91MR2 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Ok guys, spent the last several hours at the garage...here's where I'm at... Just to recreate the scenario of what seemingly fixed the car last time, I put the old rotor back on with the new distributor. No change. So with new plugs, new cap and either new or old rotor, still stumbling at times, and then running fine at times. Maybe it was just a coincidence that the car ran fine for a week when I last replaced the cap, and the wires are having intermittent arcing issues or are just plain worn out. It seems that is all it can be, since that is the one thing I did not replace. They are now on order... Thougths? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Try the insulation tape method, it's worked for years for me, get some better quality vinyl insulation tape, wrap it tight from the cable over the silicone boot 50% overlap all the way down to inside the spark plug hole on the boot. Try a spark plug for fit on the boot if it fits loosely try one more layer of thigh isolation tap if is still loose i've used O rings on the spark plug groves. Do it on all 4 and try it, you also need to try it driving low rpm high load. if it splatters or misfires then you may have a bad spark plug. Try this, it's worked for me always, insulation tape is cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRDT Posted May 17, 2020 Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Did you check the fault codes on the ECU ? Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 17, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2020 Thanks guys, I will try wrapping them with electrical tape just until my new spark plug wires arrive. I have not tested the codes yet, will be doing that this coming week. Good advice guys, keep it coming, I will take all the help and guidance I can get with this car… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 21, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Update time... Wrapping the spark plugs wires didn't help, but my new set should be arriving by the end of this week, so fingers crossed on them fixing the stumbling issue... Re. the on/off CEL and idle surging, I have not been able to successfully check the codes. I am following the directions as I understand them, but my CEL just stays on the entire time? No idea what I'm doing wrong as it seems very straight forward... As far as progress today, cleaned up the fog lights in their bezels and re-installed, and a good friend came over and we aligned the car, at least it now tracks straight again with all the new suspension work...   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 21, 2020 Report Share Posted May 21, 2020 Joe, sorry to hear that, are your wires right way on the distributor cap, i've come across cap that was marked wrong, Peugeot counts its cylinders from the gearbox towards the timing belt, every other manufacturer that other way around. About getting the codes, only two possibility, wrong wire or you are counting to fast, as memory serves you need to hold the wire connected to ground 30 seconds and it will begin, i've made me a extended cable with alligator clip for ground, paper clip on the connector side and a moment switch on the other side. That way i can seat down in the driver's seat and have good view of the check engine and little engine symbol so i can count the blanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 22, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Goce, wires have to be on right, otherwise the car wouldn't really run right at all, would it? I mean, the car will run fine, then run like crap and hesitate/stumble, etc. My new spark plug wires came in today and I installed them, but to no avail, exact same problems...got an O2 sensor on order, hoping that might be it...at this point I'm just throwing parts at it, which, while unscientific, is not an entirely bad thing since parts are cheap, and many things on the car are probably near the end of their life cycle anyways... Have an appt. this weekend with my mechanic, maybe he can figure out how to pull the code... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 The Mi16 uses waste spark ignition as many cars of its era, if you are one lead off there is still chance it will run but you will notice it, can you explain the " hesitate/stumble, etc" , when it started, did it do it when it's cold, or starts when it idles down, can you drive it and tell as is it more pronounced at low rpm or higher rpm, have you driven it more than 45 min so the engine can clean off the spark plugs. Those engines are not that problematic, there is something simple that we are missing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 I seem to remember the Mi-16 had a temp sensor, and it’s plug could cause running issues...  Replacing sensor and verifying connector and wires were good would make a big difference - But hopefully Savo can weigh in on details. What kind of idle control valve does the Mi-16 use?  That would be my only other guess. Rabin   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 That is why i ask when it acts up, there are two manufactures of ECU temp sensors, bitron and bosch, i've personally never had a bosch fail on me, but the others have, but then i throw a code and is running rich, it stinks of fuel. Mi16 uses 2 wire idle control valve that is external and on top of the intake manifold, the engine will still run even if it is unplugged without load. I'm starting to suspect the ignition ignitor, i've had one partly fail on me as well as andre on his 91. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 22, 2020 Report Share Posted May 22, 2020 Link to andre's 91 with similar problems.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my3AWDgst Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 ^^^^ guess who’s in driver seat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 Big update, got the code figured out, after realizing the ground had to be released. It was code 52, so oxygen sensor, which many here had predicted. Not sure this will resolve all my running issues, but it's a start...just waiting on the part to arrive now... In the meantime, replaced my passenger side sway bar bushings (driver's side on the way in the mail), boy were these shot... Followed up with cleaning up the wheel wells and a powerwash... