also done a lot of reading on engine oil temp. as well, and some interesting findings. From all I've read, oil temp. around 230-260 is supposedly not just normal, but even good. This seems awfully high to me, but that's what I've found. With synthetic oils (I use Mobil 1), you can apparently be well north of 300 degrees. Not even sure engines can handle this?

Anyways, let's talk about the markings on the oil temp. gauge specifically with the Peugeot. Starting with the relevant markings, it has a 190 reading, and then 2 blank dashes, and then 300 is the last one. Assuming they are spaced evenly (which they appear to be), those middle dashes would represent ~37 degree increments, so it would go 190, ~227, ~264, and then finally 300.

So lately, my car has not only been running at the ~227 dash pretty consistently (seems like before it would be somewhere between the 190, and ~227 dash, usually the middle area, I'd imagine around 210ish), but I've noticed lately it has temporarily gone past the ~227 mark when driving it harder, but not much and not for long, probably topping around 240-250 if I had to guess, and then it settles back on the ~227 mark. I posted a picture below from my drive yesterday. Important to note it has been quite hot and humid these days, mid 80's and high humidity. Using the a/c does not seem to affect this, fyi.

Here' are my questions. Is the slight increase in operating temp. concerning to any of you? Is it because of the outside temp. being so high? Do your Mi16's exhibit similar behavior? Anything I can do to bring the temp. down (changing oil type,/viscosity, add oil cooler, etc.), or do I not want to do that?

Thanks in advance guys...

 

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