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 25, 2020 Latest update, dash is out. I had a conversation with Savo about this, and he confirmed that what we're looking at here in these photos is the way they wrapped these harnesses from the factory. I'm still in shock over this. I've mostly dealt with japanese cars, and their taping is pretty great... One of the main reasons I wanted to pull the dash was due to the look of the wiring/taping, because it was easy to assume someone else had been in there poking around and doing something. Well, I think it is safe to assume that is not the case now, so I'm a bit relieved for that part... However, the left and right side grommets that the dash connects through the firewall are missing, so it does seem like the dash has been out before. Would love more thoughts on this... Edit: ignore the zip ties, I had to reconnect the harness to drive the car home... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goce Posted May 26, 2020 Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 I don't see the reason why you've pulled the dash out, the engine has its own separate wiring loom, and can run independent of the chassis, all it needs 2 power wires and couple of grounds, if you are suspecting loose connection check the connectors between the engine and chassis loom located behind the drivers headlight, they are not sealed connectors, and can cause issues on higher mileage or rusty cars, that was one of the changes peugeot made on the series 2 of the 405 the use sealed connectors in the engine bay. As far your wiring looks factory to me, i've often found the boot that goes to the engine bay to be pulled out. Over the years people run all kind of accessories, stereos and that is the only place to gain access, so no big surprise that is pulled out. There are two ground points that are known to rust and course electrical problems on the interior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted May 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 Goce, dash was pulled because upon looking underneath I saw what looked like non-factory taping and I wanted to see who/what may have gone on under there at some point in time... Savo pretty much told me that the taping quality that you see in the photos above is factory. This still shocks me. As I told him, I'm used to japanese cars, where the taping is pretty much perfect, even Lotus does a good job. But apparently this is how Peugeot wrapped their harnesses back then... The good news is I had a good look around once the dash and harness were out, nothing seemed to have ever been messed with, so I gave everything a good cleaning and reassembled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted June 1, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 So how about it guys, that wiring/taping look factory? Just looking for more opinions here... Also, more updates coming this week... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bean Posted June 1, 2020 Report Share Posted June 1, 2020 Both Savo and Goce said it looked factory and those two know them best on here so it has to be so.  505's use something similar that looks like regular electricians tape, but only certain sections have adhesive, so it usually unravels easily when you need to take it off. I usually replace with plastic split loom whenever I can as it's cheap and does a decent job. Rabin  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Rabin, I certainly take them at their word, but with how few of these cars out there, and so few people into them, the more input the better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 Some updates, all... We got the idle surge seemingly sorted. It had an issue with the throttle cable, and a simple adjustment fixed that. The stumbling/hesitation issue "seems" to be sorted as well. Between all the issues that were going on, my "new" plugs had developed some fouling issues on cylinders 2 and 3. Another new set of plugs and a fresh full tank of fuel made a huge difference. The car now has new plugs, cap, rotor, and wires. So far, the sum of these parts have gotten us somewhere, as it is running fantastic at the moment... The CEL is the last issue at the moment still frustrating us. The code was 52, which indicates an O2 sensor (most likely). We don't seem to have an vacuum leaks, and the ECU seems to have good communication. But a new O2 sensor hasn't really helped, as we are still getting code 52. My mechanic is going to continue some diagnostics on this tomorrow, but we have checked just about everything at this point. We have gotten it pretty much to the point where the CEL pretty much only comes on at idle, or when you're coming up to a stop sign or red light, and then when you take off again it goes off and pretty much stays off when the car is driving and under load. Any guidance or thoughts here would be welcomed...  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike T Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 What's the weather like there? My former 405 loved to throw CELs for no apparent reson when it was cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estland Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 As I understand, code 52 means that the correct fuel-air mixture can't be achieved. It's mainly caused by air leaks (inlet side or exhaust manifold side). Can also be caused by worn out air flow meter carbon track giving wrong data to ecu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 12 hours ago, Mike T said: What's the weather like there? My former 405 loved to throw CELs for no apparent reson when it was cold. Weather has been fine, 70's and 80's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
91MR2 Posted June 4, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 hours ago, estland said: As I understand, code 52 means that the correct fuel-air mixture can't be achieved. It's mainly caused by air leaks (inlet side or exhaust manifold side). Can also be caused by worn out air flow meter carbon track giving wrong data to ecu We have checked for leaks, and have yet to find one, certainly on the intake side, I guess we can check further on the exhaust side. Here's a question… My catalytic converter has been quite rattly since I have on the car,  at least when the car is called, do you think that could possibly be related? I had ruled that out, because the cat is downstream of the O2 sensor, but I'm sure it serves enough of a purpose where this could be a possibility… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
estland Posted June 4, 2020 Report Share Posted June 4, 2020 On my car, removing the catalytic converter did not affect the o2 sensor. These engines are very sensitive to even small air leaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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